How to organize your desktop?

Lontronics · 2006-09-03 20:59:04

I was looking into the topic screenshots and wondering why a lot of the Linux users still use a setup which is not the same as Windows, but with a toolbar, normal menu at the left bottom, icons on the desktop etc.....

In the past years I have used several windowmanagers. I started with some alternatives about five years ago on my Windows system, and after I switched to Linux, I have used between 5 and 10 different windowmanagers inclusive KDE, Gnome, Ede, Icewm, Blackbox, Openbox, Fluxbox, Enlightment etc...

What is the best setup for a desktop you think?

In my opinion icons on the desktop are useless, especially when you have some programs open and the screen is filled with information.

The same for the toolbar. Although it is nice to have an organized toolbar with tabs to see which programs you have opened and to switch fast, there are other possibilities which are not using as much room.

So, I was wondering what other Linux users are thinking about this and do have better ideas...

Jan

jaboua · 2006-09-03 21:19:25

I agree about desktop icons, I stopped using them about a half year ago. I think taskbars come in handy though, as you can DnD between windows that cover each other and stuff...

Something I tried when I used openbox some months ago was having a popup systray - I used trayer, and had the dock autohide. Not sure what you think of it, but I loved it...

isez2001 · 2006-09-03 21:25:23

I agree that having lots of stuff on the desktop is lame. I despise a desktop covered with files and shortcuts, and have even gone so far as to disable desktop icons entirely a few times.

The Mac-style menubar, with the program menu at the top of the screen, is undeniably the most efficient design out there. By placing a button at the screen's edge, you make it infinitely "deep" on that one side, which allows you to throw the mouse cursor at it, and reach it more quickly.

In my experience, however, Mac fails miserably at launching programs. The dock is good for programs you use on a daily basis, but anything else you have to rummage through the finder. Generally, the program will be in the applications folder, or you can search for it pretty easily, but it's much more convenient to to just have a programs menu.

It's disappointing that Linux doesn't have a proper way to use such a menubar. There's a patch somewhere on the forums that lets you try it with GTK apps, but it's just a hack, and leaves a lot to be desired (wouldn't it be nice if we could put a program-menu applet on a Gnome panel? *sigh*)

Compiz also hopes to provide easier management of programs with its intuitive cube of workspaces, improved alt-tab funcionality, and expose` (another Apple invention)-like plugin.

allucid · 2006-09-03 22:23:03

I don't like application shortcuts on the desktop. I typically use the keyboard to launch apps (common ones are bound to keyboard shortcuts, gmrun handles the rest).

I don't like taskbars and I do not minimize apps. I think virtual desktops handles that much better. I sometimes forget what applications I have running and which desktop they are on so I need some visual representation. I've typically used a graphical pager but now I use visibility. Visibility also has some taskbar-ish functionality to it.

I use conky for feedback I deem important (laptop battery status, cup/ram usage, date and time). It sits alongside visibility at the top of my desktop and maximized windows do not cover it (or visibility). I find it easier to glance at stuff at the top of my screen than the bottom but it is a little buisier with the titlebars and stuff also located at the top. I also can click on the area where conky sits when other windows are maximized in order to lauch openbox menus if needed.

Lastly, I use trayer sitting on the other side of conky to take care of apps that have a systray icon (gaim, gmpc, azureus, etc.)

tomfitzyuk · 2006-09-03 23:01:20

I only like having the window of the program I use (no window decoration, why the hell are they even needed?) and a status bar which I use for the following:
load, RAM, current net usage (dl and ul), number of tcp connections, amount of mail in inbox), date/time.

I don't have a menu because I don't need one. Applications can be started through ion's 'run' program and the most common applications can be started with keystrokes.

I don't need a desktop, a shell is enough.

Since most applications I use are console-based, screen handles them. I only need two virtual desktops.

One for normal work (firefox + screen) and the other for monitoring (htop, netstat -tupc, netstat -tuclp).

NOTE: I haven't figured out how to remove window decorations in ion yet... unfortunately. If anybody knows how, please tell me

cdhotfire · 2006-09-03 23:27:20

tomfitzyuk wrote:

I only like having the window of the program I use (no window decoration, why the hell are they even needed?) and a status bar which I use for the following:
load, RAM, current net usage (dl and ul), number of tcp connections, amount of mail in inbox), date/time.
I don't have a menu because I don't need one. Applications can be started through ion's 'run' program and the most common applications can be started with keystrokes.
I don't need a desktop, a shell is enough.
Since most applications I use are console-based, screen handles them. I only need two virtual desktops.
One for normal work (firefox + screen) and the other for monitoring (htop, netstat -tupc, netstat -tuclp).
NOTE: I haven't figured out how to remove window decorations in ion yet... unfortunately. If anybody knows how, please tell me

Set the font to like 1?

I don't see how taking them off is beneficial thought.

But to the topic, I think that people should use what they are most comfortable with, linux is about choice, so it doesn't matter if you have icons in your desktop or not, it's what works for people. As everyone is different not everyone is going to find one window manager or style to be more of an advantage than the one they prefer.

I'm not trying to say this thread is bad, it's actually good, for some people who might not know about different things and might learn from it. But it does seem like it's getting a bit overhand with the bashing, so maybe tone it down a bit.

tomfitzyuk · 2006-09-03 23:28:55

More space. I don't need to know I'm running firefox or screen... I know I am

benplaut · 2006-09-04 01:07:14

I use a task bar (pypanel) because i'm used to it... starting programs is done using gmrun and 2 or 3 letter shortcuts (ff = firefox, etc)...

pretty much everything i do except web browsing and making presentations is in the terminal, and i just use alot of screen and detaching for managing that... a popup terminal is a dog's best friend.

pauldonnelly · 2006-09-04 02:47:13

It baffles me as well. I still haven't figured out what window decorations are for. In terms of screen space, Ratpoison is probably the ultimate WM, but I've dumped it for dwm even though I lose ten pixels or so of screen space to its little menu bar (which is pretty much useless... I should remove it.)

In my opinion, desktop icons, toolbars, window decorations and the like just get in the way. If there are so many windows on the screen that I need a taskbar to sort through them, I take it as a sign to add more virtual desktops.

Mr Green · 2006-09-04 06:35:10

What are dekstop icons lol

No I use pypanel ... no start menu button with a freakin' picute of a mouse on it

I stopped using Desktop Icons well ages ago (Dusty's fault!) not missed 'em

Anyway its up to the user what they want ;-) Taskbat Toolbar whatever so long as its Linux

onearm · 2006-09-04 09:56:30

I agree about the icons, I use them only when I'm in windows (the rare times I remember having still a win partition )

Personally, I still use a panel (pypanel or kde's kicker). It's all about having something handy and where you don't have to learn some keybindings to use it or to spend some time to learn such keys, but in this case being able to open apps and menu faster. It's a transition, from being a mouse-user to a keyboard-user. The more you are comfortable using the keyboard instead of the mouse, the more you'll end using lightweight wm (*box, ion, fwwm, pekwm etc.) and removing the desktop facilities (panels, icons).

I'm in the middle of this transition atm. There are thing which I honestly think are faster using an icon instead of a keyboard stroke (like the app icon on the panel) so it's very hard to find a good combination of the two world.

Lontronics · 2006-09-04 10:07:47

I think that the more you are familiair with Linux and you really know what you are doing, you want to get rid of the extended menu's like in Suse, Mandrake, etc....

In fact, it is faster then to start a program by a key combination or when it is a program you are using always, to put it in your startup script and use a simple menue for the rest of the programs.

I have always used toolbars, but now I have blackbox installed and the only think I am using the small toolbar for is switching between applications by using the mousewheel.
It took some time (two or three days), but when you know the possibilities it is faster then the normal setup with a toolbar, icons etc... like in icewm, kde, gnome, xfce etc...

Ofcourse it is a mather of taste, and for a lot of people the computer is a hobby too, where it is not only going about speed and functionality, but also a nice layout, nice buttons and a nice wallpaper.

liem · 2006-09-04 10:17:03

I've migrated from workstations to laptops, so mouse-centric stuff as desktops, icons and such I avoid as much as possible.

However I have a use for dwm's statusbar, it displays information and messages I always want available.

Tiling windowmanagers are the best thing since sliced bread. I work so much faster now days.

syd · 2006-09-04 10:26:09

I gave up icon when i started using linux. I find i get hundreds of them just build up.

As for taskbars i like a tiled desktop(s). But with start+X in pekwm you can scroll through the programs in all desktop which i somtimes use.

I think ion3 :twisted: or rp are more efficent wm's but others using my computer find them too hard to use.

detto · 2006-09-04 11:47:22

I gaveup desktop icons too. They're just work detaining imo.
Starting apps here is done by either shortcuts or a small icon launch bar (aka gnome-panel ).

What i dont get yet is why so many want to ONLY use keyboard? Or better: how they manage it, i see me all the time using mouse for some actions, like browsing in internet, or selecting another song in my music player (that obivously isn't a console-app) so im "stuck" at mouse+keyboard and i think using both elements is the fastest way

!! edit !! : is there a way to add the function i always wanted and that iirc only was available in pekwm, "fill available space" to metacity or any other wm? open fox for example? this is best tiling-wm-function imo that fits well in non-console-apps environementes and the like ...

cheers,
detto

ibrahim · 2006-09-04 13:01:54

detto wrote:

I gaveup desktop icons too. They're just work detaining imo.
Starting apps here is done by either shortcuts or a small icon launch bar (aka gnome-panel ).

Isn't a small icon launch bar basically the same thing as desktop icons?

Personally I haven't used desktop icons in quite a while, but it seems fairly obvious why people might use them. As soon as your pc starts you have access to (presumably) your most used apps without having to navigate a menu. To be honest, I'm sure that a lot of people dislike desk icons simply because they consider it windows/noob-ish

The openbox menu is just as useless with maximised windows but I don't think I've seen as many people knock that as I have desk icons

cmp · 2006-09-04 13:44:50

well in pekwm, you can access the root menu even if a window is maximised, you just need to target the screen border.

Lontronics · 2006-09-04 14:04:36

Same in Blackbox

mucknert · 2006-09-04 14:45:44

The Desktop/WIMP-Paradigm is nothing for me. I try to keep the clutter as minimal as possible after years of Gnome and KDE (which are, per se, not bad). So I've ended up in wmii and I like it because I
a) never use Icons.
b) never use a Start-Menu.
c) get work done faster by Keyboard alone.
Even in one of the big DE I was using Alt-F2 all the time instead of chasing the rodent around.

The only reason to use OpenBox (which is really great, too) is when someone else wants to use my Computer.

jaboua · 2006-09-04 15:35:06

ibrahim wrote:

Isn't a small icon launch bar basically the same thing as desktop icons?

Normal apps shouldn't cover the launch bars...

I agree on Alt-F2, I use it all the time...

luceroz · 2006-09-04 16:36:55

well i haven't used arch in a long time, but I wanted to post my thoughts on this topic anyway.

I have come to love the functionality and simplicity of tiling window managers, my favorites being DWM wmii, and larswm. these of course don't allow for icons or even a desktop wallpaper. all is wellwhen I use tiling WM.

I am however, guilty. I have a amd fx-55 powered machine with 2gigs of dual chanel ram, and a firegl video card. I feel the obligation to have some flashy full gnome or kde session with xgl and tons of eye candy.

it seems to me like there is a bit of a desktop mini-revolution going on with the rising popularity of tiling WM's. Its as if the resources needed for a modern desktop (under the aforementioned mini-revolution) have shrunk to that of the best of 1996, yet resources for apps such as wordprocessing (of all things!) and games keeps increasing faster than moore can keep up

so I think eventually a large portion of desktops (large enough for it to be "normal") will be this 'new' (to most people) tiling interface that stresses functionality over all. to me, form follows function has always been the mantra. I think it is function begets form.

EDIT: decided to add a point to my post:
chew on this:
if every subsect and purpose in programming has an upper echelon of efficiency, and said echelon is also the upper limit of what you cando per unit of quantifiable resources (RAM, cpu speed, etc...) without limiting yourself at all, then are tiling WM's the pinnacle of desktop interface programming? -- your thoughts please.

tomfitzyuk · 2006-09-04 16:47:21

if every subsect and purpose in programming has an upper echelon of efficiency, and said echelon is also the upper limit of what you cando per unit of quantifiable resources (RAM, cpu speed, etc...) without limiting yourself at all, then are tiling WM's the pinnacle of desktop interface programming? -- your thoughts please.

After running that through a deobfuscator, I understand what you're on about.

I don't thinking tiling WM's are the pinnacle of desktop interface programming but unfortunately, I don't know of anything better :

I figure a tiling WM with a few powerful hooks is pretty efficient though. I've been too lazy to properly configure my environment.

luceroz · 2006-09-04 16:56:27

tomfitzyuk wrote:

if every subsect and purpose in programming has an upper echelon of efficiency, and said echelon is also the upper limit of what you cando per unit of quantifiable resources (RAM, cpu speed, etc...) without limiting yourself at all, then are tiling WM's the pinnacle of desktop interface programming? -- your thoughts please.
After running that through a deobfuscator, I understand what you're on about.
I don't thinking tiling WM's are the pinnacle of desktop interface programming but unfortunately, I don't know of anything better :
I figure a tiling WM with a few powerful hooks is pretty efficient though. I've been too lazy to properly configure my environment.

well maybe the efficiency of a program could be defined as the combined efficiencyof the actual process and the users efficiency?

aquila_deus · 2006-09-04 16:57:38

isez2001 wrote:

It's disappointing that Linux doesn't have a proper way to use such a menubar. There's a patch somewhere on the forums that lets you try it with GTK apps, but it's just a hack, and leaves a lot to be desired (wouldn't it be nice if we could put a program-menu applet on a Gnome panel? *sigh*)

The biggest problem is that many gtk apps such as gaim and gimp have different menubars for different kinds of windows - And this totally screw up the mac menubar design (ex: you can't find "Quit" in gaim's chat window menubar). I have decided the hack, even with panel plugin and whatever features, can be nothing but a costly eyecandy. So I don't use it myself anymore. GNOME just doesn't work with that.

What we need now is a complete gnustep that can run all mac apps

ibrahim · 2006-09-04 22:55:41

jaboua wrote:

ibrahim wrote:
Isn't a small icon launch bar basically the same thing as desktop icons?
Normal apps shouldn't cover the launch bars...

True but don't most WMs let you set a margin for maximised windows? I say that a launch bar is still basically no more than arranged desk icons with a maximised app margin

Arch Linux

#1 2006-09-03 20:59:04

How to organize your desktop?

#2 2006-09-03 21:19:25

Re: How to organize your desktop?

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