Help in configuring packages?

Vesa P. · 2015-02-21 17:14:18

Hi,

It seems that packages (or groups of packages) often need configuration. For example, I installed KDE by installing a package that depends on it (on purpose), and such a system needs configuration to work.

Is there any standard or typical way of getting help with the initial configuration or package (group)? Or is it just part of the "Arch way" that a lot of efforts goes into digging up those details from forums and other web sites?

Thanks for any hints.

Mr.Elendig · 2015-02-21 17:46:29

You don't have to configure kde, just -Syu one of the kde groups and start it.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/KDE
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/KDE_Packages

mkoskar · 2015-02-21 20:50:50

It seems that packages (or groups of packages) often need configuration.

Almost every software needs a configuration, and usually it has a default one which might work for you.
In any case it's just up to you to figure out how to get most out of it, read manual, understand what it does and configure it to your liking.

Also that is just only way how to learn something and be able to fix possible future problems. If you choose complex program/system you might be "satisfied" until something brakes and then you realize you can't do lot about it since you don't know anything about it. It also comes with security, how can you trust software if you even don't bother to read manual or configuration file? Maybe it opens some ports you would not want to have opened and so on.

Install software you really need and learn about it, if you don't like it, move on to alternative one. You will soon discover that you start to prefer "simple" and lean software.

Or is it just part of the "Arch way" that a lot of efforts goes into digging up those details from forums and other web sites?

That is certainly not the "Arch way". Any time spent in understanding workings of a particular program is well spent (depending of program), because if you understand it you're likely to fix your issue yourself and help others. Following some advices found over on internet without clearly thinking of what is going on doesn't usually lead to better understanding but rather to opposite. Forums and other web sites are the last possible resort, in case you're having problems/issues and similar. Just go and read manual that comes with the software you're installing. Simple as that . And if the manual is missing or not clear, contribute (issue with author, Arch WIKI, etc.).

Vesa P. · 2015-02-21 20:53:18

Just start it, eh? Maybe "configuration" is not the word you'd use but some "arranging" is needed to get the bunch of installed packages work together.

Let me show by example:

When I installed a KDE application, including the KDE, I first tried to find some starting point for the KDE desktop. After finding out that I need to run "mandb" to update the apropos for manual pages I managed to find KDE-related executabled with "man -k kde".
Then I ran kdeinit4, getting errors about DISPLAY variable not being set. After setting the DISPLAY variable I got a complaint no DBUS session-bus had been found.

Having used some dbus-related program to start the dbus daemon and having set the display variable with "export DISPLAY=localhost:0.0", I used "dbus-run-session kdeinit4" to start KDE with a dbus session. With that try, I got error messages with complaints such as

- kdeinit4: Can not connect to the X Server.
- QDBusConnection: session D-Bus connection created before QCoreApplication. Application may misbehave.

Still not working the right way... Looking things further, I discovered that I probably don't have the xserver system installed: No "startx" found, no "xorg", no related man pages. But how can that be? Isn't the X Server a dependency of the KDE desktop? Maybe there is an alternative way to run KDE, using the Wayland system or something.
Anyway, continuing that trial-and-error exercise could take quite a long time, with each error solved opening the way to the next but not necessarily telling much about how the "big picture" should be.

Anyway, that description of my troubles probably makes the point: How to configure or arrange the installed programs to work together. I guess that documentation of that type is included in the installation instructions that come with source code, whereas people using most distros don't need to do configuration at that low a level. But Arch seems to be different: Packages come compiled, yet some low-level configuration also needs to be done.

Any comments, suggestions, please?

Trilby · 2015-02-21 21:05:51

You can't run x11 programs from outside X.

You don't have startx because you didn't install it. Startx is not provided by the xserver package. Had you read even the post-install information linked from the beginner's guide, you would know this.

Vesa P. · 2015-02-21 21:05:56

Thanks mkoskar, I posted the previous one before seeing your message.

OK, so it is about learning... In working with source code I have noticed that studying other people's code so well as to be able to modify it like your own indeed takes work, and from that point of view I understand that it may be a similar thing with configuration.

So, it is part of "The Arch Way" to dig things up from manuals, which may not always be found with the "man" command but e.g. on the website that distributes the software in source. With these concluding remarks, I guess my experiment with Arch Linux is over

Take care,
Vesa

jasonwryan · 2015-02-21 21:08:18

Vesa P. wrote:

So, it is part of "The Arch Way" to dig things up from manuals, which may not always be found with the "man" command but e.g. on the website that distributes the software in source.

Or on the numerous pages on the Arch wiki which you happily ignored.

Raynman · 2015-02-21 21:09:55

Have you managed to install Arch without ever coming across the wiki? Or did you just never think to look for a page about KDE? There's usually something to get you started (stuff other people have learned/dug up from manuals). (And then you can always double-check or dig up more detailed information closer to the upstream source.)

Vesa P. · 2015-02-21 21:31:40

Trilby wrote:

You don't have startx because you didn't install it. Startx is not provided by the xserver package. Had you read even the post-install information linked from the beginner's guide, you would know this.

Umm, by post-install information you probably mean mainly the "General Recommendations" page with its links... It seemed like a more-or-less miscellaneous collection of ideas about what to install. It doesn't convey much about how hard-and-fast the dependency system of the pacman package hierarchy is -- I assumed that the "X stuff" would be marked as dependencies to those that need it. Yet I admit that the page gives overall info about (first) installing the X and then possibly some desktop environment.
So, proceeding slowly and orderly would probably have yielded better outcome than my approach where I primarily wanted to test a distro and a desktop system.

Trilby · 2015-02-21 21:36:23

The "it seemed ..." and the "I assumed ..." imply that you didn't actually read those wiki pages. And if you didn't read them, the fact that they failed to convey the information you needed can hardly be blamed on the wiki pages.

Startx/xinit is not a hard and fast dependency of anything that you have mentioned in this discussion. You do not need startx in order to run X. But you do need startx installed in order to run the startx command. What you are attempting to do simply makes no sense at all. You clearly don't know how the commands you are trying to use actually work.

Vesa P. · 2015-02-21 21:39:08

Raynman wrote:

Have you managed to install Arch without ever coming across the wiki? Or did you just never think to look for a page about KDE? There's usually something to get you started (stuff other people have learned/dug up from manuals). (And then you can always double-check or dig up more detailed information closer to the upstream source.)

I did go through the installation instructions and the more elaborate newbie installation instructions, but it seems that the KDE-specific Archwiki page (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/KDE) was the "missing link", a key page that I missed... Well, I'm glad to find it out late rather than never.

Vesa P. · 2015-02-21 21:46:17

Trilby wrote:

What you are attempting to do simply makes no sense at all. You clearly don't know how the commands you are trying to use actually work.

Come on, let's not be rude But you are right, I have hardly ever started the X system from the command line, so I don't know much about the exact commands even though I have an understanding about the client-server setup that the X Server system is about.

Trilby · 2015-02-21 21:54:31

I'm sorry if you feel my tone has been rude - but quite frankly, you get what you give. We are very open to helping newcomers here regardless of their current state of knowledge provided they are willing to learn, listen, and read. When you come in to a community, ignore the existing documentation, then blame the distro or the tools for failing to work when you use them in ways they were not indended for, then you should not expect a glowingly warm welcome.

And comments like the following don't help your case:

I guess my experiment with Arch Linux is over

If that quote were serious, you would not still be here - but it was not serious; it was the equivalent of a temper tantrum with the hope that someone would bend over backwards to encourage you to stay here. My first thoughts, which I restrained at the time, were to say "good riddance" and close this thread. Note that we have no obligation to you. We don't seek wide acceptance. We are not selling a product. We simply are. We are a community. You are welcome to join, but you are not welcome to abuse.

So please take some time to read up on the wonderful documentation many members of this community have worked very hard to produce. And feel free to ask questions on these forums - we will help if we see you want to learn. But take the time to learn, and post questions with a bit of awareness that this is a community, not a paid service provider.

Arch Linux

#1 2015-02-21 17:14:18

Help in configuring packages?

#2 2015-02-21 17:46:29

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#3 2015-02-21 20:50:50

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#4 2015-02-21 20:53:18

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#5 2015-02-21 21:05:51

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#6 2015-02-21 21:05:56

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#7 2015-02-21 21:08:18

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#8 2015-02-21 21:09:55

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#9 2015-02-21 21:31:40

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#10 2015-02-21 21:36:23

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#11 2015-02-21 21:39:08

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#12 2015-02-21 21:46:17

Re: Help in configuring packages?

#13 2015-02-21 21:54:31

Re: Help in configuring packages?

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