Arch users are "techie snobs"!

renners1 · 2006-08-23 08:54:40

At risk of starting a war... I can't resist quoting this from the Ultima Linux FAQ:

Switching from other techie-oriented ("snob") distributions
If you're using a system like Debian, Arch Linux, Gentoo, or one of the other techie-oriented distributions, pretty much the same thing as above will apply to Ultima. Just remember that if you're one of the elitist Linux snobs, everyone is part of the Ultima Linux snob group!

Send flames to Ultima, not me!

Actually, this distro looks quite nice... all the stuff you need, including DVD, MP3 etc straight out of the box. Anyone tried it?

Cheers, Renners

arooaroo · 2006-08-23 09:01:31

Flattery get you everywhere

detto · 2006-08-23 09:08:52

Well, ive tried Ultima 8 a while ago, it "just" was Slackware with KDE and everything preconfigured, apps and stuff and so on. Truly a complete difference to archs philosophy and both not comparable for a good reason, so also both "groups" should not fight against,.... for what anyway? :?

cheers,
detto

brazzmonkey · 2006-08-23 09:24:31

i hope this distro is faster than its website, which damn slow... also, the "tuxette" mascot is quite ridiculous.

pressh · 2006-08-23 10:04:24

detto wrote:

Well, ive tried Ultima 8 a while ago

Yikes!
Do they really have that ugly theme as default (both gtk/qt/window border) as on the screenshots on their site ?
(http://www.ultimalinux.com/screenshots.html)

brazzmonkey · 2006-08-23 10:41:42

it uses enlightenment window manager. i agree this is REALLY ugly. i suppose this is a matter of taste...

detto · 2006-08-23 11:09:13

hm, nope this seems new to me since this 8.1 beta :?
iirc there was s.th. like plastik as deco, but idd this one NOW is real ugly :shock:

phrakture · 2006-08-23 14:57:55

I tried ultima once, but I kept dying to bats in the forests outside the castle.

deficite · 2006-08-24 00:37:53

I find that a lot of people who flame distros like Arch, Gentoo, etc. etc. for being "snobbish" are just upset because they actually have to have a brain in that skull of theirs and can't just cry to the world every time they need to clear their console or log in. "OMFG, liek these guys got mad because I told them they were SUPPOSED to help me with this problam! they told me to read a manual, but liek really liek hoo does that? There such snobs!"

Gullible Jones · 2006-08-24 01:34:13

As hideous as Ultima looks, I get the feeling that the comment about Arch, Gentoo, etc. is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek...

benplaut · 2006-08-24 03:41:19

nothing wrong with being an elitist

Bison · 2006-08-24 17:46:01

phrakture wrote:

I tried ultima once, but I kept dying to bats in the forests outside the castle.

haha! You should get a trophy for hilarious offtopic posts.

ultima really doesn't sound like its introducing anything at all. Just a slackware with everything pre configured. We have thousands of those.

iphitus · 2006-08-25 23:54:12

my information systems teacher called me a 'software snob' last year.

his fault for trying to teach us VB6.

deficite · 2006-08-26 14:29:50

I know how you feel iphitus. I was called the same exact thing when some people in my class went around with a list of people interested in a VB class and when I told them that VB is a dead language they were like "So, like you should sign up for it anyway because like you're good in computers and stuff!" I just laughed and said that I feel sorry for anybody who wastes their time in that class and that you'd get a lot more out of C/C++ class and they called me a "software snob."

bigbob73 · 2006-08-26 15:18:55

deficite wrote:

I know how you feel iphitus. I was called the same exact thing when some people in my class went around with a list of people interested in a VB class and when I told them that VB is a dead language they were like "So, like you should sign up for it anyway because like you're good in computers and stuff!" I just laughed and said that I feel sorry for anybody who wastes their time in that class and that you'd get a lot more out of C/C++ class and they called me a "software snob."

VB is far from a dead language. Its the only one we can use to program our drafting apps and its very easy to teach others. Having said that, i'm still and outcast at work as I'm the only one running linux. when everone else talks about the lates virus out and the massive amounts of spyware, i laugh my ass off at them.

ibrahim · 2006-08-26 16:39:22

renners1 wrote:

At risk of starting a war... I can't resist quoting this from the Ultima Linux FAQ:
Switching from other techie-oriented ("snob") distributions
If you're using a system like Debian, Arch Linux, Gentoo, or one of the other techie-oriented distributions, pretty much the same thing as above will apply to Ultima. Just remember that if you're one of the elitist Linux snobs, everyone is part of the Ultima Linux snob group!

Seeing as they defined themselves as snobs also I really don't see it as some dreadful insult nor do I think it was intended to be.

deficite wrote:

I find that a lot of people who flame distros like Arch, Gentoo, etc. etc. for being "snobbish" are just upset because they actually have to have a brain in that skull of theirs and can't just cry to the world every time they need to clear their console or log in. "OMFG, liek these guys got mad because I told them they were SUPPOSED to help me with this problam! they told me to read a manual, but liek really liek hoo does that? There such snobs!"

Ooooh, irony

deficite · 2006-08-27 03:40:53

bigbob73 wrote:

deficite wrote:
I know how you feel iphitus. I was called the same exact thing when some people in my class went around with a list of people interested in a VB class and when I told them that VB is a dead language they were like "So, like you should sign up for it anyway because like you're good in computers and stuff!" I just laughed and said that I feel sorry for anybody who wastes their time in that class and that you'd get a lot more out of C/C++ class and they called me a "software snob."
VB is far from a dead language. Its the only one we can use to program our drafting apps and its very easy to teach others. Having said that, i'm still and outcast at work as I'm the only one running linux. when everone else talks about the lates virus out and the massive amounts of spyware, i laugh my ass off at them.

I figured somebody would point out some use of VB that is still in use today. My opinion still stands that VB is a dead language and even VB.NET is taking the backseat now since C# is becoming so popular. I'm sorry, but starting someone out on VB is not a very good first impression of programming. I'd hate to see how much my poor classmates who would have chosen to take that VB class would cope with a C class.

Ooooh, irony

Explain the irony. I'm not being snobbish. I'm not saying I'm better than anybody. I'm merely pointing out an observation I've made by reading various message boards about how some people get so offended when they are told to actually put in any effort to understanding something. I've read so many posts from people that get irate and downright mean if people don't answer their question right away and exactly how they want it. You can't tell me you have never read a post by some newbie that asks something like "How do I get x app to do y" and when the question isn't answered 5 minutes later says something like "Don't I deserve an answer? Are you guys just that stupid? Doesn't anybody know the answer to this?" and somebody eventually does answer the question and it isn't worded just right and the newbie says "You are an idiot! If you didn't know the answer to the question why did you waste my time! You shouldn't even have tried to help at all! ..."

You wanna talk about irony? I think it's ironic that some people expect the world to bend over backwards for them and go out of their way to answer their questions and to do it right away, yet the person who asks the question or asks for help isn't willing to put any effort into it whatsoever. "Snob" is short for sine nobilis, "without nobility." How noble is it to expect the world to do all your work for you and then to criticize the world when the task isn't completed 100% perfect. I mean, even when people say "Read the manual" they are at least helping a little bit because they are pointing the person in the right direction. Some people are actually oblivious to the fact that many programs have documentation and being told to read the manual lets them know it's there.

arooaroo · 2006-08-27 11:02:38

:shock: You go, boy!

I wouldn't say that VB was a dead language. It may be a dying language now that MS has pulled the rug from under its feet, but it'll still be with us [well, the windows world] for a long, long time.

chrismortimore · 2006-08-27 11:25:45

Damnit, I run Gentoo, Arch, and Gentoo.. I must be the ultimate snob.. Pah, I turn my nose up at such comments.

Chman · 2006-08-27 11:39:15

deficite wrote:

Explain the irony. I'm not being snobbish. I'm not saying I'm better than anybody. I'm merely pointing out an observation I've made by reading various message boards about how some people get so offended when they are told to actually put in any effort to understanding something. I've read so many posts from people that get irate and downright mean if people don't answer their question right away and exactly how they want it. You can't tell me you have never read a post by some newbie that asks something like "How do I get x app to do y" and when the question isn't answered 5 minutes later says something like "Don't I deserve an answer? Are you guys just that stupid? Doesn't anybody know the answer to this?" and somebody eventually does answer the question and it isn't worded just right and the newbie says "You are an idiot! If you didn't know the answer to the question why did you waste my time! You shouldn't even have tried to help at all! ..."
You wanna talk about irony? I think it's ironic that some people expect the world to bend over backwards for them and go out of their way to answer their questions and to do it right away, yet the person who asks the question or asks for help isn't willing to put any effort into it whatsoever. "Snob" is short for sine nobilis, "without nobility." How noble is it to expect the world to do all your work for you and then to criticize the world when the task isn't completed 100% perfect. I mean, even when people say "Read the manual" they are at least helping a little bit because they are pointing the person in the right direction. Some people are actually oblivious to the fact that many programs have documentation and being told to read the manual lets them know it's there.

Well, I need to quote that... That's so true...

ibrahim · 2006-09-20 12:58:21

deficite wrote:

Explain the irony. I'm not being snobbish. I'm not saying I'm better than anybody.

The irony would be that in defending against accusations of tech snobbery you launch into a tirade of stereotypical tech snobbery which more or less translated into "RTFM n00b". And if you seriously think that all talk of OS snobbery can solely be traced to people disgruntled at a lack of free tech support then you are deluding yourself. Why is it that the so-called newbie friendly distros don't have similar reputations? They surely face a similar amount (in fact probably more) of lazy people who need help clearing their console.

It's known that in all areas or human pursuits from the culinary arts to religon to music to automotive repair there are those who take a snobbish attitude and look down on those who do things in a way they (arbitraily) deem "too easy". Yet for some reason computers is the sole field exempt from this and this false sterotype is solely the result of unfounded complaining from those who failed to get free tech support? It doesn't seem likely

deficite wrote:

You wanna talk about irony? I think it's ironic that some people expect the world to bend over backwards for them and go out of their way to answer their questions and to do it right away, yet the person who asks the question or asks for help isn't willing to put any effort into it whatsoever.

Well what's really ironic is that that isn't irony. Irony is when what is said/believed doesn't equate to what actually is. It isn't ironic to ask for help without putting in any legwork yourself

test1000 · 2006-09-20 14:09:57

no what's really ironic is irony in itself; it obliverates it's own reason to exist by being ironic.

ihavenoname · 2006-09-20 22:02:08

deficite wrote:

Ooooh, irony
Explain the irony. I'm not being snobbish. I'm not saying I'm better than anybody. I'm merely pointing out an observation I've made by reading various message boards about how some people get so offended when they are told to actually put in any effort to understanding something. I've read so many posts from people that get irate and downright mean if people don't answer their question right away and exactly how they want it. You can't tell me you have never read a post by some newbie that asks something like "How do I get x app to do y" and when the question isn't answered 5 minutes later says something like "Don't I deserve an answer? Are you guys just that stupid? Doesn't anybody know the answer to this?" and somebody eventually does answer the question and it isn't worded just right and the newbie says "You are an idiot! If you didn't know the answer to the question why did you waste my time! You shouldn't even have tried to help at all! ..."
You wanna talk about irony? I think it's ironic that some people expect the world to bend over backwards for them and go out of their way to answer their questions and to do it right away, yet the person who asks the question or asks for help isn't willing to put any effort into it whatsoever. "Snob" is short for sine nobilis, "without nobility." How noble is it to expect the world to do all your work for you and then to criticize the world when the task isn't completed 100% perfect. I mean, even when people say "Read the manual" they are at least helping a little bit because they are pointing the person in the right direction. Some people are actually oblivious to the fact that many programs have documentation and being told to read the manual lets them know it's there.

You make a point, however there are also some people who say RTFM without realizing the full scope of the situation or the context in which it was being asked. I once posted in the FedoraForum (Discussion Section) about how yum was slow (it has since improved) and someone told me to RTFM, as if I was asking a question (That may not be the best example but oh well).

Another point I would like to make is that you shouldn't tell someone to RTFM if they are posting in the Newbie forum because most newbies are not very well informed about where they can find the manual, (it took me a few months b4 someone told me about man "x-app/function") or the are so lost they really do need some help becoming orientated with the Linux world.

The very least you can do is politely tell them where the manual is and how they can locate such resources without having to go through the trouble of posting on the forum and waiting for an answer.

For example: "After googling "keyword relating to the issue" I found "insert hyperlink" if that doesn't help there were many other websites that came up that seemed relevant. Also you can try (for example) wiki.archlinux.org which is an excellent resource."

In doing that you do not offend the other person but you do point out some of the methods that they can use to find solutions to their problems. Also you don't give them the direct answer which allows them to get in the habit of helping themselves. If they answer in a snobbish way or become impatient with your answer then that is there problem. At which point still don't recommend you be rude to them (although if you were you would not be unjustified) Instead point out that you had located the answer to their question in one of the resources you suggested and avoided telling it to them because that would handicap them in the future.

Just my take on it.

Oh and on the Issue of Ultimas "insult" I believe what they were saying was just in jest or they were trying to tell people what to expect.

deficite · 2006-09-21 00:04:05

Oh, bother, I don't feel like arguing with you about what irony means and whether or not what I said was an example of irony. I also don't feel like having somebody define something for me that I already know, in a semi-condescending fashion (whether or not that was your intention)

I mean, even when people say "Read the manual" they are at least helping a little bit because they are pointing the person in the right direction. Some people are actually oblivious to the fact that many programs have documentation and being told to read the manual lets them know it's there.

Read my entire post (RMFP :-P). I said "Read the manual" not RTFM. This suggests that the person did point them in the right direction and is being helpful because he is making the newbie aware of the documentation. I'm sorry that one time one guy said RTFM out of context to you, but that's the way people are.

ihavenoname · 2006-09-21 00:50:16

deficite wrote:

Oh, bother, I don't feel like arguing with you about what irony means and whether or not what I said was an example of irony. I also don't feel like having somebody define something for me that I already know, in a semi-condescending fashion (whether or not that was your intention)
I mean, even when people say "Read the manual" they are at least helping a little bit because they are pointing the person in the right direction. Some people are actually oblivious to the fact that many programs have documentation and being told to read the manual lets them know it's there.
Read my entire post (RMFP :-P). I said "Read the manual" not RTFM. This suggests that the person did point them in the right direction and is being helpful because he is making the newbie aware of the documentation. I'm sorry that one time one guy said RTFM out of context to you, but that's the way people are.

Oh I understand that you didn't say RTFM, what I meant was that even though I agree that we should point out the manual we should be careful not to offend people. I was simply commenting in the context of what you were saying. Not in direct contradiction to what you were saying.

however there are also some people who say RTFM without realizing the full scope of the situation or the context in which it was being asked.

(RMFP :-P). back at ya buddy (all in jest of course)

Arch Linux

#1 2006-08-23 08:54:40

Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#2 2006-08-23 09:01:31

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#3 2006-08-23 09:08:52

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#4 2006-08-23 09:24:31

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#5 2006-08-23 10:04:24

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#6 2006-08-23 10:41:42

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#7 2006-08-23 11:09:13

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#8 2006-08-23 14:57:55

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#9 2006-08-24 00:37:53

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#10 2006-08-24 01:34:13

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#11 2006-08-24 03:41:19

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#12 2006-08-24 17:46:01

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#13 2006-08-25 23:54:12

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#14 2006-08-26 14:29:50

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#15 2006-08-26 15:18:55

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#16 2006-08-26 16:39:22

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#17 2006-08-27 03:40:53

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#18 2006-08-27 11:02:38

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#19 2006-08-27 11:25:45

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#20 2006-08-27 11:39:15

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#21 2006-09-20 12:58:21

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#22 2006-09-20 14:09:57

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#23 2006-09-20 22:02:08

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#24 2006-09-21 00:04:05

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

#25 2006-09-21 00:50:16

Re: Arch users are "techie snobs"!

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