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#1 2015-11-22 15:27:16

AgniPath
Member
Registered: 2015-11-22
Posts: 6

pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

Bored with Debian testing/unstable, so I want to install arch linux. But my main problem is currently living with a costly internet. After reading many arch wiki articles, It is almost necessary to run pacman -Syu before installing anything.

So how frequently archlinux packages are updated ?  Are they updated unnecessarily everyday like debian unstable/testing ?
How much internet (in MB) required to do a pacman -Syu for a very basic system ? ( core + Xorg + Openbox + some basic utilities )

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#2 2015-11-22 16:07:07

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 29,441
Website

Re: pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

AgniPath wrote:

So how frequently archlinux packages are updated ?  Are they updated unnecessarily everyday like debian unstable/testing?

They are updated when there are updates.  This primarily depends on upstream sources.  But you'd never get an "unnecessary" update.  I have no idea what this means in the context of Debian, but pacman will never download the same package you already have installed (unless you specifically request it due to a suspected corrupt previous download).

The size of the download depends on when you last updated.  Some people with metered downloads think updating less frequently saves them some data - but this makes no sense at all.  If you run `pacman -Syu` every day, some days nothing at all will be downloaded - except for the sync database as needed (~4MB total).  If a big package was updated, then you'll also download that package - but you would need to do just once whether you update daily, weekly, or monthly.  If you update more frequently, any individual download will remain relatively small.


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#3 2015-11-22 18:11:33

pypi
Wiki Maintainer
Registered: 2014-04-22
Posts: 250

Re: pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

Trilby wrote:

The size of the download depends on when you last updated.  Some people with metered downloads think updating less frequently saves them some data - but this makes no sense at all.  If you run `pacman -Syu` every day, some days nothing at all will be downloaded - except for the sync database as needed (~4MB total).  If a big package was updated, then you'll also download that package - but you would need to do just once whether you update daily, weekly, or monthly.  If you update more frequently, any individual download will remain relatively small.

It does make some sense; if they don't update very frequently at all, they might skip some package updates (hence not having to download them). For instance, if chromium went 1->2->3 during the interval between updates, then they would skip version 2, saving bandwidth.
Most things don't get updated frequently enough for that to matter much, IMO. Using pacman's delta setting is probably a better start...

@AgniPath: I update fairly frequently. Without keeping an exact track, I'd say I generally only download ~100MB per update, most days quite a bit less, sometimes more (new chromium release...).
Yes, running pacman -Syu before installing stuff is a good idea, but who installs new packages that frequently anyway? I definitely don't...
Once a month is probably closer to the maximum advised wait between updates, though I don't think I've ever seen an exact figure quoted.
The updates page will give you an idea of how frequently packages are updated; at least one package on my system was last rebuilt in 2013!

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#4 2015-11-22 18:18:39

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 29,441
Website

Re: pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

pypi wrote:

It does make some sense; if they don't update very frequently at all, they might skip some package updates (hence not having to download them). For instance, if chromium went 1->2->3 during the interval between updates, then they would skip version 2, saving bandwidth.

I stand corrected.  You are right on that.

However, I would still be skeptical whether these critieria would be met for too many upgrades under any reasonable update schedule - I suspect the savings in downloads would be quite small unless one were to update so infrequently as to make it challenging / risky to do so.  With very few exceptions I doubt the difference between daily and weekly updates would be impacted by such skipping of intermediate versions.  The difference between daily and monthly probably could be, but a monthly update schedule is probably at the longest end of what would be advisable for archlinux.

If the data cap is such that one cannot update regularly, then a full-rolling release like arch is probably not a good idea.


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#5 2015-11-22 18:58:41

circleface
Member
Registered: 2012-05-26
Posts: 639

Re: pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

I run a similar system,  just Openbox and some basic utilities.  I update every day, and the update is usually around 10 MB a day.  New kernels, and new firefoxes are the largest updates I generally have to deal with.  Kernel is about 60 MB and firefox is about 50 MB.  But those updates certainly don't happen every day.

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#6 2015-11-23 02:50:22

eschwartz
Fellow
Registered: 2014-08-08
Posts: 4,097

Re: pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

There is only one rule: never update the sync database and then install/update partially.

If you don't update the database, but install a new program, you will still be working with a consistent repo state. If the package has updated and that version is no longer available, oh well, the worst that happens is that installing fails and you will then have to do a `pacman -Syu`. smile

For added security: you could use the Arch Linux Archive to make sure everything is still available at your chosen stage, e.g. use the "week" or "month" repo.

...

That being said, as mentioned above updates  that you could safely skip and thus preserve bandwidth are probably not significant enough to seriously worry about (especially if you use a delta repository). And the rest will eventually be needed anyway.
.


Managing AUR repos The Right Way -- aurpublish (now a standalone tool)

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#7 2015-11-23 03:36:19

AgniPath
Member
Registered: 2015-11-22
Posts: 6

Re: pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

Thanks to everyone, finally I'm shifting to Arch Linux smile .

So my final setup: update frequently, use linux-lts, skip some kernel updates, use precompiled binaries of big software like Firefox, VLC etc.

Last edited by AgniPath (2015-11-23 03:37:54)

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#8 2015-11-23 16:49:11

Slithery
Administrator
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: 2013-12-01
Posts: 5,776

Re: pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

AgniPath wrote:

...use precompiled binaries of big software like Firefox, VLC etc.

All software in the Arch repositories is precompiled (if it needs compiling).


No, it didn't "fix" anything. It just shifted the brokeness one space to the right. - jasonwryan
Closing -- for deletion; Banning -- for muppetry. - jasonwryan

aur - dotfiles

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#9 2015-11-24 04:24:09

AgniPath
Member
Registered: 2015-11-22
Posts: 6

Re: pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

@ slithery ,, thanks for your answer.

I know this fact about Arch Linux, that why I'm here, not in the Gentoo forum.

Precompiled  binaries>  I mean download the firefox tar.bz2 archive from mozilla site, use statically linked  (though not truly statically linked) VLC , ffmpeg, LibreOffice etc. etc. .

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#10 2015-11-24 04:43:35

eschwartz
Fellow
Registered: 2014-08-08
Posts: 4,097

Re: pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

vlc is on its 9th rebuild because of updated soname deps, but that's only four times since June, so not really a burden.
Most updated firefox packages are upstream releases.

I question how much bandwidth you will save.


Managing AUR repos The Right Way -- aurpublish (now a standalone tool)

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#11 2015-11-24 16:01:23

AgniPath
Member
Registered: 2015-11-22
Posts: 6

Re: pakage update interval and internet bandwidth requirement

@ Eschwartz
I question how much bandwidth you will save ?

yes I save a lot, the idea is to use portable apps, though they are somewhat old. I copy them to a tmpfs mounted folder at startup and they starts amazingly fast !

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