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#1 2018-04-06 17:12:32

aleskva
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 69

Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

Hello, I've never had a PC with UEFI. But now I got one. And I heard I don't need to install Grub as there is some UEFI module directly in systemd, which is better than Grub, because no OS can rewrite systemd bootloader's setting of another OS (which is really frustrating on Grub, especially with Windows and Ubuntu installations, those two always break my Grub installed from my default Arch).

Is that correct? What requirements are needed before installing Arch and booting it this way? Is it okay on MBR or do I need GPT? (I've found no info in https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd-boot) Is the instalation process of Arch the same? (I hope so)

Is the searching for existing OSes by systemd-boot similar and automatic like for grub? (`pacman -S os-prober` > `grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg`)

Is the microcode update by systemd-boot similar and automatic like in grub? (`pacman -S intel-ucode` > `grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg`)

Last edited by aleskva (2018-04-06 18:54:15)

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#2 2018-04-06 17:19:13

Scimmia
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Registered: 2012-09-01
Posts: 11,466

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

No, it's not correct. Start here: https://www.happyassassin.net/2014/01/2 … work-then/

There's no automatic shit in systemd-boot. You configure it like you want it and that's it.

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#3 2018-04-06 17:19:47

V1del
Forum Moderator
Registered: 2012-10-16
Posts: 21,427

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

aleskva wrote:

Hello, I've never had a PC with UEFI. But now I got one. And I heard I don't need to install Grub as there is some UEFI module directly in systemd, which is better than Grub, because no OS can rewrite systemd bootloader's setting of another OS (which is really frustrating on Grub, especially with Windows and Ubuntu installations, those two always break my Grub installed from my default Arch).

There's no protection from that no and using systemd-boot or UEFI grub will be no different. The difference here is that it will be up to your UEFI (motherboard) implementation. Well behaved ones behave like you hope, there are plenty of UEFIs that will actively forget non-Windows OS entries on Windows updates and you will have to set them up again just the same. The responsibility for that lies on the motherboard vendor though.

What requirements are needed before installing Arch and booting it this way? Is it okay on MBR or do I need GPT? (I've found no info in https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd-boot) Is the instalation process of Arch the same? (I hope so)

The bootloader is irrelevant here, however the question is whether your UEFI implementation supports UEFI-MBR which is unlikely, GPT is guaranteed though (and I don't know why you'd want to go for MBR on a new system anyway.

Is the the searching for existing OSes by systemd-boot similar and automatic like for grub? (`pacman -S os-prober` > `grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg`)

Given they are installed on the same ESP, Windows will have an entry created, other ones have to be configured.

Last edited by V1del (2018-04-06 17:20:41)

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#4 2018-04-06 17:24:12

aleskva
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 69

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

V1del wrote:

The bootloader is irrelevant here, however the question is whether your UEFI implementation supports UEFI-MBR which is unlikely, GPT is guaranteed though (and I don't know why you'd want to go for MBR on a new system anyway.

On that computer there was UEFI + MBR + Windows 7 before (don't know if 32 bit/64 bit). So there is currently UEFI and empty MBR disk. So I can choose whether to change to GPT or stay at MBR...

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#5 2018-04-06 17:25:35

Scimmia
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Registered: 2012-09-01
Posts: 11,466

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

If it was UEFI+MBR, it was booting the CSM (legacy BIOS compatibility), so you need to check that in the firmware settings.

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#6 2018-04-06 17:37:39

aleskva
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 69

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

Scimmia wrote:

If it was UEFI+MBR, it was booting the CSM (legacy BIOS compatibility), so you need to check that in the firmware settings.

Yeah, I know. I hoped I could use more **native** way for that UEFI and not use the classic BIOS config: MBR + Grub. I hoped I could boot without CMS using native UEFI behavior (for which I've found systemd-boot is probably needed?).

For BIOS + MBR + Grub there is great and really complete instructions and manuals, for UEFI the Arch wiki is a little bit brief.

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#7 2018-04-06 18:52:58

aleskva
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 69

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

I tried to install Arch the usual way (MBR + Grub) but Grub installation failed on missing EFI partition. How should I make an EFI partition?

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#8 2018-04-06 19:36:39

dockland
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From: Sweden
Registered: 2015-06-06
Posts: 861

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

Thats all in the installation instructions

Particularly the "Partition the disks" section. But make sure you've done all the pre requirements before.Check efivars that it's listed.


I possess a device, in my pocket, that is capable of accessing the entirety of information known to man.
I use it to look at funny pictures of cats and to argue with strangers.

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#9 2018-04-06 19:39:25

Trilby
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Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 29,449
Website

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

Exactly as described in the wiki page linked from the installation guide which you should be following.


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#10 2018-04-06 19:47:49

aleskva
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 69

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

Ah, I see, I partitioned like usual and forgot to create that partition. I have UEFI PC first day in my life and I already don't like UEFI.

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#11 2018-04-06 23:50:46

circleface
Member
Registered: 2012-05-26
Posts: 639

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

I think the only reason you are having trouble is because you are doing UEFI + MBR.  If you do UEFI + GPT + systemd-boot then the whole process is not nearly as complicated.  Grub may seem easier to use because it includes some degree of automation, but when something breaks grub is a nightmare to troubleshoot.  Systemd-boot is pretty easy to set up, and it will never break unless your motherboard is terrible.  I have done several installations with UEFI + GPT + systemd-boot and it is very fast once you get the hang of it.

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#12 2018-04-07 00:04:50

Awebb
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Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 6,275

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

aleskva wrote:

Ah, I see, I partitioned like usual and forgot to create that partition. I have UEFI PC first day in my life and I already don't like UEFI.

That what I thought on day one. FF to day 10 and... what is a BIOS MBR?

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#13 2018-04-07 06:57:44

aleskva
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 69

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

circleface wrote:

I think the only reason you are having trouble is because you are doing UEFI + MBR.  If you do UEFI + GPT + systemd-boot then the whole process is not nearly as complicated.  Grub may seem easier to use because it includes some degree of automation, but when something breaks grub is a nightmare to troubleshoot.  Systemd-boot is pretty easy to set up, and it will never break unless your motherboard is terrible.  I have done several installations with UEFI + GPT + systemd-boot and it is very fast once you get the hang of it.

Okay, today I'll install Windows on clean disk (only to create GPT and a good EFI partition for me as I am really a novice and Windows installation will do this automatically). Then remove installed Windows partition and add Linux, second Linux, swap and data partitions. Then I'll install Arch to first Linux and then hopefully start with systemd-boot, instead of Grub. I really like Grub, because when something breaks, it is really straightforward to fix it, but isomething breaks nearly on every second installation of some OS, so maybe systemd-boot, included in systemd (therefore preinstalled with Arch) will be a better option.

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#14 2018-04-07 07:57:45

dockland
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2015-06-06
Posts: 861

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

Not a rant in any way, but i really recommend you to learn the basics of disk partitioning. Once you get a grip on it, it's not time consuming at all, and you get knowledge how to properly set up your disks for the future. I once learnt by following Funtoo installation guide. The disk partitioning section is pretty straight forward.

E: typo

Last edited by dockland (2018-04-07 08:06:00)


I possess a device, in my pocket, that is capable of accessing the entirety of information known to man.
I use it to look at funny pictures of cats and to argue with strangers.

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#15 2018-04-07 08:37:03

aleskva
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 69

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

I can partition disks really great, but I've never created EFI partition and as it is crucial partition to boot, I rather let Windows installation to create it for me

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#16 2018-04-07 08:39:06

Scimmia
Fellow
Registered: 2012-09-01
Posts: 11,466

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

If you have to depend on Windows for something like that, you're better off just leaving Windows on the machine.

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#17 2018-04-07 09:00:28

aleskva
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 69

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

I'll leave it in shrinked partition, but for the future I want to learn Virtualbox basics and run Windows from Arch

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#18 2018-04-07 09:03:42

aleskva
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 69

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

A question: If I want to remove some OS from GPT + UEFI, how do I do that? On MBR + BIOS + Grub it was easy, just clean that partition with that OS and update grub by "grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg". But on UEFI this seems much more complicated or not?

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#19 2018-04-07 12:59:58

Trilby
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Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 29,449
Website

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

No, it's not more complicated.  Just follow the damn wiki already.  There is nothing magical about an EFI partition, you create it like any other partition.  Again, RTFW.


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#20 2018-04-07 13:23:45

V1del
Forum Moderator
Registered: 2012-10-16
Posts: 21,427

Re: Installing Arch on UEFI + MBR (set by the previous PC user)

Agreed with trilby, please stop with the theoretical wonderings, follow the provided articles and guidance. If you get stuck at a specific spot for some reason, post the details of what you did and why something didn't work as you expected it to, pointing at the parts in the wiki you didn't understand.

Do your homework, look at the information available in the wiki.

Start a new thread detailing specific problems should they arise.

As the original question has been answered, I'm going to close this, to prevent it from going further out of hand.

Closing.

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