Arch Linux

PeterLustknabePan

Member

Registered: 2022-01-31

Posts: 6

[Solved] Package "plasma-desktop" does not have xorg-server as dep

Hi,
I have worked through the installation guide and now I'm trying to install Plasma. I don't just want to blindly type any commands I find on the internet, instead I try to understand what is done behind the scenes. So I decided to install the lite version of plasma, "plasma-desktop". When I check the package here: https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x8 … a-desktop/

I see dependencies like xorg-server-devel etc. but when I type
pacman -S plasma-desktop and check the dependencies list, it doesn't appear. Fortunately the list is sorted by name.
Output:
...
             vulkan-icd-loader-1.2.203-1  wayland-1.20.0-1  webrtc-audio-processing-0.3.1-3  which-2.21-5
             x264-3:0.163.r3060.5db6aa6-1  x265-3.5-1  xcb-proto-1.14.1-5  xcb-util-0.4.0-3  xcb-util-cursor-0.1.3-3
             xcb-util-image-0.4.0-3  xcb-util-keysyms-0.4.0-3  xcb-util-renderutil-0.3.9-3  xcb-util-wm-0.4.1-3
             xdg-user-dirs-0.17-3  xdg-utils-1.1.3+19+g9816ebb-1  xfsprogs-5.14.2-1  xkeyboard-config-2.34-1
             xorg-xmessage-1.0.5-2  xorg-xprop-1.2.5-1  xorg-xrdb-1.2.1-1  xorg-xset-1.2.4-2  xorg-xsetroot-1.1.2-2
             xorgproto-2021.5-1  xvidcore-1.3.7-2  zimg-3.0.3-1  zxing-cpp-1.2.0-1  plasma-desktop-5.23.5-1

Gesamtgröße der installierten Pakete:  1730,46 MiB

So now I'm wondering:
1. Why is xorg-server / xorg-xinit not in the list for being installed?
2. Lets assume the package list is complete. Then how can I start plasma as it is? When I check the internet how to start it, "startx" is suggested but if I understand correctly this command comes with xorg-xinit, which isn't installed (command not found)

This site also states that xorg should be installed with plasma-desktop automatically: https://tuxinit.com/minimal-kde-plasma- … rch-linux/

What did I miss?
Thanks in advance!

Last edited by PeterLustknabePan (2022-01-31 10:22:21)

Scimmia

Fellow

Registered: 2012-09-01

Posts: 13,729

Re: [Solved] Package "plasma-desktop" does not have xorg-server as dep

You can use it on Wayland, so it wouldn't really be a hard dep.

xorg-server is kind of a special case in Arch anyway. Very few things depend on it; if you want it, you need to install it and set it up yourself.

Ignore 3rd party guides. Always.

PeterLustknabePan

Member

Registered: 2022-01-31

Posts: 6

Re: [Solved] Package "plasma-desktop" does not have xorg-server as dep

But then I'm asking why aren't the dependencies installed that are listed for the package here: https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x8 … a-desktop/
For example most of the xorg packages are not listed when pacman -S plasma-desktop is called (I didn't check every dependendy of depenendency but I assume there are more that won't be installed, although they are listed as dependency on the package page).
Correct me if I'm wrong but when I install a package the list of dependencies that get installed is complete always?!

I know I can install and setup the stuff on my own, that's all no problem for me but I want to understand the discrepancy.

Which guides should I follow/trust, when not 3rd party ones?

Last edited by PeterLustknabePan (2022-01-31 01:46:15)

V1del

Forum Moderator

Registered: 2012-10-16

Posts: 25,293

Re: [Solved] Package "plasma-desktop" does not have xorg-server as dep

The wiki, and the answer is because they are not  dependencies of that package and whether you will "logically" have them on your system depends on choices you make and should be making consciously.

Both of the questions you have here are answered in: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/KDE#Starting_Plasma and the links going further depending on what you choose.

Learn to navigate the wiki, if a certain sentence seems overly short it is almost always accompanied to a link to more explanations.

Case in point, xinit is useless to people opting for a display manager, the xorg-server package is useless for people opting for a wayland session and so forth. These "soft" dependencies are things you make a conscious configuration decision about.

Last edited by V1del (2022-01-31 01:52:15)

PeterLustknabePan

Member

Registered: 2022-01-31

Posts: 6

Re: [Solved] Package "plasma-desktop" does not have xorg-server as dep

I have worked through this wiki page and what you say is not true. When I install plasma-desktop I can't use it out of the box because you will ned either xorg or sddm which are both not installed as part of plasma-desktop. The wiki page does not state this, instead it assumes there is a command startx when starting plasma via console but there isn't, so this information is lacking.

And you say xorg-server or xorg-server-devel and other packages is not a dependency of this package. Can you explain why it is listed here as dependency: https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x8 … a-desktop/
I should mention that I work with linux since yesterday so I'm sorry if I ask annoying questions. I'm aware of the need of ddm and that it supports wayland aswell but I just want to know why I can't use plasma-desktop out of the box, why it does not install xorg, so I can use startx and why the listed dependencies on package page does not match the output I get when i install plasma-desktop?

The last question is the most important one.

EDIT: ok it states in the first sentence: "Before installing Plasma, make sure you have a working Xorg installation on your system."

Last edited by PeterLustknabePan (2022-01-31 02:04:23)

V1del

Forum Moderator

Registered: 2012-10-16

Posts: 25,293

Re: [Solved] Package "plasma-desktop" does not have xorg-server as dep

The dependency you are seeing is a make dependency which is needed during compilation. Runtime dependencies can be and are different here. The wiki does indeed not state this but it has links to further pages, so  if the single instruction given confuses you or does indeed "not work". that's a sign that you need to click on that link to get more information.

For the general information of "why are things not just working", is that Arch is designed in such a way that you can combine components granted you understand their relation to each other.

If this feels overwhelming to you, you should consider starting with a different distribution that gives you predetermined packages. Arch is in general not really tuned for an "out of the box" experience.

The semantics here aren't going to change, if your question is whether the current dependencies of that one package are correct, then yes they are and yes you are expected to make the choice of whether you want to install xorg-server to make use of X as your display server, as is explained in the section I linked and the links leading to further sections

Last edited by V1del (2022-01-31 02:16:43)

PeterLustknabePan

Member

Registered: 2022-01-31

Posts: 6

Re: [Solved] Package "plasma-desktop" does not have xorg-server as dep

ok thanks. Arch is exactly what I'm looking for, I dont' want a bloated out-of-the-box working distribution. I'm just on the road to understand how things are related to each other, and that's the only overwhelming thing for me.
Can I ask some off topic questions?

When I use pacman --needed...does it mean when the package I want to install would require a newer/older version of a dependency as the one I have already installed, it wouldn't install it because it is already installed? That's how I have understood it. And what if I omit --needed and some dependencies of this package I want to install are already installed...are then multiple versions of the dependency installed or does the version of the depnendency of the package replace the already installed dependency?

Last edited by PeterLustknabePan (2022-01-31 02:34:15)

V1del

Forum Moderator

Registered: 2012-10-16

Posts: 25,293

Re: [Solved] Package "plasma-desktop" does not have xorg-server as dep

No, the --needed flag simply skips packages that are already installed and already at the latest version if you pass them as explicit targets (i.e. you explicitly list them during the relevant transaction/install option). Dependency resolution is unaffected by this and pacman does indeed not install already installed dependencies again. E.g. I often use this if I want to check whether a group has added new packages that might interest me, assuming I have the entire plasma group installed, a

pacman -S plasma --needed

will skip everything that's already installed and only show new packages of the group which I can then decide to install, or not.

While we are at the topic of dependency resolution, make sure you stay clear of some commands: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/System … nsupported

There are in general not multiple versions of dependencies unless it's absolutely unavoidable. Whenever a dependency receives an update that the existing packages need a rebuild for then all packages are rebuilt for the new dependency and then pushed to the repos at the same time. Which is one of the main reasons for the above caution with regards to partial updates.

However if you consider the original question answered consider marking the topic as [SOLVED] by editing the title in your first post and making new threads for new questions. It's good that you try to learn how these things interact with each other but yes sometimes the package dependencies "depend" on things you have decided to do that you need to inject your personal decisions into.

PeterLustknabePan

Member

Registered: 2022-01-31

Posts: 6

Re: [Solved] Package "plasma-desktop" does not have xorg-server as dep

Good example, thank you very much!