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#1 2018-04-25 00:43:08

es20490446e
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Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

For being able to calibrate the screen, the daemon "colord" needs a bridge dependant of the desktop environment. There are three available bridges:
- colord-gtk
- colord-kde
- xiccd

The problem here is that the latest one, available in the AUR, doesn't follow the naming of the previous ones. So if an user searches for "colord" they will never figure out there's that third option.

Shall I request this to be fixed?

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#2 2018-04-25 01:09:16

Trilby
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Registered: 2011-11-29
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Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

es20490446e wrote:

The problem here is that the latest one, available in the AUR, doesn't follow the naming of the previous ones. So if an user searches for "colord" they will never figure out there's that third option.

Although the first half of that is true, the second certainly isn't.  I just searched "colord" in the AUR, and sure enough there was xiccd in the results.

es20490446e wrote:

Shall I request this to be fixed?

Only if you want it fixed.


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#3 2018-04-25 01:15:49

ooo
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Registered: 2013-04-10
Posts: 1,631

Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

The upstream project name is xiccd, not colord-xiccd.
colord-gtk and colord-kde are also named according to the upstream project/tarballs.

For the sake of consistency, pkgname should match the name of the source tarball of the software

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PKGBUILD#pkgname

The fact that xiccd can be used as a colord bridge, is also mentioned in wiki (although it is missing the AUR link)

Last edited by ooo (2018-04-25 01:17:24)

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#4 2018-04-25 13:05:15

es20490446e
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Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

I have suggested the change in:
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/xiccd

Although it seems the maintainer is no longer taking care of the package, furthermore it really doesn't contain all the components to really make the daemon work.

If they don't respond after a week I will flag the package, and upload an alternative one.

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#5 2018-04-25 13:13:14

es20490446e
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Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

For the sake of consistency, pkgname should match the name of the source tarball of the software

It's the exception to the rule. Rules should only apply to the extent they make things easier, not harder.

Last edited by es20490446e (2018-04-25 13:13:47)

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#6 2018-04-25 18:11:49

loqs
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Registered: 2014-03-06
Posts: 14,222

Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

es20490446e wrote:

For the sake of consistency, pkgname should match the name of the source tarball of the software

It's the exception to the rule. Rules should only apply to the extent they make things easier, not harder.

Trilby wrote:
es20490446e wrote:

The problem here is that the latest one, available in the AUR, doesn't follow the naming of the previous ones. So if an user searches for "colord" they will never figure out there's that third option.

Although the first half of that is true, the second certainly isn't.  I just searched "colord" in the AUR, and sure enough there was xiccd in the results.

You might want to check with the Trusted Users that they concur with your rationale.
Edit:
grammar concur not conquer

Last edited by loqs (2018-04-25 18:12:40)

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#7 2018-04-25 18:55:47

Trilby
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Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

What rationale?  What I posted was directly-observable easily-confirmable fact:
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/?K=colord

EDIT: oops, perhaps I misunderstood.  Loqs, we're you replying to me, or quoting me as context for your reply to the OP?

Last edited by Trilby (2018-04-25 18:56:46)


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#8 2018-04-25 18:59:35

loqs
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Posts: 14,222

Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

Tribly I was quoting you as context and concurring with your observation of how easy it was to find the package under its current name.

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#9 2018-04-25 21:36:08

es20490446e
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Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

Informed the Trusted Users about this topic.

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#10 2018-04-25 23:08:40

eschwartz
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Registered: 2014-08-08
Posts: 4,097

Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

loqs wrote:

Tribly I was quoting you as context and concurring with your observation of how easy it was to find the package under its current name.

FWIW I usually quote my supporting arguments after what I'm saying, not before -- and have never had people be confused about which person I'm responding to. smile

...

es20490446e, I don't see the issue. Software is typically named the same way upstream names it. colord-gtk is the formal name, colord-kde is the formal name, and xiccd is the formal name.

The AUR supports keyword searches, and both pacman and the AUR support searching in the package description. This software is entirely discoverable, and its name is following the approach of technical correctness.

People who only look at pkgnames, without reading the relevant Wiki documentation or even doing a keyword search, will not discover many things, and I see no reason to cater to such people. Our pkgnames would end up having more bytes of information than the rest of the package metadata combined...

Last edited by eschwartz (2018-04-25 23:11:43)


Managing AUR repos The Right Way -- aurpublish (now a standalone tool)

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#11 2018-04-26 01:35:48

es20490446e
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Registered: 2017-12-29
Posts: 46
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Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

Since various bridges are named after colord, users will automatically assume that the rest aren't bridges.

This is important because they will think that there isn't color calibration available in Arch appart from two desktop environments. So a no go for professional video and photo editing.

In my case, for example, it took me half an hour to figure out that I could calibrate color by installing that package. And only because I have a very persistent attitude. A thing that would have taken seconds only with an extra word.

Bottom line is:
Not simpler as in structure, but simpler as in purpose.

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#12 2018-04-26 01:55:53

ooo
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Registered: 2013-04-10
Posts: 1,631

Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

I think anyone actually requiring color managed display would think to look for "color management" or "icc profiles" on wiki, and in addition to finding out about xiccd, learn that there are a lot more options for color management than just colord.

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#13 2018-04-26 02:04:58

Trilby
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Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

Initially your suggestion sounded reasonable.  But now you've really shot yourself in the foot with blatantly disengenuous hyperbole:

es20490446e wrote:

Since various bridges are named after colord, users will automatically assume that the rest aren't bridges.

What users where?  If they assume so foolishly, we're better off without them.  And since when do we call two exemplars "various"?

es20490446e wrote:

This is important because they will think that there isn't color calibration available in Arch appart from two desktop environments.

Again, who is "they" and why should we care?  Apparently "they" are people who never bothered to read a single wiki page on color calibration as those pages prominently note xiccd as the tool to use if you do not use gnome or KDE:

wiki wrote:

If you're not using neither Gnome nor KDE, you may install an independent daemon, xiccd, which does the same but does not depend on your desktop environment.

Seems pretty clear.

es20490446e wrote:

In my case, for example, it took me half an hour ...

I'm not sure which is more shocking: that you think half an hour is a long time for such a journey, or that it actually took you half an hour to read the single relevant wiki page.

es20490446e wrote:

... A thing that would have taken seconds only with an extra word.

What extra word?  It's already been established that a search of the AUR for "colord" will in fact list xiccd as a result.  So adding colord to the name would have no impact at all on the duration of time it took you to conduct a search or read a wiki page.

Last edited by Trilby (2018-04-26 02:07:42)


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#14 2018-04-26 02:05:06

eschwartz
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Registered: 2014-08-08
Posts: 4,097

Re: Renaming xiccd to colord-xiccd

es20490446e wrote:

Since various bridges are named after colord, users will automatically assume that the rest aren't bridges.

You mean, "Since various bridges are named after colord, users who assume things will automatically assume that the rest aren't bridges."

This is important because they will think that there isn't color calibration available in Arch appart from two desktop environments. So a no go for professional video and photo editing.

This is important, because Arch Linux caters to people who do not know how to search the Wiki.

... Wait a minute...

In my case, for example, it took me half an hour to figure out that I could calibrate color by installing that package. And only because I have a very persistent attitude. A thing that would have taken seconds only with an extra word.

It took you half an hour to figure out how to type "colord" into the search bar on the AUR, and mentally filter through *5* package results to find the one described as "Simple bridge between colord and X"?

Don't worry, AUR helpers return the exact same 5 results.

Disclaimer: Up until a few minutes ago, this was slightly harder as there were *7* results, not just 5, so it was a lot more confusing... but I deleted an ancient package and another one which was a useless dummy package.

Bottom line is:
Not simpler as in structure, but simpler as in purpose.

You're adding extraneous words to the pkgname, in order to duplicate the pkgdesc and go against upstream naming... how is that either one???


Managing AUR repos The Right Way -- aurpublish (now a standalone tool)

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