How to actually build a great linux machine? Poor graphics performance

phonky · 2015-03-01 18:17:19

I can't believe I am asking this question myself. I've been using linux since 1996, SuSE version 4.1...And yet I am still not able to put together a well performing machine.

I bought a simple box a few months ago. I am a software developer. I don't need high end graphics nor RAID nor stuff like that. My main goal is to have a fast responsive machine. I installed arch linux on it, and i3 as desktop environment - really it should be quite fast.

And yet...the machine responsiveness is very low, especially graphics lag A LOT. I know I didn't opt for a high end graphics engine - but shouldn't such a modern machine be enough for lag-free youtube and other video watching? Lag-free firefox browsing?

Maybe I just misconfigured my machine, and that's what my question is about. Some hardware info follows below. As you can see, I have a AMD E-350 processor with 8GB-RAM - I should think this would be quite enough for a standard linux installation...

What I also did is, as the MoBo comes with a GPU/processor bundle, I thought that maybe upgrading just the graphics card may have some impact - nope. I bought a AMD HD5450 card with 1GB RAM (!!!) - and still I can't enjoy a fluent video on youtube, nor a sufficient experience web browsing...(maybe it's even better to have the original GPU than the added card I bought?). Of course I know that modern browsers are pretty demanding, but I should think such a machine should be able to handle it?

I read the posts on the arch linux forum about optimizing video, and AMD cards are not very well reviewed really...

There are infinite sites about how to choose your distro, there are hardware compatibility lists - but are there any tutorials or guides which actually help setting up a fast and responsive machine?

* Is my machine maybe badly configured?
* Does it just have a bad hardware set up? Should I maybe replace one or the other piece to cheaply get satisfactory performance?
* Am I just asking too much from my cheap hardware?

I am considering replacing the whole MoBo (I know it was cheap and I shouldn't expect too much from it, but I thought I should be able to tweak it...)

(lshw):

*-memory
          description: System memory
          physical id: 0
          size: 7967MiB
*-cpu
          product: AMD E-350 Processor
          vendor: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD]
          physical id: 1
          bus info: cpu@0
          size: 800MHz
          capacity: 800MHz
          width: 64 bits
          capabilities: fpu fpu_exception wp vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp x86-64 constant_tsc rep_good nopl nonstop_tsc extd_apicid aperfmperf pni monitor ssse3 cx16 popcnt lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch ibs skinit wdt arat hw_pstate npt lbrv svm_lock nrip_save pausefilter vmmcall cpufreq
     *-pci:0
          description: Host bridge
          product: Family 14h Processor Root Complex
          vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD]
          physical id: 100
          bus info: pci@0000:00:00.0
          version: 00
          width: 32 bits
          clock: 66MHz
          configuration: latency=32
        *-pci:0
             description: PCI bridge
             product: Family 14h Processor Root Port
             vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD]
             physical id: 4
             bus info: pci@0000:00:04.0
             version: 00

MoonSwan · 2015-03-01 19:13:56

It may help to know the model and manufacturer of the motherboard. No one can judge your computer's technical aspect without knowing which brand the "brain" is. Have you searched the net for things such as the board's model + linux? I've done that and gotten some startling answers by other users' experiences. Are you using the proprietary drivers for your AMD video card? Apologies if I missed this from your post but it is relevant because the open source AMD/ATI drivers are complete crap.

MS

Morn · 2015-03-01 19:22:41

I think in general low-power AMD CPUs have some major performance issues compared to Intel and are not recommended for desktop use. I use a cheap two-thread Intel Pentium (basically a stripped-down i3) and interactivity is fine. It's also pretty low-power, though not as low-power as the E-350.

Have you tried the AMD Catalyst drivers and tear-free desktop setting?

If general system responsiveness is the issue, perhaps you could try linux-ck with its more desktop-focused scheduler.

But a slow, underpowered CPU is a slow, underpowered CPU, there is no way to fix it with software.

phonky · 2015-03-02 01:40:03

Ok thanks guys, I am starting to realize the whole buy-cheap-then-tweak assumption was wrong, and the CPU/motherboard combination seems to be the bottleneck. I use the open source AMD/ATI drivers. I tried installing the proprietary ones but results were even worse for me - although it could well be that tweaking THOSE might finally bring some relief - but I gave up after a few evenings trying to get them running fine...

I think I need to accept my system as-is or upgrade...

Still, so is there any guide around on how to actually get together an awesome linux machine? No hardware compatibility list nor a "how to choose your distro", but a guide about how to choose your hardware setup?

Alad · 2015-03-02 02:48:13

No hardware compatibility list nor a "how to choose your distro", but a guide about how to choose your hardware setup?

http://www.logicalincrements.com/

perhaps?

Last edited by Alad (2015-03-02 02:48:36)

nullified · 2015-03-02 03:00:28

I browse logical increments often to daydream about dream machines.

Tom's Hardware is a good site that always throws up a few guides. They have a few recent guides with builds for different price ranges.

Morn · 2015-03-02 13:10:42

Just steer clear of cheap AMD CPUs when buying a desktop. Get Intel, a decent mid-range graphics card and sufficient memory.

Awebb · 2015-03-02 13:55:46

If I am not mistaken, the E-350 is equivalent to the Intel Atom D525. I have the D525 and use it in my media center. It performs very well at one task at a time, but dies a horrible death under multi tasking situations like a desktop. I blame browsers. I have a top-end laptop with the second fastest mobile i7 I could buy (in Dec 2014), a Geforce GTX 970m, that shares 6GiB VRAM with the intel 3D chip, and on top of all that 32GiB quality RAM with reasonable latencies. I'd really like to brag, because the thing was insanely expensive, but there are no grounds for bragging. When I open a browser, I still feel like it's 2004, everything is sluggish and slow and websites become more full of crap every day, everything is big and blaoted. The desktop, no matter which one, does not feel the least bit snappier than it used to ten years ago, although the processing power has multiplied. Desktops now have more crappy features, more "connectivity", more need to do everything. The immense availability of fast hardware and fast networks in metropolis of metropolis centered countries creates the illusion of an abundance of everything. And now I'm sitting here and all I want is a low power low cost machine to do every day tasks. While the industry is going on and on about the internet of things, I still wait for the day the internet of people happens.

It's not you. It's like interface designers are trying to mock us. Instead of snappy technology on snappy hardware with snappy code and a snappy workflow, we get "our interface is based on common technologies like HTML and CSS" in the ads for a static local operating system. Nothing ever works. We just had arrived at the following points in tech development:

- Gnome probably had every possible feature on the planet, that made a desktop useful, there were plugins for everything, a setting, a switch.
- Web sites on big screens finally became versatile, feature rich and less static.
- Desktops generally performed very well. Click-Action without a delay.

Then the following happened:

- Gnome 3, new desktop concept, rewrite, all the plugins are gone, I have to re-learn everything from the scratch and, since it was new, I have to re-arrange my workflow.
- Now we are supposed to look at the internet through a <5" screen. If feels like 2001 again, browsers suck, where are my addons, my plugins, my customization?
- Desktops use simple languages, that swallow performance like a maniac.

Of course you cannot really buy classic stuff the way it was, because the consumer marked is trend based, not centered around ergonomics. Another five years from now on:

- Gnome 3 has all the good features and works well for everybody, because there are plugins, custom interfaces and whatnot. But it has to be replaced by Gnome 4, because it does not work well with tactile feedback and bowel movement based controls. Adapting the old system is not possible, let's do it again.
- Mobile browsers are finally comfortable, but we are not supposed to look at the internet at all anymore, information has been simplified to the point, where it is sufficient to put small plugs into our orifices to be informed about everything important by short bursts of vibration and temperature change.
- Desktops had a chance to catch up with the inefficiency of a "if it's not interpreted or byte code, then I don't want it" mentality, but now everything has to be in 3D, projected on thin air with a multi trillion cubic voxel resolution. And everything is slow again.

drcouzelis · 2015-03-02 14:04:32

Waaaaait a minute...

My computer is six years old, I have a cheap AMD CPU, and I have a Radeon HD5450 video card (open source drivers) like the original poster. My computer is AMAZING! It actually makes my sad that it works so darn well because it would be so much fun to upgrade something in it, but, nope, it just just keeps on kicking.

Can you please quantify your experience more?

What is a "well performing machine"?
What is a "fast responsive machine"
Can you please describe "lagging youtube and other video watching and Firefox browsing"?

Is your computer just as "laggy" when you test it out with a live Linux distribution?

EDIT: The smarter people above and below have a better understanding of the problem than I do.

Last edited by drcouzelis (2015-03-02 15:55:46)

aaroncaffrey · 2015-03-02 14:12:01

My computer has even older GPU than yours - integrated (on chip) ati radeon 3000. I can play Red Eclipse and watch youtube videos at 720p without any issues.

Probably you have not installed the proper drivers, will list the drivers for my legacy graphics card:

xf86-video-ati
xorg-server
xorg-server-common
xorg-server-utils
libtxc_dxtn
lib32-libtxc_dxtn
mesa
mesa-libgl
mesa-vdpau
lib32-mesa
lib32-mesa-dri
lib32-mesa-vdpau # accelerated video playback
lib32-mesa-libgl
libxshmfence
lib32-libxshmfence
lib32-libvdpau
libvdpau
lib32-wayland
wayland
libva
libva-mesa-driver

Playing HTML5 720p videos in firefox without any lag:

gst-libav
gst-plugins-base-libs
gst-plugins-good
gstreamer
gstreamer0.10
gstreamer0.10-base

Further tweaks - https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Firefox_tweaks

edit: Basically you have achieved cpu bottleneck and your GPU will die in range of 6 months, and if you game often it will die in range of 1-2 months.
I had radeon 6850, 6870, 6990 while my cpu is amd athlon x3 455 that was causing massive bottlenecks and these GPU's died in range of 2-3 weeks.

Last edited by aaroncaffrey (2015-03-02 14:21:10)

Morn · 2015-03-02 14:42:25

@drcouzelis: Your CPU is a true desktop CPU that consumes 89 W, phonky's low-power E-350 uses only 18 W (http://products.amd.com/%28X%281%29S%28 … eSupport=1). That number alone tells you something about performance.

An E-530 is probably closer to a Raspberry Pi 2 in processing power than your old dual-core Athlon, which in turn would be more similar to my dual-core 65 W 2.7 GHz Pentium.

Last edited by Morn (2015-03-02 14:44:16)

drcouzelis · 2015-03-02 14:57:32

@Morn - Very interesting! Thank you, I didn't know.

Last edited by drcouzelis (2015-03-02 14:58:33)

Morn · 2015-03-02 15:18:19

Maybe the real question is why CPUs intended for netbooks and other portable devices end up in desktops. A desktop is not constrained by battery capacity, so what's the point? You get a bulky desktop that performs like a tablet or crappy netbook; really the worst of both worlds.

poiuyt23 · 2015-03-02 16:33:42

Passmark your CPU before you buy to see what you are really getting - there were probably better choices in the same ballpark for instance:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+E-350.

I could buy a cheap mobo and new athlon processor for ~150 bucks, 4 gig of ram for 50 bucks, and repurpose that vid card and hard drive for free. Wrap it all up in whatever reasonable case is on special and a pretty good power supply for another ~120 and you have a nice machine that will run for a couple years for a little over 300 bucks.
Passmark on the athlon I have in mind:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu … +Radeon+R3

If you go to an i5 intel you'll probably get another couple years out of it for another 150 to 200 bucks - for my money I buy Intel only but the cheap AMD has me looking....

Oh... Don't save the old case and power supply.... it's not worth it. Trust me.

Last edited by poiuyt23 (2015-03-02 16:34:56)

R00KIE · 2015-03-02 18:04:36

I would check with top if you are cpu limited when the machine lags. There is also radeontop [1-2] that _might_ be able to tell you something about the gpu (think of it as top for the radeon gpus).

[1] https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/radeontop/
[2] https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/radeontop-git/

Arch Linux

#1 2015-03-01 18:17:19

How to actually build a great linux machine? Poor graphics performance

#2 2015-03-01 19:13:56

Re: How to actually build a great linux machine? Poor graphics performance

#3 2015-03-01 19:22:41

Re: How to actually build a great linux machine? Poor graphics performance

#4 2015-03-02 01:40:03

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#5 2015-03-02 02:48:13

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#6 2015-03-02 03:00:28

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#7 2015-03-02 13:10:42

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#9 2015-03-02 14:04:32

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#10 2015-03-02 14:12:01

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#11 2015-03-02 14:42:25

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