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#1 2017-10-12 08:53:08

Torxed
Member
Registered: 2013-01-10
Posts: 148

Packages / AUR site, download dependencies

It's not often, but it do happen from time to time that I have a machine without access to the internet.
And all I have is some mates laptop or phone, and I really need a certain package (dhclient instead of dhcpcd, wget, python, or w/e).

Getting the package that i need is easy, I just hit "download snapshot" and I'm set... Almost.
There's really no way in hell to download all the hundreds of dependencies for certain packages and it's a real PITA. Especially in this day and age where this idea of package management has been around for literally decades.

Would it be possible to add a "download dependencies snapshot"?
Technically this shouldn't be an issue, I do however recognize the time it would take to get something like this in place.
Essentially a `pacman -Suw <main package> | xargs tar -cf main_package_deps.tar` but via a web-link.

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#2 2017-10-12 11:09:43

V1del
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Registered: 2012-10-16
Posts: 2,894

Re: Packages / AUR site, download dependencies

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#3 2017-10-12 12:21:57

Torxed
Member
Registered: 2013-01-10
Posts: 148

Re: Packages / AUR site, download dependencies

Well aware, again, this requires a running Arch instance to do these steps.
Being able to do it from Packages would mean that you could grab a package and it's dependencies without having access to Arch.

A scenario where you have:

* A Windows machine
* A Arch machine
* A WiFi in the air

but you forgot to install dialog for wifi-menu on your arch machine.. you could grab that single package via your windows machine, and hope that you have everything else. But supposed you don't, then you need to download all it's dependencies. That being ncurses, gcc-libs, glibc.. and so on and so on.<br>
If your life depends on it, you'll click through https://archlinux.org/packages and you'll do the manual work.

But wouldn't it be a improvement to be able to offer a download+deps as well?
Again, it happens rarely for me.. but often enough that it bugs the *** out of me at times.

Last edited by Torxed (2017-10-12 12:23:46)

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#4 2017-10-12 12:48:00

WorMzy
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From: Scotland
Registered: 2010-06-16
Posts: 7,283
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Re: Packages / AUR site, download dependencies

Arch really isn't built for this sort of scenario. If you don't have a reliable internet connection on your Arch box (either from the installed Arch system, or from a liveCD of Arch), then you probably shouldn't be using Arch. Grabbing packages from the web interface and installing them on your disconnected Arch box runs the risk of partial upgrades. You could mostly avoid this by using a snapshot from the day of your installation on the ArchLinuxArchive for all your package grabbing, but it doesn't eliminate the risk 100%.

To my mind, a depbundle as you describe option would be very open to abuse. It would require a lot of processing power to tar up all the dependencies of some packages. For example, the dolphin file manager has 318 packages in it's dependency chain according to pactree, how long do you think it would take to generate a depbundle for that? What if 10 people tried to generate one simultaneously?


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#5 2017-10-12 13:00:24

Torxed
Member
Registered: 2013-01-10
Posts: 148

Re: Packages / AUR site, download dependencies

WorMzy wrote:

Arch really isn't built for this sort of scenario. If you don't have a reliable internet connection on your Arch box (either from the installed Arch system, or from a liveCD of Arch), then you probably shouldn't be using Arch. Grabbing packages from the web interface and installing them on your disconnected Arch box runs the risk of partial upgrades. You could mostly avoid this by using a snapshot from the day of your installation on the ArchLinuxArchive for all your package grabbing, but it doesn't eliminate the risk 100%.

To my mind, a depbundle as you describe option would be very open to abuse. It would require a lot of processing power to tar up all the dependencies of some packages. For example, the dolphin file manager has 318 packages in it's dependency chain according to pactree, how long do you think it would take to generate a depbundle for that? What if 10 people tried to generate one simultaneously?

As mentioned, I see the technical challenge and a `.tar` pipe was just a example of what needed to be done.
Obviously that would be prone to abuse, but you could just as easily just create a table of dependencies that the user could click through, even that would be a huge improvement to today's method of grabbing packages one by one.

I know Arch isn't built for this scenario, but it isn't built to NOT do it support it either. Arch has all the prerequisites for it and as you pointed out - not many scenarios requires this. Ergo it's a addon to the normal way of operations. It doesn't break anything and it doesn't generate a huge overhead in traffic if you plan/implement it carefully.

All it does, would be to add user experience and flexibility to those in need.

Regarding the risk of partial upgrades is something you are aware of all the time running a rolling release OS.
I've had it happen several times where a mirror is part way through a file upgrade and I install one package that is upgraded and another is about to but I fetched packages in between.
And again, this is as both you and I pointed out - not a normal scenario. But if you're on a train and your life depends on it.. Maybe you don't care if a few files get partially upgraded because it doesn't worsen your situation.. At least it's a attempt of solving it.
(Again, overdramatized scenario.. It's what poped up in my head from previous experiences. And it doesn't have to be network related, could be libreoffice or w/e)

Last edited by Torxed (2017-10-12 13:03:44)

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#6 2017-10-12 16:02:22

progandy
Member
Registered: 2012-05-17
Posts: 2,359

Re: Packages / AUR site, download dependencies

You can get the URLs for a package and all missing dependencies on your arch machine with.

pacman -Sp PACKAGE

You get even the versions that match your current database and the download URL. If these are older versions the URL won't work anymore and you'll have to find it in the archlinux archive.

Since you have a way to copy packages to the arch machine you also have a way to copy the URL list to your other computer.

Last edited by progandy (2017-10-12 16:04:55)

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