[SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

VinceNardelli · 2017-10-07 18:17:27

Hello guys,

I seem to be bumping into this annoying problem.
If I try to

Pacman -Syu

to upgrade my system nothing happens.

I am forced to do

Pacman -Syyu

Any reason for that?

Last edited by VinceNardelli (2017-10-08 17:43:20)

Slithery · 2017-10-07 18:28:14

Have you read what the pacman flags actually do?
Nothing you have described is unexpected behaviour.

Also please read the forum Code of Conduct, especially...
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Co … s_and_code

Last edited by Slithery (2017-10-07 18:28:45)

jasonwryan · 2017-10-07 18:30:09

Not a Pacman issue, moving to NC...

Xyne · 2017-10-07 19:41:45

One refresh argument (-y) instructs pacman to ask the server if it has new database files (compared to the local ones). If the server incorrectly reports that it doesn't, then pacman calls it a day and heads home with a curry to watch reruns of Dropbear Valley: In The Shadow Of Death. Two refresh arguments (-yy) tells pacman to retrieve the database files like they were money owed by the server, regardless of the modification time it reports.

If -y does nothing but -yy leads to a system update, then the server is an untrustworthy liar and you should change mirrors and shame it.

VinceNardelli · 2017-10-07 23:17:40

Xyne wrote:

If -y does nothing but -yy leads to a system update, then the server is an untrustworthy liar and you should change mirrors and shame it.

I see, so it is just a mirrorlist not up to the task and misleads my system into thinking that everything is up-to-date when it is not. I will sort it.
But just for the records, having to force the update by -yy is not the end of the world and it would produce the mere same results. Correct?

Trilby · 2017-10-07 23:21:50

You did see the "if" in the sentence you quoted, didn't you? The excerpt you posted in your first post does not meet the conditions of that if statement - therefore you have no reason to suspect your mirror is not trustworthy. You definitely do not need to force the update of the database files as you are doing.

However, it will lead to the same results for you. It is, however, a pointless drain on the mirror's bandwidth. While a single user using -yy when there is no need to will not really be a notable inconvenience for anyone else, it would be if many users did. Nonetheless, you get absolutely no benefit out of it - so don't do it.

loqs · 2017-10-07 23:23:52

In the oversized image you posted of text both pacman invocations generated the output "there is nothing to do" so how did you conclude there was an issue with the mirror you used?

Xyne · 2017-10-08 00:14:34

VinceNardelli wrote:

Xyne wrote:
If -y does nothing but -yy leads to a system update, then the server is an untrustworthy liar and you should change mirrors and shame it.
I see, so it is just a mirrorlist not up to the task and misleads my system into thinking that everything is up-to-date when it is not. I will sort it.
But just for the records, having to force the update by -yy is not the end of the world and it would produce the mere same results. Correct?

There seems to be some confusion about what pacman does. Please take some time to familiarize yourself with pacman and how it works by reading the man and wiki pages.

An upgrade is the replacement of installed packages with successor packages. Most of the time these are newer upstream versions of whatever you have installed. Sometimes they are rebuilds of the same upstream version of a package. Sometimes they are replacements due to a package being renamed or deprecated. Regardless, a local package is replaced by a new package.

A refresh is an update of the database files. The database files contain all of the metadata needed to install packages. Whenever a new package is added to the repos, the database is updated to include it (and remove old packages).

"pacman -Syu" refreshes the database files if there are new database files on the server, and performs an upgrade if there are new packages for your system.

"Are there any new database files?"
no: "Ok, nothing to do."
yes: "Ok, let me download that and see what's new."

"Are there any new packages for my system in the new database?"
no: "Ok, nothing to do."
yes: "Ok, let me download the packages and install them."

"pacman -Syyu" is only ever needed when the server fails to report newer database files (which can happen if the local database files' modification times have been altered. or if the server is misconfigured or nonconformant). Instead of asking if there are new files, it says "just give me whatever you have, I don't care if I already have the same file". This is almost never necessary. Regularly running "pacman -Syyu" forces pacman to download redundant files and waste the server's bandwith.

So, if "pacman -Syu" reports nothing to do and "pacman -Syyu" reports new packages to upgrade and you haven't messed with the local database modification times and the server doesn't happen to update the database files in the narrow window between the commands then the mirror is misconfigured. In that case, you should switch to a differerent mirror.

VinceNardelli wrote:

so it is just a mirrorlist not up to the task

The mirrorlist doesn't "do" anything. It's just a list of mirrors to try. If pacman fails to connect to a mirror or retrieve a file then it will try the next uncommented mirror in the list. However, if the server simply reports that there is nothing new to download, then it doesn't check the other mirrors. It's up to you to select your main mirror and eventual fallback mirrors by uncommented them in the mirrorlist and arranging them in your order of preference (reliability/trustworthyness/geographical location/speed/anagrams of the domain name/phase of the moon/whatever).

VinceNardelli · 2017-10-08 17:42:48

Today I try and update my system with -Syu and it found the packages to update. Just to check I did the same with -Syyu and the same result popped.

At this point I can conclude that the -Syu is necessary to update. Somehow, it will just show it differently on the terminal, leaving the progression bars to zero as shown above.

Thanks for the clarification and I will edit the post to [SOLVED].

Cheers

Scimmia · 2017-10-08 18:03:15

"As shown above" just shows that your databases were already up to date and didn't need to be re-downloaded. There's no mystery there.

Arch Linux

#1 2017-10-07 18:17:27

[SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

#2 2017-10-07 18:28:14

Re: [SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

#3 2017-10-07 18:30:09

Re: [SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

#4 2017-10-07 19:41:45

Re: [SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

#5 2017-10-07 23:17:40

Re: [SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

#6 2017-10-07 23:21:50

Re: [SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

#7 2017-10-07 23:23:52

Re: [SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

#8 2017-10-08 00:14:34

Re: [SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

#9 2017-10-08 17:42:48

Re: [SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

#10 2017-10-08 18:03:15

Re: [SOLVED] Cannot pacman -Syu | Forced to -Syyu

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