General Linux boot process (CD vs HDD)

esuhl · 2018-08-15 23:03:06

I have a PC running Arch, and a bootable live CD for KnoppiXMAME. The latter is a distro based on Knoppix (which was based on Debian) from 2004. It's really minimalist -- booting to a single X application, with no way to even access a shell or terminal emulator.

There is no built-in way to install KnoppiXMAME to hard disk, but I wondered if anyone might know whether this is something that might be possible...?

I know this isn't strictly Arch-related, so I'm really sorry if I shouldn't ask. But I'm wondering if I might be able to use my Arch installation to somehow make the CD files bootable from HDD... And the question "is this possible" is more of a general-Linux question that I'm hoping that the knowledgeable folk here might understand and be able to point me in the right direction... :-)

--------------------

Aside from a few empty directories and human-readable text files (readme, etc.), the CD contains a rootsquash file and an isolinux directory containing the following files:

boot.cat
boot.msg
isolinux.bin
isolinux.cfg
KnoppiXMAME
miniroot.gz

I also used a tool to extract the boot image from the ISO - a file named Boot-NoEmul.img.

--------------------

I first tried extracting the ISO files to a hard drive, and adding this new entry in GRUB on my Arch system:

menuentry "KnoppiXMAME" {
    set root=(hd1,1)
    linux /isolinux/KnoppiXMAME
    initrd /boot/Boot-NoEmul.img
}

The boot process starts, but results in pages of text ending in:

...
UDF-fs: No partition found (1)
XFS: bad magic number
XFS: SB validate failed
Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on ram0

I tried unsquashing the rootsquash file onto a separate disk, and trying to boot that partition that with the same kernel and boot image, but the screen flickered as text endlessly appeared on the screen, until I hit Scroll Lock, which froze the machine with this message:

...
 <0>Kernel panic: Attempted to kill init!
 <1>Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000000
 printing eip:
c02bd1f1
*pde = 00000000

--------------------

I don't fully understand the Linux boot process, rootsquashed filesystems or the difference between booting from CD and HDD. But (even as a perpetual Linux newbie), I thought getting the CD to boot from HDD would be fairly simple.

Am I trying to achieve the impossible?

Last edited by esuhl (2018-08-15 23:04:02)

Trilby · 2018-08-15 23:19:18

You can readily boot isos from a bootloader. For example, for syslinux:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Sy … th_memdisk

esuhl · 2018-08-17 13:36:54

Trilby wrote:

You can readily boot isos from a bootloader. For example, for syslinux:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Sy … th_memdisk

Ah -- thanks! Unfortunately booting the ISO stops with the message:

Can't find KNOPPIX filesystem, sorry.
Dropping you to a (very limited) shell.
Press reset button to quit.

Additional builtin commands available:
        cat        mount      umount
        ubsnid     rmmod      lsmod

(Strangely, I don't get dropped into a shell. I can type and hit enter, but there's never any response.)

I assume this is why the ISO file doesn't boot:

The majority of Linux-based ISO images will also fail to work with MEMDISK ISO emulation. Linux distributions require kernel and initrd files to be specified. As soon as these files are loaded, the protected mode kernel driver(s) take control and the virtual CD will no longer be accessible. If any other files are required from the CD/DVD, they will be missing, resulting in boot error(s).

https://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php … DISK#Linux

Two potential solutions are listed. The first being kernel parameters, which don't seem to be supported by the KnoppiXMAME kernel. The second being memdiskfind and kernel modules.

But I'm struggling to understand where I should run the modprobe commands suggested. I tried booting into Arch and running them there, but the /dev/mtdblock0 device doesn't get created as it should...

I'm very confused! Any more hints? :-)

Last edited by esuhl (2018-08-17 13:41:21)

2ManyDogs · 2018-08-17 15:01:58

This Knoppix wiki entry describes booting the iso from hard drive using grub2: http://knoppix.net/wiki/Category:Hard_d … tall_to_HD

(but that's for Knoppix, not KnoppixMAME, so I don't know how helpful it will be)

Otherwise, you might get better help on the Knoppix forum (you're right that this isn't really an Arch question). http://knoppix.net/forum/forum.php

(edit) or just run mame from the repo, as Slithery suggests below.

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2018-08-17 16:24:34)

Slithery · 2018-08-17 15:54:48

Why not just run MAME through Arch?

esuhl · 2018-08-17 16:18:53

2ManyDogs wrote:

This Knoppix wiki entry describes booting the iso from hard drive using grub2: http://knoppix.net/wiki/Category:Hard_d … tall_to_HD

Thanks. I tried the other method, entering the bootfrom=file.iso parameter on the KnoppiXMAME boot line, but booting ended with the same error.

As I understand it, KnoppiXMAME has been really stripped down. I found this post from the author:

I still don't really plan on offering a HD install option because i break a lot of debian stuff to make the file size small so upgrading a system would not be trivial once it's installed.

https://sourceforge.net/p/knoppixmame/d … /96f22f4b/

I don't know if that means that it's impossible (or beyond the capabilities of a mere newbie like me), or whether there's some clever way I get it to boot from hard disk. I won't ever need to upgrade the system (which the author says is the problem), so... is this something I can work round...?

2ManyDogs wrote:

Otherwise, you might get better help on the Knoppix forum (you're right that this isn't really an Arch question). http://knoppix.net/forum/forum.php

Great idea. Thank you both for your help -- much appreciated.

esuhl · 2018-08-17 22:17:21

Slithery wrote:

Why not just run MAME through Arch?

Good question!

I've been exploring a few different ways to run MAME to see which is "the best". I want it to run on really old hardware (an AMD 3700+ PC, a 32-bit 1GHz PIII, etc.). And I have a friend with a broken "cocktail table" arcade machine with an old PC inside I want to fix.

So I'm looking for a simple way to boot to a menu to run games using an old version of MAME, and power off without needing a keyboard, etc.

AdvanceMAME is great, but games run too slowly on old PCs. RetroArch runs games well, but I absolutely *hate* the UI. (If you haven't seen it, you could barely imagine how awful it is.) KnoppiXMAME runs games really well, boots quickly; it's almost perfect, but doesn't install to hard disk. :-/

The system requirements for recent versions of MAME are crazy, so I considered installing MAME v0.37b5. It's not available in any Arch repository. I downloaded the source code, but the (long and complicated) makefile was intended for installation on Windows, and I didn't know how to edit it to get MAME to build. I started a thread about it here, but gave up and looked for other solutions (like KnoppiXMAME and RetroArch):

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=239119

------------------------

So I guess I have three options, none of which seems particularly easy:

1. Install KnoppiXMAME on HDD
2. Replace the unbearable UI in RetroArch
3. Install MAME 0.37b5 from source

:-/

V1del · 2018-08-18 10:00:24

Retroarch is specifically designed to allow different UIs. There at least two (the default RGUI, which seems to be the one you hate, and the PS3 menu-inspired xmb) included in a default distribution and a bit of searching will get you many alternatives. Installation of different UIs is a proper filesystem location and a switch in the configuration file - if you find the UI to be that unbearable as to switch it there - away.

And FWIW depending on what you intend to play, if a MAME emulation feels fast it might often be because the underlying emulator core is not completely up to date (and it reads like KnoppixMAME is quite dated) and might have emulation bugs.

Arch Linux

#1 2018-08-15 23:03:06

General Linux boot process (CD vs HDD)

#2 2018-08-15 23:19:18

Re: General Linux boot process (CD vs HDD)

#3 2018-08-17 13:36:54

Re: General Linux boot process (CD vs HDD)

#4 2018-08-17 15:01:58

Re: General Linux boot process (CD vs HDD)

#5 2018-08-17 15:54:48

Re: General Linux boot process (CD vs HDD)

#6 2018-08-17 16:18:53

Re: General Linux boot process (CD vs HDD)

#7 2018-08-17 22:17:21

Re: General Linux boot process (CD vs HDD)

#8 2018-08-18 10:00:24

Re: General Linux boot process (CD vs HDD)

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