Arch Linux

desertViking

Member

From: Arizona

Registered: 2005-10-30

Posts: 170

Tough Install from 0.7.2

Ok, I'm sure that I'm not a guru.  But, I've installed Arch plenty of times, all before 0.7.2.  I also know that I'm lazy.  I am not yet well enough versed to select which modules I need from a fresh install. 
Last night, I configured a ThinkPad A31 with a LinkSys wireless card (don't ask but thank-you very much for the TI acx packages in unstable), and I had a really difficult time.
As I noted before, I'm lazy, so after using autoconfigure to partion my drive, I installed everything from the ISO.  I found several incompatibilities that would not allow the pacman upgrade to continue:
1) disable PCMCI from daemon
2) disable hotplug from system
3) disable xf86-video-via from ?
4) disable ethiopics (?) fonts
Each of these had to be discovered indepentantly. One time, the installation errors came at the end of a very long sequence (the ethiopics font install I think), and I didn't scan to the end.  I thought everything had gone ok, so I tried to install the kernel and bootloader.  *That* was a mess.
I figured it out on the next go, but it was a pain to try to remember which modules or files needed to be excluded.
Ok, after a couple of hours I made it through that.
At some point, I can't be absolutely sure I didn't screw this up, I could swear that I allowed the installation procedure to to an autoconfigure of the hard drive.  During this instance, I got a kernel panic.  It looked to me that the default configuration of one of the partitions wasn't included by default in the kernel.  I don't know that for sure, so take that with a grain of salt.
Well, I'm up and going now.  Things are looking pretty good, but I have to tell you that if I was a new user, I would have been a little discouraged by my initial impression of a new install from 0.7.2.
What I would suggest is that before the next release goes public, we each try some newbie installations to see if something obvious has been missing.  It seems to me that with a few burs knocked off, this would have gone much smoother.
Please understand that I am an Arch fan and advocate.  I want the system to be slick and clean so more people will come and enjoy!
[pulling flame suit on now]

---

"In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is."

Bysshe

Member

Registered: 2004-12-10

Posts: 271

Re: Tough Install from 0.7.2

Ah, but to me, it's part of the charm.  It's not near as bad as trying to upgrade the system from the 0.7.0 iso.    If you want that perspective, I can tell you.  Just cut your arm off and beat yourself in the head with it.  Same thing.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a new install .iso release in the next couple months at the very most.  Maybe sooner than later? 

But, like I was saying, it doesn't sound too bad, and I'm sure they're always thinking of ways to improve things.   There's been alot of heavy changes this year, and there's been some funky bugs with some critical packages, I think, too.  Not so much the fault of Arch.  But this is why some people don't like the bleeding edge approach.  Arch comes with a few more sacrifices than others, sometimes, I guess.  Alot of your aggrivation, I'm sure, can be attributed to the new packages themselves.  Gimmick has been out long enough so that practically every package on it is obsolete, and then some.  So, I don't know what good a newbie install when the new ISO comes out will be.  It's when that ISO ages that newbies will start banging their heads more.

Anyway, I won't be able to participate in a newbie install.  I'll be down to one hard drive by the time the next release hits the torrent.  But I'll look into an Ebay drive periodically, maybe I'll get my hands on one reasonably.  Probably gonna go for another SCSI drive so I can claim that side of the annoying thorn in the devs sides.  HA!

McQueen

Member

From: Arizona

Registered: 2006-03-20

Posts: 387

Re: Tough Install from 0.7.2

Things are looking pretty good, but I have to tell you that if I was a new user, I would have been a little discouraged by my initial impression of a new install from 0.7.2.

Well, Arch advances very quickly but historically the InstallCD's don't match that pace very closely. It can definitely promote a greater workload on the user when attempting to get their system current from the latest ISO. Hopefully, once the Archie LiveCD is officially re-released with a HD installer it will be easier to maintain with more frequent releases. Otherwise, I really don't see a way under the current methodology to adequately address this issue.

---

/path/to/Truth

Gullible Jones

Member

Registered: 2004-12-29

Posts: 4,863

Re: Tough Install from 0.7.2

Well, there's always the FTP install...

desertViking

Member

From: Arizona

Registered: 2005-10-30

Posts: 170

Re: Tough Install from 0.7.2

Good points, all. 

My observations are coming from the point of view of one who really enjoys the distribution.  The experience came while trying to teach someone else how to install and enjoy it as well. 

Maybe we could have an install party when the ISO gets ready to be posted.    The thought isn't to try every single configuration, that would be tough, but just run down the middle of the defaults to make sure people can stumble into an installation likely to work.

I'd be willing to do it (will work for beer).

BTW, i'ts really humming along now!  Well worth the effort.

---

"In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is."

Bysshe

Member

Registered: 2004-12-10

Posts: 271

Re: Tough Install from 0.7.2

Ha, ha.  What a letdown that must have felt like.  I do these things behind closed doors, with nobody watching.  Arch install isn't the easiest thing in the world sometimes. 

But I'm with Gullible Jones.  The likeliest way to get up and running with practically no stumbling is through the FTP install.

As far as the unknown cause of the kernel panic, that was almost for sure a result of a newer kernel, and its combined new startup script.   I don't think Gimmick uses it, and upgrading to it can really break your balls if you don't look out.   

But I think it's this way to still allow the option to use the old startup script (if you regenerate it for the new kernel with the old tool).   So you have to pay close attention to configuration when upgrading.   I believe your comp tried to use the old initrd line though the mkinitcpio generator ran with the new kernel.  I think it probably started working when you changed the image file's name from initrd26.img to kernel26.img in /boot/grub/menu.lst.  The kernel26.img was generated by mkinitcpio.

desertViking

Member

From: Arizona

Registered: 2005-10-30

Posts: 170

Re: Tough Install from 0.7.2

<LOL>  Maybe I should dim the lights before installing next time, too ;->

FTP is a good idea, but it assume you've got network access.  Most of the time when I'm doing these laptops, I just install from the disk.  Tinkering and compiling madwifi or ndiswrapper is usually required, so I need to have access to some of the developers stuff and libraries.  I'm not always certain which.

Then, once you get some network access, all things are possible.  I'd actually like to see ndiswrapper, madwifi and possibly tiacx packages available from the installation disk.  Would have a fighting chance once the installation was booting regularly.

The way I do things is certainly not the way you'd expect a newbie to begin, however, so take those observations with a grain of salt.

I'm just saying that FTP may not be down the center of the path.  Most people would expect default configurations and choices to work out of the box.  (my 2c, and worth probably half of that :-)

---

"In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is."

Bysshe

Member

Registered: 2004-12-10

Posts: 271

Re: Tough Install from 0.7.2

<LOL>  Maybe I should dim the lights before installing next time, too ;->

FTP is a good idea, but it assume you've got network access.  Most of the time when I'm doing these laptops, I just install from the disk.  Tinkering and compiling madwifi or ndiswrapper is usually required, so I need to have access to some of the developers stuff and libraries.  I'm not always certain which.

Then, once you get some network access, all things are possible.  I'd actually like to see ndiswrapper, madwifi and possibly tiacx packages available from the installation disk.  Would have a fighting chance once the installation was booting regularly.

The way I do things is certainly not the way you'd expect a newbie to begin, however, so take those observations with a grain of salt.

I'm just saying that FTP may not be down the center of the path.  Most people would expect default configurations and choices to work out of the box.  (my 2c, and worth probably half of that :-)

I understand, somewhat, where you're coming from. 8)