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#1 2003-01-27 09:40:10

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

I was reading through earlier discussions searching for information about the aims of AL but could not find more what is already said in the documentation.

Current version is 0.4. I am curious to know what will 1.0 become. Is it a bug free version with the latest applications only or something more?

I am not only asking due to my curiosity but wanting to know what I (we users) can expect from AL. Is there anything I/we (if anyone is interested) can help AL with the same motive what was said by Judd Vinet when getting something for free: ".... and to give a little something back to the free software community, since I've taken so much."

Here I am not speaking about financial support but other things what may help achiving version 1.0 into a successful distro.

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#2 2003-01-27 19:40:40

apeiro
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From: Victoria, BC, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-12
Posts: 771
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Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

rasat wrote:

Current version is 0.4. I am curious to know what will 1.0 become. Is it a bug free version with the latest applications only or something more?

I am not only asking due to my curiosity but wanting to know what I (we users) can expect from AL.

Well, let's start with that.  What do you (the users) expect to see from a 1.0 release of Arch Linux?  Besides general refinements in packaging/documentation/installation/scalability/etc, what would you like to see?

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#3 2003-01-28 00:46:29

beniro
Member
From: St. Petersburg, FL, USA
Registered: 2002-12-31
Posts: 312

Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

Well...I view a v1.0 certainly as just another brick in the road, not a destination, so what I think needs the most work are:

1) Getting more packages supported by pacman.  Let's support...EVERYTHING!  Ok, unrealistic, but we need to keep our pool of packages growing.

2) The documentation needs to be more complete.


And also just come general fine-tuning of the great distro already in place.

Maybe someone else is a little more creative in their suggestions?  smile

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#4 2003-01-28 02:08:12

jk
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From: Groningen, The Netherlands
Registered: 2002-10-24
Posts: 66
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Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

- package rollback in pacman (ody thought of this i think)
- real sandbox building of packages
- support for virtual packages
- package hold feature
- lots of official documentation
- LSB compliancy
- self-healing support (package integrity)
- possibility to build a custom kernel on install
- better installation system
- i586 support
- PAM integration
- Menuing system (like Debian's) <-- not sure if i like this :-P
- integrating use of binary and source packages more tightly. This way
we could for example distribute source-only packages like NVIDIA
drivers.
ie: setting in /etc/pacman.conf which sets default to either
source-based or binary-based. Only use a package of the other kind if
it's only available like that....

-  22:24 bfinch|aw| jk: also....customized build, that allows for ver.rel. number upgrading (automatically)

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#5 2003-01-28 06:44:51

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

self-healing is a good but a flawed concept. the idea should be not to fix after the fact but not allow it in the first place. I believe one of the IRC fellows has an example of "self-healing" progressively instead of retroactively.

while i am not opposed to a set of standards i am opposed to LSB. But that is personal I have seen such entities start up elsewhere and completely ruin those industries they affected for the user.  but most people do not seem opposed to it so i am likely off base here.

i would like to see dual dependency handling


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#6 2003-01-28 07:58:23

ody
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From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2002-08-12
Posts: 212
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Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

we need some ability to automagicly add new packages to window manager menus aswell....

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#7 2003-01-29 04:35:03

mordantly
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From: Westside - CenCAL
Registered: 2002-08-16
Posts: 83
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Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

i thinks we should just let Arch's evolution take its cource and see what becomes of him.. as users always submit/modify things that bug them (or need fixing) so it should consistantly be in a forward direction. but Arch does have quite a uniqueness that makes it stand out from the pack as likewise others have theres, so i just hope that as popularity and evolution advance, we dont lose sight of this.


try to be a man and some day, you'll understand   -ccr
oh dont u worry.. ill be eating ur balls fur lunch tomorrow.   -Hugh "HughMan" Stahl
MoRdAnTlY [Mr. Wolf '91 - '11]

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#8 2003-01-30 04:25:30

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

apeiro wrote:

What do you (the users) expect to see from a 1.0 release of Arch Linux?  Besides general refinements in packaging/documentation/installation/scalability/etc, what would you like to see?

Before listing "what I want to see" (next post.... I have to think about it), I support several ideas suggested by Jk. I asked him (private message) to explain the technical terms I was not familiar. Here below I have copied points I liked including his description (for others who are not familiar with the terms) and few additions:

<b>- Package rollback in pacman</b> --> "rollback"???
Jk> <i>package rollback means that if an upgrade of a package fails it'll reinstall the old package back.</i>

Within same content, when packages are upgraded (successfully) current config files should be intacted. Example, during apache upgrade current hppd.conf file remain as it is and the new upgraded file is renamed. Its upto the users to update manually.

<b>- Real sandbox building of packages</b> ---> "sandbox"???
Jk> <i> package building to be in a safe environment, ie without the possibility of it touching stuff in the arch installation.</i>
<b>- support for virtual packages</b> ---> how???
Jk> <i>For example bzflag, it depends on OpenGL, but OpenGL can be delivered by several different pieces of software, like MESA or the NVIDIA drivers. Such packages should be able to have a "provides='OpenGL'" argument in them, so a user can choose which one of them to install.</i>
<b>- Menuing system (like Debian's)</b> ---> I am not sure what you mean??
Jk><i> When you install a package in debian, the menus in the various window managers are automatically updated.</i>

<b>- Package hold feature</b>
I would suggest also to provide a short description about the package and what it does. Also  size of the packages (good to know when downloading with 56k modem).

<b>- Possibility to build a custom kernel on install</b>
All Win4Lin users will be happy with this feature smile. I suggest to include the win4lin patch file.

<b>- Better installation system</b>
I would not suggest to change too much from what it is to keep it simple. But instead designing the kernel and system files to install on it's own all basic stuff (modules) and configs.... internet connection, sound, pcmcia cards, hardware, etc. What I really would like to have is an autodetect recognition engine to run all common hardwares same as what RedHat, SuSE and Mandrake do. 
<b>- i586 support</b>
This is very essential if AL is looking forward to have  larger number of users. Africa, Mauritius, India and South East Asia what are my working fields (as a social worker), i586 is more common than i686.

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#9 2003-01-30 04:32:42

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

i am working on a i586 port right now. it is slow going but if everything works out (i am not expecting it to) i could possibly have a very alpha version running sometime next week but don't look for any sort of official release until 0.5 is released. it is not something i (and i am sure apeiro) want to rush. i only mention the alpha version because i may ask some people help me test my work. wish me luck this will be much tougher than building OpenOffice


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#10 2003-01-31 14:45:36

Rouslan
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From: New York USA
Registered: 2002-11-13
Posts: 76

Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

Good luck Sarah!!!


Rouslan

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#11 2003-02-01 04:57:14

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

Here is a description (future advertisement smile ) about Arch Linux 1.0 how I would like AL to be emphasized. The ideas are copied from different parts said about AL, extended with other "linux from scratch" distro ideas, and few of my wishes. The BSD oriented package system (GUI pacman) is related to topic:
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=263

**************************

Arch Linux 1.0

Arch Linux is an optimized linux distribution of user's own choice targeted at all linux users with easy-to-use BSD oriented package system (for i586 and i686) and competent users to to build their own custom linux system.

Arch Linux is fast, lightweight, flexible and simple. This is backed by Pacman binary package system or build your own optimized packages with ABS (Arch Build System). ABS is one of the best advantages of Arch Linux. With ABS, you can easily create new packages or re-build existing packages to your needs. ABS also allows you to set up Arch Linux the way you like it -- with the optimization settings that you want and with Pacman install or uninstall your optimized KDE or GNOME packages as you desire. You decide what kind of system you want (athlon, duron, i386, i486, i586, i686, pentium-mmx, or pentium2 - 4), and ABS will create it for you.

If this kind of power and flexibility appeals to you, then try Arch Linux for yourself.

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#12 2003-02-01 23:16:14

mordantly
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From: Westside - CenCAL
Registered: 2002-08-16
Posts: 83
Website

Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

and as whit any production item, ur not complete until u have osme testimonials of its beneficiaries.

"tired of windows?? i was too than i discovered www.archlinux.org and u can too. it doesnt take long to see what Arch has to offer. its the best damn os i run. so why dont u become an Archer today?? afterall, what have u got to lose besides a lousy os??"

-Arch Linux user MoRdAnTlY


try to be a man and some day, you'll understand   -ccr
oh dont u worry.. ill be eating ur balls fur lunch tomorrow.   -Hugh "HughMan" Stahl
MoRdAnTlY [Mr. Wolf '91 - '11]

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#13 2003-02-04 06:30:44

rasat
Forum Fellow
From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
Website

Re: What will Arch Linux 1.0 become?

rasat wrote:

Arch Linux is an optimized linux distribution of user's own choice targeted at all linux users with easy-to-use BSD oriented package system (for i586 and i686) and competent users to to build their own custom linux system.

About the "easy-to-use BSD oriented package system" I have two options. Either make it BSD oriented (same as the /arch/setup config tool used when installing AL from CD) or Red Hat oriented (icons to run pacman and other config tools and files).

Currently, I am using icons to activate pacman when downloading new package upgrades, ABS updates, to shift between current and unofficial, etc. I also have one folder with links to important config files (fstab, XF86Config, etc.). I call it: "My Toolkit".

I copied the setup config tool from the AL CD (0.4) to check how does it work. I like it because its like running FreeBSD. Easy to select either CD or FTP packages. When FTP is selected, there is a choice of current or unofficial packages. Once selected all packages are displayed. What's missing is the list of currently installed packages. To fix it, I am not sure. Moreover does it have a scope to become a GUI-pacman?

Here is a screenshot of my "My Toolkit". In background is the AL's CD setup config tool.
http://home4.pacific.net.sg/~rasat/linu … it_al.html

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