Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

Simaryp · 2019-07-05 04:45:20

Hi,
I am a bit confused about Pacman since I recently wanted to get rid of some packages.
When I set up the current system I installed the group gnome and gnome-extra. But I got a bit annoyed of all the software looked the gnome-extra group up and decided I want to remove it.
So I did `$ sudo pacman -Rs gnome-extra` but this fails because of conflicts, namely nautilus-send-to. I looked up nautilus-send-to and indeed it is part of the gnome-extra group. But it's a dependency of nautilus too!
So that means installing gnome group installs nautilus, which causes that nautilus-send-to will be installed anyways, when installing gnome. But after installing gnome-extra which contains nautilus-send-to explicitly this program seems to be linked to gnome-extra. And now I can't remove gnome-extra without removing nautilus, which I didn't even try yet, because I assume this will become a never ending story. Now I am really puzzled why it is like that, maybe I got something wrong.

jasonwryan · 2019-07-05 04:52:18

Nothing to do with pacman. Gnome is a complex software project, with lots of moving parts. If you want something more modular and lightweight, install openbox or another user friendly WM.

Simaryp · 2019-07-05 05:38:32

Hmm don't know, I really like gnome. But I think it still has to do with pacman, because it could be replaced with any other groups.
There is a group A with package B. B has the dependency C.
So you install A with pacman you will get B and C.
There is a group D with package C. You can install D and of course will keep C.
If you want to remove now D pacman complains that you can't do it, because C is needed by B.

That's really unexpected behavior for me.

jasonwryan · 2019-07-05 05:54:37

You are confusing packages and groups. gnome-sendto is a dependency of nautilus, so it will get pulled when you install nautilus or the gnome group, irrespective of whether you install gnome-extra (the group), even though it is part of that group. As to why it is a dependency of a package in gnome, but is in gnome-extra, I have no idea. Gnome is a bloated mess, as far as I am concerned, and I have no experience with it.

Simaryp · 2019-07-05 07:18:59

I agree 100% with your deduction and therefor I don't think I got confused by the groups. But the existence of nautilus-send-to in gnome-extra makes it impossible to remove all gnome-extra software with the same ease as installing it. I guess easiest way to fix this for this specific software is removsl of this package from gnome-extra. Or pacman could remember with which step the package was installed and ignore it then when gnome-extra is removed.

seth · 2019-07-05 09:07:20

pacman -Rsu gnome-extras

phw · 2019-07-05 09:12:07

There is an argument to be made for having nautilus-send-to not on the gnome-extra group. Maybe it was optional at some point and later got a required dependency, but since it is not really optional it should probably be no longer in gnome-extra.

Anyway, this is a request best created as a ticket for the nautilus-send-to package. It's not really a pacman issue or an issue with pacman being so entangled. So best is to let the maintainer of this package know. Maybe it was just an oversight, maybe it is intentional.

Last edited by phw (2019-07-05 12:51:54)

Simaryp · 2019-07-05 11:59:50

Ok I will make a ticket. Please don't get me wrong. No offense against pacman. I just switched recently from years of Ubuntu and a quick stop at Fedora back to arch and I really would like to understand whats going on.
What does -Rsu do? I couldn't find it in the wiki.

thefallenrat · 2019-07-05 12:06:07

Simaryp wrote:

What does -Rsu do? I couldn't find it in the wiki.

Stuff that aren't in the wiki usually end up in manpage

man pacman

the -Rsu is almost the same as -Rs, but it only removes stuff that are not required by any other packages, meaning it won't remove any package that are required by Nautilus or whatever packages that you are installed right now

Simaryp · 2019-07-05 12:37:21

Ah thx a lot.

Arch Linux

#1 2019-07-05 04:45:20

Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

#2 2019-07-05 04:52:18

Re: Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

#3 2019-07-05 05:38:32

Re: Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

#4 2019-07-05 05:54:37

Re: Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

#5 2019-07-05 07:18:59

Re: Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

#6 2019-07-05 09:07:20

Re: Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

#7 2019-07-05 09:12:07

Re: Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

#8 2019-07-05 11:59:50

Re: Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

#9 2019-07-05 12:06:07

Re: Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

#10 2019-07-05 12:37:21

Re: Why there is so much entanglement with pacman and how to deal with it?

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