UTF8 - Support out of the box

hightower · 2006-08-05 12:37:03

Hallo,

today I tried for the second time to convert my system to a utf8 locale, but I failed again.

So I wondered if Arch Linux could come with utf8 enabled and properly configured out of the box.

I don't know much about fonts, keymaps and encodings, so I can't image the problems arising with this conversion.

hightower

hehejo_ · 2006-08-05 13:43:43

What are the problems you encountered?
I simply generated the locale and used it in /etc/rc.conf

hightower · 2006-08-05 15:32:26

This post wasn't meant as a cry for help, but as a thought which I had when thinking about the future of textencodings :-)

hightower

Mikos · 2006-08-08 12:08:14

UTF8 support in Arch Linux (especially in ncurses applications) is badly broken for long time :-(

You can look here: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?p=155897
Bugreport is here: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/4418

It's a shame, this issue spoils reputation of Arch Linux, I know at least two people who rejected Arch Linux because of this.

Chris|MD · 2006-08-08 12:32:17

Wanted to use UTF-8 in the future. Didnt knew of this bug.
Nice to know that there are problems at the moment. But thats really not good for the reputation of arch.

headhunter · 2006-08-08 15:24:06

I have this ncurses bug too.
Also in KDE applications some of my filesystem umlauts are broken.
Just saying it so everybody knows. This issue should really be fixed, as the original bug report points it out quite bluntly.. this is a pita!

damjan · 2006-08-13 01:24:05

If you're using KDE and GTK2 applications there really should not be any problems with UTF-8, make sure your locale is setup correctly and all is great. Well ok, you need to have proper fonts that support all the characters you'll want to use.

But yes, there are problems with some ncurses programs - fortunately I don't use any now - the problem is that some ncurses applications don't support ncursesw.. even worse, some console applications don't even use ncurses but slang which until recently didn't support UTF-8 too.

cheer · 2006-08-13 11:42:20

There are patched mc and slang for utf-8: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages/slang-utf8/
http://aur.archlinux.org/packages/mc-utf8/

lumiwa · 2006-08-13 14:12:07

I started Arch in december and all the time I have a problem with fonts.
BTW: before Arch I had a Debian and SuSE and I never had same problem.
ARCH is very good distro but...

Mikos · 2006-08-13 14:31:19

lumiwa: There really aren't any problems with fonts and UTF8 in GTK2/Qt (GNOME/KDE) applications. If you have some problems, it must be some mistake on your side.

But on the other side, many console applications in Arch Linux are broken with UTF8 locale :-/

lumiwa · 2006-08-13 14:50:39

Mikos wrote:

lumiwa: There really aren't any problems with fonts and UTF8 in GTK2/Qt (GNOME/KDE) applications. If you have some problems, it must be some mistake on your side.
But on the other side, many console applications in Arch Linux are broken with UTF8 locale :-/

I used and I use console same as KDE, maybe more .

Lone_Wolf · 2006-08-13 18:38:31

I have the feeling that the problems with fonts have more to do with limited support for unicode chars in the fonts people have installed, than with software problems.
Recently i removed ttf-ms-fonts and replaced it with dejavu from Aur.
A lot of the Web pages where i saw rectangles with numbers in them before now show the correct characters.

phrakture · 2006-08-13 18:43:39

Mikos wrote:

But on the other side, many console applications in Arch Linux are broken with UTF8 locale :-/

Would you happen to know a fix, or some way for me to test/track this down. I'd be interested in fixing it, but I only speak (type/read) english, so full utf-8 compliance is a foreign concept.

I'd love to help fix this bug, but I'm a tad lost as to the exact problem.

lumiwa · 2006-08-13 20:15:35

Lone_Wolf wrote:

I have the feeling that the problems with fonts have more to do with limited support for unicode chars in the fonts people have installed, than with software problems.
Recently i removed ttf-ms-fonts and replaced it with dejavu from Aur.
A lot of the Web pages where i saw rectangles with numbers in them before now show the correct characters.

I ma not a "computer guy" but IMO if ms-fonts work correct under windows, what is than different under Linux (if you use same fonts)?

Gullible Jones · 2006-08-13 20:56:38

MS fonts don't support as many characters as Dejavu fonts.

lumiwa · 2006-08-13 21:03:41

Gullible Jones wrote:

MS fonts don't support as many characters as Dejavu fonts.

For example: on Debian site www.debian.org on the end: at work with Windows page shows all caracters correct. On Arch if I use in Konqueror settings -Fonts for Standard Font ms fonts or Dejavu or Bitstream Vera San, there are n some squares...
Okay, and what is here different between ms fonts, please?

sh__ · 2006-08-13 23:17:17

lumiwa wrote:

For example: on Debian site www.debian.org on the end: at work with Windows page shows all caracters correct. On Arch if I use in Konqueror settings -Fonts for Standard Font ms fonts or Dejavu or Bitstream Vera San, there are n some squares...

I checked that Opera and Firefox render the fonts on the Debian page using bitmap fonts from package xorg-fonts-misc. I think the DejaVu fonts are missing support for many asian fonts, hence the squares.

lumiwa · 2006-08-13 23:24:26

sh__ wrote:

lumiwa wrote:
For example: on Debian site www.debian.org on the end: at work with Windows page shows all caracters correct. On Arch if I use in Konqueror settings -Fonts for Standard Font ms fonts or Dejavu or Bitstream Vera San, there are n some squares...
I checked that Opera and Firefox render the fonts on the Debian page using bitmap fonts from package xorg-fonts-misc. I think the DejaVu fonts are missing support for many asian fonts, hence the squares.

I understand this but why MS fonts show asian fonts correct but MS-fonts under Arch no? Are ttf-ms fonts on Linux same as Windows? Thanks.

phrakture · 2006-08-13 23:26:29

lumiwa wrote:

sh__ wrote:
I checked that Opera and Firefox render the fonts on the Debian page using bitmap fonts from package xorg-fonts-misc. I think the DejaVu fonts are missing support for many asian fonts, hence the squares.
I understand this but why MS fonts show asian fonts correct but MS-fonts under Arch no? Are ttf-ms fonts on Linux same as Windows? Thanks.

He's saying that your font renderer is *not* using the MS fonts. It is using the xorg-fonts-misc fonts.

lumiwa · 2006-08-14 00:03:22

phrakture wrote:

lumiwa wrote:
sh__ wrote:
I checked that Opera and Firefox render the fonts on the Debian page using bitmap fonts from package xorg-fonts-misc. I think the DejaVu fonts are missing support for many asian fonts, hence the squares.
I understand this but why MS fonts show asian fonts correct but MS-fonts under Arch no? Are ttf-ms fonts on Linux same as Windows? Thanks.
He's saying that your font renderer is *not* using the MS fonts. It is using the xorg-fonts-misc fonts.

In my post I wrote that "Konqueror"... and IMO Konqueror use MS fonts.

Gullible Jones · 2006-08-14 02:55:19

With Galeon on my setup, using Dejavu (no MS fonts) all the characters show up fine. As a matter of fact, Wikipedia's Japanese, Chinese, and Thai pages all show up without a single square as far as I can see. You sure sure you don't have something configured wrong, lumiwa?

(Yes, I have set Gecko to use XFT for performance purposes.)

lumiwa · 2006-08-14 11:17:26

Gullible Jones wrote:

With Galeon on my setup, using Dejavu (no MS fonts) all the characters show up fine. As a matter of fact, Wikipedia's Japanese, Chinese, and Thai pages all show up without a single square as far as I can see. You sure sure you don't have something configured wrong, lumiwa?
(Yes, I have set Gecko to use XFT for performance purposes.)

I use KDE and Konqueror. In Control Center - Appearance and Themes - Fonts I have Dejavu Fonts, my font.conf looks like:

<xml>
<DOCTYPE>
<fontconfig>
<match>
<edit>
<const>none</const>
</edit>
</match>
<match>
<edit>
<bool>true</bool>
</edit>
</match>
<match>
<edit>
<const>hintfull</const>
</edit>
</match>
<match>
<edit>
<bool>true</bool>
</edit>
</match>
</fontconfig>

Xorg.conf, section fonts:

Section "Files"
RgbPath "/usr/share/X11/rgb"
ModulePath "/usr/lib/xorg/modules"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/misc"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/Type1"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/encodings"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/artwiz-fonts"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/TTF"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/speedo"
FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/cyrillic"
EndSection

I don't know what should I change?

lumiwa · 2006-08-14 13:26:18

One question more: do I need a FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/encodings"
line in xorg.conf, please?

mingfal · 2006-08-16 17:17:53

Dejavu doesnt include any character of Chinese AFAIK. If you want to make the square of Chinese look right, please install ttf-arphic-uming to have a good experience, for the bitmap fonts are too ugly.

Romashka · 2006-08-21 08:22:15

You should check Konqueror's font settings to see which fonts it uses.
It uses different fonts for serif, sans-serif, monospace, cursive and fantasy.

Arch Linux

#1 2006-08-05 12:37:03

UTF8 - Support out of the box

#2 2006-08-05 13:43:43

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#3 2006-08-05 15:32:26

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#4 2006-08-08 12:08:14

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#5 2006-08-08 12:32:17

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#6 2006-08-08 15:24:06

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#7 2006-08-13 01:24:05

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#8 2006-08-13 11:42:20

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#9 2006-08-13 14:12:07

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#10 2006-08-13 14:31:19

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#11 2006-08-13 14:50:39

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#12 2006-08-13 18:38:31

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#13 2006-08-13 18:43:39

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#14 2006-08-13 20:15:35

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#15 2006-08-13 20:56:38

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#16 2006-08-13 21:03:41

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#17 2006-08-13 23:17:17

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#18 2006-08-13 23:24:26

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#19 2006-08-13 23:26:29

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#20 2006-08-14 00:03:22

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#21 2006-08-14 02:55:19

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#22 2006-08-14 11:17:26

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#23 2006-08-14 13:26:18

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#24 2006-08-16 17:17:53

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

#25 2006-08-21 08:22:15

Re: UTF8 - Support out of the box

Board footer