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#1 2022-04-29 12:28:17

BlackarchNet
Member
From: Allentown
Registered: 2022-04-11
Posts: 23

Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

As the title says, still fn around with different Installation methods, which is better Chrooting into a new system or NSpawning, following the "Bullet Proof Arch install" on the Wiki, and what makes either the better choice for a Non-standard setup (FDE, boot partition on a flash, and using Dracut to generate an Fstab instead of Cpio) Thanks all.

Edit: Bonus  extra point question if able to answer, Someone explain to me the difference between SELinux & Linux Hardened, as well as Zen to the Xanmods (edge, lts etc) I'm fully aware Arch doesn't support Unofficial kernels, I just wanna know the differences, cuz the way Xanmods is worded, basically sounds like Zen to me, Just an unofficial version, same with SE, just seems like an unofficial Hardened kernel, at least that's how it appears to me, feel free to correct me if I'm off.

Last edited by BlackarchNet (2022-04-29 12:41:39)


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#2 2022-04-29 12:52:41

Slithery
Forum Moderator
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: 2013-12-01
Posts: 5,239

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

BlackarchNet wrote:

following the "Bullet Proof Arch install" on the Wiki,

Which page is this? Searching the wiki doesn't bring up any results.


No, it didn't "fix" anything. It just shifted the brokeness one space to the right. - jasonwryan
Closing -- for deletion; Banning -- for muppetry. - jasonwryan

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#3 2022-04-29 13:11:58

kokoko3k
Member
Registered: 2008-11-14
Posts: 2,283

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/User:Altercation/Bullet_Proof_Arch_Install wrote:

The Arch Linux community does not offer support for the information contained in this page; for installation procedures, the Installation guide is the only officially supported document.The content below is mainly maintained by User:Altercation, who last reviewed it on 11 December 2016, and it may be out of date or inaccurate.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Installation_guide wrote:

[..]
Change root into the new system:
# arch-chroot /mnt
[..]


Help me to improve ssh-rdp !

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#4 2022-04-29 13:52:45

BlackarchNet
Member
From: Allentown
Registered: 2022-04-11
Posts: 23

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/User:A … ch_Install

It's still accurate, I know this first hand as I usually follow that guide and mix in other guides for a more personal install as opposed to the same guide everybody uses, it's FDE, mounting BTRFS subvolumes directly instead of mounting the usual basic LVM/2 volume/mapper. Just wanna know about NSpawn and asking which is better for a non standard system, some believe In K.i.s.s, I personally love Arch being the most bleeding Edge OS/distro far too much to keep my system just simple.

Last edited by BlackarchNet (2022-04-29 14:17:19)


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#5 2022-04-29 15:31:25

Slithery
Forum Moderator
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: 2013-12-01
Posts: 5,239

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

What additional functionality that systemd-nspawn provides do you need to use that would make any difference in installing your system?


No, it didn't "fix" anything. It just shifted the brokeness one space to the right. - jasonwryan
Closing -- for deletion; Banning -- for muppetry. - jasonwryan

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#6 2022-04-29 15:40:52

Trilby
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Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 26,701
Website

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

Just to be clear, are you asking this community which is a better installation method between the one created, maintained, and endorsed by this community, or a different one made by some random arch user (and not maintained for the last 6 years)?  Do you expect the answer "yeah, we deliberately made an installation guide that we believed was sub-par."

Now obviously the author of that other method thinks their way is better at least for some circumstances.  But you'd have to ask them why that is.  Notably:

"Bullet proof" guide (emphasis added) wrote:

I have a strong set of opinions about the "right" or "best practice" way to set up my own working systems.

They can certainly have their own opinions, but again, were not really equipped to tell you what the opinions of that author are: ask them.  They did reveal one bit relevant to the question of this thread:

"Bullet proof" guide wrote:

I skip arch-chroot and simply boot the new system (not reboot, just boot) from within the install environment using systemd-nspawn(1) which enables the *ctl commands to work (and systemd services to be enabled properly without need for a system reboot)

So you should ask yourself two questions 1) are these benefits of value to you, and 2) are these alleged benefits even true?!  (really, don't skip the second question there).

Last edited by Trilby (2022-04-29 15:43:55)


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#7 2022-04-29 20:02:55

jasonwryan
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From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 29,997
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Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

OP keeps asking about this unsupported guide simply because it has "bulletproof" in the title, which is catnip for fools, and sadly, because it is hosted on the wiki. I argued at the time that it should have been deleted, but because it is in a user's namespace, it is considered inviolate. This, of course, is naive, because the only reason the user put it there was to legitimise it by association, and as such it does, and continues to do, a disservice to the community. Which is why we are all wasting our time answering these threads.


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#8 2022-04-29 20:12:25

Zod
Member
From: Hoosiertucky
Registered: 2019-03-10
Posts: 539

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

I'm Not sure why it's put up with, this d00ds' been banned twice that I know of.


edit: To be clear, I'm talking about the OP.

Last edited by Zod (2022-04-29 23:46:58)

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#9 2022-04-29 23:20:54

Trilby
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Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 26,701
Website

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

Oh, FML, that page is from shoober420.  Don't touch that "guide" with a 10 foot pole.

Last edited by Trilby (2022-04-30 00:00:15)


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#10 2022-04-30 01:27:48

BlackarchNet
Member
From: Allentown
Registered: 2022-04-11
Posts: 23

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

I've been banned twice? Not that I'm aware of, and who tf is Shoober420, Ive never used that un in my life, and it looks as tho there's nobody else commenting with that name either, So I'll assume ur confusing me with someone else, in which case your mistaken, sorry to say, just a user who is never satisfied with his setup, I'm always installing different systems, breaking them, reinstalling, and that guide some of you are kicking up a fuss about, I'm barely using it, mostly it's a reference for command that I can't remember, I'm not using the Bulletproof alone, I usually get ideas from multiple and then add my twist, mess with different cipher options and features, and as for what I wanna accomplish someone asked for asking about NSpawn, I like trying different things, the more complicated the better and  I hate the Kiss philosophy, this is Arch if I wanted simplicity I would've stayed with Windows, I'm far from a new Arch user believe it or not, regardless of what the account or post history says, I just love getting ideas and opinions to implement. Side note, this forum needs to lighten up, I get not answering questions regarding unofficial software...or guides but the question is about supported packages so chill, I know the Arch standard guide, it sucks, and is as basic as you can get, offering little in the way of diversity, or customization, ideas, examples, also it's funny one guy brought up that BP is out of date, ok that's fine, are the packages it lists as examples outdated? Pacman doesnt seem to think they are.

Edit: JasonW, and ur point is what,? That you know how to click someone's profile? That's cool, I prefer listening to music or reading articles, but to each their own.

Last edited by BlackarchNet (2022-04-30 01:36:19)


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#11 2022-04-30 01:34:54

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 26,701
Website

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

BlackarchNet wrote:

I've been banned twice?

No one said any such thing.  The post that referred to someone being banned twice had an edit to make it explicitly clear they were talking about the author of the "bulletproof" guide not (necessarily) you - and that edit came 2 hours before your current reply.  So you definitely saw it, yet decided to latch on to something you could object to. (edit: it seems I misread that edit...)

BlackarchNet wrote:

and who tf is Shoober420

No one said it was you - I clearly said that Shoober420 is the author of the bulletproof guide which is, again, not (necessarily) you.

However, the fact that you are defensive about these claims you feel are aimed at you when they were very clearly and unambiguously aimed at the author of the bulletproof guide speaks volumes (doth protest too much).

Last edited by Trilby (2022-04-30 01:57:18)


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#12 2022-04-30 01:45:15

BlackarchNet
Member
From: Allentown
Registered: 2022-04-11
Posts: 23

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

Zod wrote:

I'm Not sure why it's put up with, this d00ds' been banned twice that I know of.


edit: To be clear, I'm talking about the OP.

BlackarchNet wrote:

Never been banned, if I was banned you wouldn't be able to see this, or I would think my IP & any Account associated would be blocked, and I would also think my username would have some something indicating it was, none of which are the case, do keep me in your thoughts tho, wouldn't wanna keep being accused of what is not possible on the Arch Forums.


"Victims aren't we all"

"Hail to the King"

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#13 2022-04-30 02:02:19

BlackarchNet
Member
From: Allentown
Registered: 2022-04-11
Posts: 23

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

Trilby wrote:
BlackarchNet wrote:

I've been banned twice?

No one said any such thing.  The post that referred to someone being banned twice had an edit to make it explicitly clear they were talking about the author of the "bulletproof" guide not (necessarily) you - and that edit came 2 hours before your current reply.  So you definitely saw it, yet decided to latch on to something you could object to.

BlackarchNet wrote:

and who tf is Shoober420

No one said it was you - I clearly said that Shoober420 is the author of the bulletproof guide which is, again, not (necessarily) you.

However, the fact that you are defensive about these claims you feel are aimed at you when they were very clearly and unambiguously aimed at the author of the bulletproof guide speaks volumes (doth protest too much).  As does your posting style.  While concrete evidence is apparently lacking, it's quite clear to me who you are and why you're here.

Do tell, who am I? Just an arch user who has been annoyed at this forum audience, as I asked a question, a few gave relevant responses I appreciate but most have no reason to be setting my notifications off but not contributing to the discussion in any meaningful way, misunderstood, cuz somebody said OP (I think they meant OP as in publisher of this question, that being me) so I incorrectly assumed u also Meant me, my apologies, sometimes I have a hard time differentiating Trolls from other users, also I don't read everything posted, particularly if they don't address who they're talking to.

Last edited by BlackarchNet (2022-04-30 02:09:27)


"Victims aren't we all"

"Hail to the King"

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#14 2022-04-30 02:14:18

BlackarchNet
Member
From: Allentown
Registered: 2022-04-11
Posts: 23

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

Thanks to the few who contributed ur thoughts, everyone else thanks for wasting my time, this is why I repeat questions, cuz nobody actually answers just writing Bs for bs sake, this is a community for discussion, so discuss or don't respond, simple as that, K.I.S.S right?

Last edited by BlackarchNet (2022-04-30 02:16:20)


"Victims aren't we all"

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#15 2022-04-30 02:49:34

Slithery
Forum Moderator
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: 2013-12-01
Posts: 5,239

Re: Which is the better way to Chroot, Arch Chroot or NSpawn, and why?

Closing at OP's request.


No, it didn't "fix" anything. It just shifted the brokeness one space to the right. - jasonwryan
Closing -- for deletion; Banning -- for muppetry. - jasonwryan

aur - dotfiles

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