A recommended software to initiate a 5 year old to programming?

Laserpithium · 2022-09-11 12:14:31

Well, everything is in the title!
I am looking for recommendations/advices on a software to start initiating kids (I have a 5 year old at home) to programming. Or at least the basics of it.
I saw several interesting stuff on the net, but would prefer something open-source.

Trilby · 2022-09-11 14:46:22

Caveate: I have no kids, but I have a background in eductaiton and teaching.

I believe it's not until 7-8 years old when a typical child is physically equipped for typing and that level of interaction with computers. So I gather you are looking at more image-based and / or drag-and-drop interactions, is this the case?

If so, I'd actually stick with the more "old school" approaches including physical puzzles like a rubik's cube. Learning to solve a 3x3 cube is a great way to break down a larger problem into step-by-step components with conditional elements ... in other words, thinking algorithmically. There are good resources on line to help learn to solve rubik's cubes. Once learned, one can then teach the skill to others - and if one writes out their own instructions on solving the cube, they have written a "program" in plain language with flow-control statements, loops, conditionals, etc that is designed to solve a particular problem. I believe this is far more valuable than any of the packages that use the drag-and-drop visual blocks to make a robot arm move.

Last edited by Trilby (2022-09-13 13:11:16)

ezacaria · 2022-09-13 06:12:01

I tend to agree with Trilby, although I also have no kids.

5 years old may be too small for the "typical" open source recommendations. In the meanwhile, Trilby's recommendations about the Rubik's cube sound pretty good.

I have a fond memory of the Turtle graphics from Atari Logo, back in the 80s, but I could not find the recommended age range for KTurtle.

rechargetheowl · 2022-09-14 11:35:47

it's not really open source, but scratch is the first thing that comes to mind.

it's absolutely horrible for trying to do anything serious with, but for kids it's great. very visually focused, it's all drag-and-drop, that kinda stuff

Last edited by rechargetheowl (2022-09-14 11:46:05)

Allan · 2022-09-14 11:42:19

Code Monkey - my daughter and I did that, though she was a bit older. Teaches logic behind programming without programming. I found it slightly better than scratch.

ngoonee · 2022-09-15 02:17:28

I got my kids to try scratch and it was (in my mind) horrendous, they ended up treating it as painting/story-telling rather than programming. The school got the older one to do code.org, which is pretty bare bones, and some games like Rabbids Coding were fun and instilled fairly good logic basis I would guess. However it does seem to me that my kids aren't yet interested in the way I used to be, so I haven't really pursued many options beyond the above (they seem much more interested in the arts than I ever was).

ewaller · 2022-09-15 13:47:52

5 years old is pretty young; mine were still figuring out cause, effect and consequences at that point. When they get to the point of starting to grasp cartesian coordinates, my girls became fascinated with turtle graphics.

Slithery · 2022-09-15 14:25:41

ewaller wrote:

When they get to the point of starting to grasp cartesian coordinates, my girls became fascinated with turtle graphics.

Now that brings back some memories, my introduction to programming was controlling a Valiant turtle at school using Logo on a BBC Model B.

seth · 2022-09-15 15:06:16

A "Big Black Computer"?

We were also reated to Niki (int. "Karol") the robot, but I'd consider these things more like intermediary steps to present the idea that abstract and formalized descriptions of instructions can be turned into actions.

Otherwise I'd chime in and suggest pipe puzles, sudoku, lego (w/ or w/o the programmable motor units) and even lemmings pingus.
Programming isn't a craft like bricklaying, you cannot train people to be "programmers", that's BS actionism.

It's the art of understanding a problem, breaking it down into it's elements, coming up w/ solution vectors for every node, breaking those down into their elements and arranging those steps consistently and conclusively for a machine to execute. Engineering, but in software - almost like "software engineering"
The more natural this comes to you, the easier it gets.

So teach them to solve increasingly complex problems - and ideally not all in front of a display.

The most important part is that they *want* to do this, so allow them to work on problems that interest *them*.
We learn by curiosity and if there's no interest in the outcome of the effort, we get bored regardless of the tools shinyness.
And kids tend to have like no attention span whatsoever to rely on.

At some point they need to learn about the concpet of transferring abstract text descriptions into actions which is where the turtle & karol/niki approaches are good at, because you get to move cute things across the screen as instant gratification.

Laserpithium · 2022-09-16 18:56:34

Thanks guys for all your suggestions!

I had a look to Scratch, which looks indeed promising... but maybe in a year or two (the kid does not know how to read yet).
So will probably continue a bit with the lego and other type of construction games for the moment, before moving to programming.

ngoonee · 2022-09-18 03:07:01

seth wrote:

The most important part is that they *want* to do this, so allow them to work on problems that interest *them*.
We learn by curiosity and if there's no interest in the outcome of the effort, we get bored regardless of the tools shinyness.
And kids tend to have like no attention span whatsoever to rely on.

As a parent, the last sentence here is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! Kids have no attention span for boring ('important' according to us) things, but the right activity and they can absolutely pay attention for hours on end. Differs from child to child (my eldest literally forgets everything else when reading books, my youngest when building Legos) of course, but the attention span/focus is there, but for things they like.

seth · 2022-09-18 06:10:42

Kids have no attention span for boring ('important' according to us) things, but the right activity and they can absolutely pay attention for hours on end.

Maybe I expressed it poorly, but that's pretty much also what I said - or meant.

Shall we say "forced attention span" or "discipline"?

Trilby · 2022-09-18 13:26:30

seth wrote:

Kids have no attention span for boring ('important' according to us) things, but the right activity and they can absolutely pay attention for hours on end.
Maybe I expressed it poorly, but that's pretty much also what I said - or meant.

I don't think this is at all specific to children. Adults only like to pretend we're any better at such things. Perhaps we are more willing to suffer through the discomfort - so children are simply less masochistic.

But then again, I didn't read your entire previous posts

ewaller · 2022-09-18 17:00:39

Trilby wrote:

I don't think this is at all specific to children. Adults only like to pretend we're any better at such things. Perhaps we are more willing to suffer through the discomfort - so children are simply less masochistic.

Agreed. One of the things I took away from raising children -- interacting with them and their friends -- is that children have every bit the intelligence as do adults. Their ability to connect abstract concepts and extend upon them is astounding. The only thing they lack relative to adults are years of experience upon which they can draw.

seth · 2022-09-18 19:23:33

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_g … e_lifespan

The OP wrote:

I have a 5 year old at home

abc12345 · 2022-09-21 09:42:24

ngoonee wrote:

As a parent, the last sentence here is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! Kids have no attention span for boring ('important' according to us) things, but the right activity and they can absolutely pay attention for hours on end. Differs from child to child (my eldest literally forgets everything else when reading books, my youngest when building Legos) of course, but the attention span/focus is there, but for things they like.

This is a great point. You can also teach skill blocks to prepare for programming by doing less related things. Programming is built upon universal building blocks like logical reasoning, problem solving, modular approaches, etc that can be taught in a variety of activities.
I would, however, suggest exposure to electronic components from age 5 or even earlier. If you haven't stuck metal tweezers into a 220V outlet and get electrocuted by holding metal connectors of a plug at age 3 and 6 then you don't have an intimate relationship with electricity. And electricity is what runs computers (and brains). Pick apart a cheap radio and make sounds come out of the speaker. Connect bulbs/diodes to a battery and flash some lights. Get creative and fun with electronics and graduate to more complex and fun things.

sabroad · 2022-09-21 11:16:04

Laserpithium wrote:

software to start initiating kids (I have a 5 year old at home) to programming.

At this age, children are still discovering the world through physical interaction and anthropomorphic play. I'd suggest robotics as a cute introduction to sequential logic, eg. https://botzeestoys.com/collections/all … tzees-mini .

seth · 2022-09-21 14:12:40

abc12345 wrote:

If you haven't stuck metal tweezers into a 220V outlet and get electrocuted by holding metal connectors of a plug at age 3 and 6 then you don't have an intimate relationship with electricity.

Happened to you?
…

abc12345 · 2022-09-21 14:23:45

seth wrote:

Happened to you?
…

I'm tttttotttally ffffine. How can you tell?
I also licked various voltage wires many times as a kid.

Arch Linux

#1 2022-09-11 12:14:31

A recommended software to initiate a 5 year old to programming?

#2 2022-09-11 14:46:22

Re: A recommended software to initiate a 5 year old to programming?

#3 2022-09-13 06:12:01

Re: A recommended software to initiate a 5 year old to programming?

#4 2022-09-14 11:35:47

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#5 2022-09-14 11:42:19

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#6 2022-09-15 02:17:28

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#7 2022-09-15 13:47:52

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#8 2022-09-15 14:25:41

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#9 2022-09-15 15:06:16

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#10 2022-09-16 18:56:34

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#11 2022-09-18 03:07:01

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#12 2022-09-18 06:10:42

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#13 2022-09-18 13:26:30

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#14 2022-09-18 17:00:39

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#15 2022-09-18 19:23:33

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#16 2022-09-21 09:42:24

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#17 2022-09-21 11:16:04

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#18 2022-09-21 14:12:40

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#19 2022-09-21 14:23:45

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