[UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

0BADC0DE · 2018-02-21 06:58:28

The command lsusb from the usbutils doesn't recognize a few USB devices.
This is due to the age of the file /usr/share/hwdata/usb.ids coming from core/hwids.
As I have udate-pciids I was expecting to also have from some package 'update-usbids'.
But neither it's there, nor 'pkgfile update-usbids' yields an answer.
Any hint?

TALIA!

Spoiler: YOU CANNOT and NONE KNOWS!

Last edited by 0BADC0DE (2018-11-28 08:15:26)

nickyamane · 2018-02-21 07:02:48

I suppose that file is updated via Pacman (since it's part of core/hwids package.

Have you done a full upgrade (pacman -Syu) recently?

nickyamane · 2018-02-21 07:05:26

What's the exact output of lsusb? Also, check the system log when you plug the device (journalctl --system --follow) and paste it here, please.

Last edited by nickyamane (2018-02-21 07:05:57)

0BADC0DE · 2018-02-21 07:19:26

nickyamane wrote:

I suppose that file is updated via Pacman (since it's part of core/hwids package.
Have you done a full upgrade (pacman -Syu) recently?

Yes, once a day.
As there's a 'update-pciids' I somehow expect also and 'update-usbids' also because all other distros I have tested have it.

Last edited by 0BADC0DE (2018-02-21 07:22:58)

0BADC0DE · 2018-02-21 07:22:02

nickyamane wrote:

What's the exact output of lsusb? Also, check the system log when you plug the device (journalctl --system --follow) and paste it here, please.

My question is about updating the usb.ids file, not the lsusb usage.
Anyway:

...
Bus 003 Device 015: ID e0b6:0811
...

On other platforms I have an explicit program/cript to check and update for new IDs, just like update-pciids does for PCI IDs.

nickyamane · 2018-02-21 07:46:57

0BADC0DE wrote:

nickyamane wrote:
What's the exact output of lsusb? Also, check the system log when you plug the device (journalctl --system --follow) and paste it here, please.
My question is about updating the usb.ids file, not the lsusb usage.
Anyway:
...
Bus 003 Device 015: ID e0b6:0811
...
On other platforms I have an explicit program/cript to check and update for new IDs, just like update-pciids does for PCI IDs.

Ok.
hwids package refers to https://github.com/gentoo/hwids as upstream project, which is not updated for the last 5 months. Maybe it's a good idea to report this issue upstream.

Last edited by nickyamane (2018-02-21 07:47:31)

0BADC0DE · 2018-02-21 07:50:41

nickyamane wrote:

0BADC0DE wrote:
nickyamane wrote:
What's the exact output of lsusb? Also, check the system log when you plug the device (journalctl --system --follow) and paste it here, please.
My question is about updating the usb.ids file, not the lsusb usage.
Anyway:
...
Bus 003 Device 015: ID e0b6:0811
...
On other platforms I have an explicit program/cript to check and update for new IDs, just like update-pciids does for PCI IDs.
Ok.
hwids package refers to https://github.com/gentoo/hwids as upstream project, which is not updated for the last 5 months. Maybe it's a good idea to report this issue upstream.

Hmmm... this is not a convincing answer to me.
The program update-pciids belongs to the package core/pciutils.
The files pci.ids and usb.ids belong to the package core/hwids.
The program update-usbids doesn't belong to any package, not even core/usbutils.
Where is the update-usbids program? Has it got lost with the latest package update?

Last edited by 0BADC0DE (2018-02-21 08:03:28)

nickyamane · 2018-02-21 08:03:09

It should be here https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/usbutils

0BADC0DE · 2018-02-21 08:06:13

nickyamane wrote:

It should be here https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/usbutils

No, it's not in there either.

[support@Feynman ~] pacman -Q usbutils
usbutils 009-1
[support@Feynman ~] pkgfile -l usbutils
core/usbutils   /usr/
core/usbutils   /usr/bin/
core/usbutils   /usr/bin/lsusb
core/usbutils   /usr/bin/lsusb.py
core/usbutils   /usr/bin/usb-devices
core/usbutils   /usr/bin/usbhid-dump
core/usbutils   /usr/lib/
core/usbutils   /usr/lib/pkgconfig/
core/usbutils   /usr/lib/pkgconfig/usbutils.pc
core/usbutils   /usr/share/
core/usbutils   /usr/share/man/
core/usbutils   /usr/share/man/man1/
core/usbutils   /usr/share/man/man1/usb-devices.1.gz
core/usbutils   /usr/share/man/man8/
core/usbutils   /usr/share/man/man8/lsusb.8.gz
core/usbutils   /usr/share/man/man8/usbhid-dump.8.gz

It's nowhere and I don't know how to search within the AUR.

[support@Feynman ~] pkgfile update-usbids

nickyamane · 2018-02-21 08:25:50

This old redhat thread gives some reasons why such a script been included into the packages (probably the same reason why it's not in Arch package as well)

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466041

More info:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/question … 175588547/

Last edited by nickyamane (2018-02-21 08:29:42)

0BADC0DE · 2018-02-21 08:37:51

nickyamane wrote:

This old redhat thread gives some reasons why such a script been included into the packages (probably the same reason why it's not in Arch package as well)
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466041

I hardly can make some sense out of those things

...
Imagine if someone hacks the source you're downloading from and you download some evil script. It totally overrides all rpm security mechanism like checksums and package signing.
...

Mainly for two reasons (also told in that report at RedHat):

1. There's already an update-pciids program that does exactly the same task but for PCI.
2. The stuff needed to download (http://www.linux-usb.org/usb-ids.html) isn't a script: it's a text file, more or less like that for PCI (http://pci-ids.ucw.cz/) and MACs (http://standards-oui.ieee.org/oui.txt).

The thing reported at Slackware isn't (of course) working in ArchLinux: it just fails silently.

So I want to file a bug or two but have no idea whether such an update script ever existed within any ArchLinux package (either official or AUR).
Any idea?

Last edited by 0BADC0DE (2018-02-21 08:40:25)

seth · 2018-02-21 09:01:13

What's so hard to understand about this?
That's all legacy stuff, the hwdb is now maintained via the systemd moloch (since it blobbed over udev). /usr/lib/udev/hwdb.d/ in particular.
If you'd strace lsusb, you'd find the file to *not* be openend.

In addition those scripts would have written into distro maintained files, what made their execution a bad idea anyway.

0BADC0DE · 2018-02-21 10:40:44

seth wrote:

What's so hard to understand about this?
That's all legacy stuff, the hwdb is now maintained via the systemd moloch (since it blobbed over udev). /usr/lib/udev/hwdb.d/ in particular.
If you'd strace lsusb, you'd find the file to *not* be openend.
In addition those scripts would have written into distro maintained files, what made their execution a bad idea anyway.

It's not I don't understand (maybe).
I am looking for a way to update usb.ids files just like I do with pic.ids file.
If you read the answers I get, there's no answer.
It could be the case that lsusb and its companion usb.id files are legacy, to be superseded by some other tool with some other USB ids file.
But I have no idea, as well as anyone else who posted here.
For what I read here, none knows and as a "newbie" posting here the strace isn't the first thing I do to get answers.
"man 8 lsusb" says it uses /usr/share/hwdata/usb.ids, though.
Finally, that file is clearly outdated and not maintained at all.

seth · 2018-02-21 10:47:09

What I posted (strace verification aside) is in the links nickyamane posted and him and me are the only two persons to have replied to you therefore we both clearly *have* an idea about the situation.

And since you apparently still didn't get it

I am looking for a way to update usb.ids files just like I do with pic.ids file.

Well, download the file from upstream but IT IS A POINTLESS AND BAD IDEA.

I'm done with you.

0BADC0DE · 2018-02-21 12:28:31

seth wrote:

What I posted (strace verification aside) is in the links nickyamane posted and him and me are the only two persons to have replied to you therefore we both clearly *have* an idea about the situation.
And since you apparently still didn't get it
I am looking for a way to update usb.ids files just like I do with pic.ids file.
Well, download the file from upstream but IT IS A POINTLESS AND BAD IDEA.
I'm done with you.

So, still no answer to my question. Any hint?

R00KIE · 2018-02-21 13:09:31

0BADC0DE wrote:

So, still no answer to my question. Any hint?

People have answered your question. You've been told how to check it yourself with strace, you've been pointed to bug reports which also state why it is a bad idea.

That script is not going to happen because:
- That data comes from systemd now.
- It's a very stupid idea to have scripts overwriting files tracked by the package manager.

If you still don't understand go read on how package managers work on linux and do what people have suggested you can do to check things yourself.

0BADC0DE · 2018-02-21 14:14:11

R00KIE wrote:

0BADC0DE wrote:
So, still no answer to my question. Any hint?
People have answered your question.

The question in the title reads "How to update the USB ids file?"
It's been posted into the "newbie" forum to avoid pissing Arch gurus off.
Sadly there's been no answer to that very question.

This is the answer:

> There's no documented way to update the USB ids file under ArchLinux.
> That file should be deleted as isn't being updated and because the same details are embedded/provided by systemd.

I interpolated it from friendly comments like yours.

R00KIE wrote:

You've been told how to check it yourself with strace, you've been pointed to bug reports which also state why it is a bad idea.

Correct. But that's still not an answer. Is it?

R00KIE wrote:

That script is not going to happen because:
- That data comes from systemd now.
- It's a very stupid idea to have scripts overwriting files tracked by the package manager.

Now (once I interpolated the answer) I know.
But I haven't been asking how to check the binaries. I would do that for debugging purposes.
When I don't know something I normally start by reading the friendly manual.
Which is still mentioning that USB IDs file, not systemd, as both come from the same place and refer each other!
Using strace, gdb and other deep information and debugging tools isn't my first choice, I admit it.

R00KIE wrote:

If you still don't understand go read on how package managers work on linux and do what people have suggested you can do to check things yourself.

Thanks for the suggestion. I really wasn't aware of the powerful strace.
But I still think newbies should read the manuals and the documentation before going the tough way.

Finally I think it's also a stupid idea to keep into a distribution data files that are not being updated and used any more. But this is just my opinion.

R00KIE · 2018-02-21 15:51:48

0BADC0DE wrote:

This is the answer:
> There's no documented way to update the USB ids file under ArchLinux.
> That file should be deleted as isn't being updated and because the same details are embedded/provided by systemd.
I interpolated it from friendly comments like yours.

You had been told that before or pointed in the right direction on how to check it, I just pointed that out more bluntly.

0BADC0DE wrote:

Now (once I interpolated the answer) I know.
But I haven't been asking how to check the binaries. I would do that for debugging purposes.
When I don't know something I normally start by reading the friendly manual.
Which is still mentioning that USB IDs file, not systemd, as both come from the same place and refer each other!
Using strace, gdb and other deep information and debugging tools isn't my first choice, I admit it.

Reading the manual is the least you are expected to do, this is Arch Linux and no one is going to be doing any hand holding here. You have been pointed to strace, you might as well have checked it, you'll need it later to debug other problems if you use Arch long enough.

If you had done what seth suggested you would have seen that there might be a way to use a more up-to-date hardware database file, even if that may not be documented or properly documented. The catch is the file that is used now comes with udev, which is updated regularly, so I don't know how much more up-to-date you can find. That said you would most probably forget that you had provided your own hardware database file and come back later complaining that it was out-of-date. I'll leave finding out how to do that as homework for you, hint: use strace.

0BADC0DE wrote:

Finally I think it's also a stupid idea to keep into a distribution data files that are not being updated and used any more. But this is just my opinion.

There is something you can do about it, file a bug report.

0BADC0DE · 2018-02-21 16:00:10

R00KIE wrote:

There is something you can do about it, file a bug report.

Done 1 hour ago also upstream.

Last edited by 0BADC0DE (2018-02-21 16:00:30)

Arch Linux

#1 2018-02-21 06:58:28

[UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#2 2018-02-21 07:02:48

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#3 2018-02-21 07:05:26

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#4 2018-02-21 07:19:26

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#5 2018-02-21 07:22:02

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#6 2018-02-21 07:46:57

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#7 2018-02-21 07:50:41

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#8 2018-02-21 08:03:09

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#9 2018-02-21 08:06:13

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#10 2018-02-21 08:25:50

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#11 2018-02-21 08:37:51

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#12 2018-02-21 09:01:13

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#13 2018-02-21 10:40:44

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#14 2018-02-21 10:47:09

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#15 2018-02-21 12:28:31

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#16 2018-02-21 13:09:31

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#17 2018-02-21 14:14:11

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#18 2018-02-21 15:51:48

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

#19 2018-02-21 16:00:10

Re: [UNSOLVABLE] How to update the USB ids file?

Board footer