Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

augustob · 2006-04-05 03:08:41

Hello guys!

I'm a pretty happy Fluxbox user. I have my keybinds, my own custom made theme, a quite long apps file that gets everything going the way I want when I login.

Thing is, I do not use any of the things Flux has that Open doesn't, meaning the toolbar and the dock. Quite honestly, I even turned off the buttons from the titlebar (maximize is Alt+D, close is Alt+F4, why bother clicking? ) I do everything from the keyboard and use Conky for a much better looking clock.

So now that you get what kind of user I am, here's the motivation behind my question: Flux's keygrabber has been locking up on me (and taking away the menu) lately, leaving me with two options: restart X or mash my keyboard until I find a combination that unlocks it and resolves the problem.

So, do I migrate to Openbox? I like the look of it for the following reasons:

- it seems better maintained
- the configuration files seem to make more sense
- it doesn't have anything I don't need (toolbar, dock)
- is EWMH compliant
- has dynamic menus

Do you Openbox users confirm them all? Or should I stay put until either of 'em gets more of an edge over the other? Again, I want a speedy, minimalist and highly configurable mouse driven (no ion and ratpoison, thanks) window manager with sensible defaults (no fvwm, thanks).

Can anybody please help? I tend to obsess over this inane stuff, but I don't want to spend the time migrating my configs to Openbox only to find out it's exactly the same.

ozar · 2006-04-05 03:26:48

Openbox feels faster than Fluxbox to me, but it might not feel that way for you. Why not make a backup of your current FB partitions then play around with OB some? You might find it to your liking.

Mr Green · 2006-04-05 08:20:28

I think Openbox will give you what you need...

If you need any help ley us know ;-)

postlogic · 2006-04-05 10:46:35

Openbox is great for this..

It's simple to set up extra keybindings the way you want it, and you can even remove those window buttons (minimize, close, shade, maximize) if you want.

It has better looking themes, especially if you patch openbox-cvs with splitgradients.diff (I have a PKGBUILD if you want it, drop me a line)

Oh, and no panel.. If you -do- want a panel, pypanel is great.

Your best bet is to just download it, edit .xinitrc/login manager to launch it, edit configs, and then just try it. If you don't like it, go for fluxbox again, you don't have to uninstall anything at all ;-)

Personally, openbox + conky is perfect.

jaboua · 2006-04-05 13:50:01

IMO, fluxbox' menu is easier to edit - but other than that openbox is great. AFAIK, there are no transparency features in menus and borders, background setter or anything like that included but it does it's job - to manage windows. For a background setter you might want to try nitrogen-svn (fbsetbg should work in openbox too though if you keep fluxbox installed). Besides, if you test openbox it won't ruin your fluxbox configuration, so why not

augustob · 2006-04-05 15:47:15

Alright, after the positive responses I gave Openbox a shot. Not expecting much, I copied my key bindings over from fluxbox, I figured that having gmrun as my trusty companion, everything would be fine from there.

First comment: Wow, this really feels snappier. It seems to be a somewhat faster to switch between desktops now. Anyhow, there's probably no way to realistically measure this, so this shouldn't be treated as hard evidence.

I have two and only two problems with Openbox so far:

1) Media keys don't work. Traditionally I use xmodmap to bind them to X86Audio[Play|Stop|Mute], and then Fluxbox to bind them to mpc [toggle|stop] and amixer sset and so on. I've checked xev and the keys are binded fine, what's going on then? I've bound them in my rc.xml as follows:

<keybind key="XF86AudioRaiseVolume">
            <action name="Execute"><execute>amixer sset PCM 1+</execute></action>
        </keybind>
        <keybind key="XF86AudioLowerVolume">
            <action name="Execute"><execute>amixer sset PCM 1-</execute></action>
        </keybind>
        <keybind key="XF86AudioMute">
            <action name="Execute"><execute>amixer sset Master toggle; amixer sset PCM toggle</execute></action>
        </keybind>
        <keybind key="XF86AudioPlay">
            <action name="Execute"><execute>mpc toggle</execute></action>
        </keybind>
        <keybind key="XF86AudioStop">
            <action name="Execute"><execute>mpc stop</execute></action>
        </keybind>
        <keybind key="XF86AudioPrev">
            <action name="Execute"><execute>mpc prev</execute></action>
        </keybind>
        <keybind key="XF86AudioNext">
            <action name="Execute"><execute>mpc next</execute></action>
        </keybind>
        <keybind key="XF86WWW">
            <action name="Execute"><execute>firefox</execute></action>
        </keybind>

2) Startup of programs and automatic placement. When Fluxbox starts it starts 8 copies of urxvtc. 4 in desktop 0, 4 in desk 3. They're placed by the pixel in relation to the corners of the screen. I do this through the apps file like so:

[startup]   {urxvtc}
[app] (urxvtc)
  [Position]    (LOWERRIGHT)    {180 78}
  [Deco]        {TINY}
  [Workspace]   {0}
[end]

Picture 8 of these plus the entries to lauch Firefox and Thunderbird on their desktop, Gaim in another and ncmpc in another. How do I do this in Openbox? I could migrate the actual running of the programs to .xinitrc, but the placement is even more important than starting the applications.

So, to sum it up: help!

babyigor37 · 2006-04-05 17:02:50

1. I have pretty much the same setup in my rc.xml (though I use mpc volume instead of amixer) and everything works fine. I'd check for typos or switch back to the console you ran startx from and see what kind of error messages, if any, openbox is outputting.

2. I don't believe Openbox can do this yet. You might want to try devilspie. It's in the community repo and it can handle your window placement needs, but I'm not so sure about the starting of the apps when you start Openbox.

augustob · 2006-04-05 17:45:32

Wow, I didn't know this devilspie thingie, and it seems to be exactly what I need. Does OpenBox support all the things I can set in it?

This site seems like a pretty good explanation:
http://wiki.foosel.net/linux/devilspie

Question is, is Open + Devilspie still less than Fluxbox?

mcubed · 2006-04-06 01:21:46

These types of suggestions were what I was hoping for here: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=20240

But I only got one response. :cry:

Stuff like conky, pypanel, devils pie -- and more general tips & tricks type of information for people who don't want to run Gnome/KDE/XFCE -- where's there a good resource for finding all this? Is there one? Could there be a wiki section on 'helpful tools for WMs' or something like that?

I'm floundering here! :?

babyigor37 · 2006-04-06 02:23:07

mcubed, have you checked the Light & Fast Applications thread? It's basically a thread filled with Arch users listing their favourite apps that don't depend on KDE/Gnome type stuff. I suppose the downside to running a fairly minimal WM instead of a desktop environment is that you kinda have to take some figure out what apps and configurations you need to get everything up and running smoothly.

augustob, when I used devilspie, I never had any problems getting it to work with openbox, although I found that I really didn't need it all that much. But I tend to open apps as a need them and I keep more desktops than I'll every actually use, so autostarting apps and placing them in certain places really doesn't concern me all that much. And with openbox's keybinding and window movement commands, I can easily place any window where it needs to go.

augustob · 2006-04-06 03:27:27

I'm slowly getting Openbox to the point I have Flux working for me, and yes, I can do all those things with Devil's Pie (more, even).

I'll be sure to post a full trip report when I'm done. 8)

mcubed · 2006-04-06 04:14:02

babyigor37 wrote:

mcubed, have you checked the Light & Fast Applications thread?

No. Thanks for pointing it out. I have been browsing through the boards, but it's so easy to miss stuff that way. That's why I thought a wiki page would be really useful.

babyigor37 wrote:

I suppose the downside to running a fairly minimal WM instead of a desktop environment is that you kinda have to take some figure out what apps and configurations you need to get everything up and running smoothly.

I don't know if I'd call it a downside, exactly -- I enjoy trying out different things and figuring out what's useful and fun, what's useless and fun, and what's just useless. But it would be nice to have a better idea about what's out there. Sometimes you don't know you need something until you read about it somewhere, and for relatively new users -- of Arch or of Linux in general -- it's hard to get a sense of the possibilities from random threads on various message boards. Most of the newbie-oriented stuff is geared to Gnome or KDE, since those are most comparable to Windows and I guess that's what people want.

Mr Green · 2006-04-08 08:57:35

augustob wrote:

<keybind key="XF86AudioRaiseVolume">
            <action name="Execute"><execute>amixer sset PCM 1+</execute></action>
        </keybind>

So, to sum it up: help!

I'll check this out get back to you it looks ok .... I just use xev to get keycodes then bind them in .xmodmap (ie F31 = 235 etc...)

Bjoern · 2006-04-11 19:49:02

Thankyou for this thread! I didn't have much to do today, and after reading this...I switched to Openbox.

augustob · 2006-04-12 01:30:07

Yeah, uh, update on my situation:

- Got the media keys to work, I was working with two Xs and I guess the keys are bound to the first one, so the second X with Openbox didn't get to treat them or something.
- Devilspie is pretty nice, but Fluxbox's apps file is still better. For example: say I have the following rules in Devilspie and Flux, respectively:

(if (is (application_name) "gaim") (set_workspace 3))

[app] (gaim)
  [Workspace]   {2}
[end]

Now, imagine I have the contact list open, but the IM window is closed. Someone IMs me. With Open+Devilspie, the IM window will flicker like a motherfucker before being sent to desktop 2, and I'll be cursing like a sailor that my concentration was broken, and proceed to unreasonably shower the poor person that IMed me with expletives. Flux won't even let me know someone sent a message if I don't check desktop 2 to find a window waiting for me.

That's a Devilspie issue, not a Flux issue, but since I have no other choice with which to handle window placement, that rules out Openbox for me. I'll me waiting like a giddy 6 year old in christmas eve for when they implement window placement, though, as that will send Fluxbox out the window so fast it's not even funny.

Things I loved about Openbox in the day I used it:
- It is snappier. I can't prove it in any objective or scientific way, but it does feel faster;
- Window resizing. After I configured "alt+right click inside window frame" action (it defaults to an unnaceptable "open menu". Someone needs to get shot for that) to a smarter "resize window", I realized that the region in which I right-clicked the window to resize it changed the way Openbox handled the resizing. Clicking the lower middle resizes it vertically, clicking the lower right corner resizes it diagonally, but fixes the upper left one. It's one hell of a smart feature that Fluxbox should rip right off of Openbox.
- The userbase isn't blind. Goddamnit, every single fluxbox theme on freshmeat looks like crap. Also, I'd never consider using one of the included themes. Openbox, on the other hand, has some pretty unobtrusive default themes and from some new screenies (with the split gradient patch) can be made to look pretty awesome. Of course Fluxbox has kickass themes, I'm just saying they're harder to find.

So, yeah.

Arch Linux

#1 2006-04-05 03:08:41

Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#2 2006-04-05 03:26:48

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#3 2006-04-05 08:20:28

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#4 2006-04-05 10:46:35

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#5 2006-04-05 13:50:01

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#6 2006-04-05 15:47:15

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#7 2006-04-05 17:02:50

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#8 2006-04-05 17:45:32

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#9 2006-04-06 01:21:46

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#10 2006-04-06 02:23:07

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#11 2006-04-06 03:27:27

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#12 2006-04-06 04:14:02

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#13 2006-04-08 08:57:35

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#14 2006-04-11 19:49:02

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

#15 2006-04-12 01:30:07

Re: Migrating to Openbox from Flux; Should I bother?

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