Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

maboleth · 2023-01-07 10:31:17

Hello,

I'm not exactly new to Arch, but it's been a while since I installed it from scratch again.
Since USB Live Arch is running out of the box without any networking setup, I assume a lot of newbies faced the exact same issue as me. Internet was working on live, I created a hostname, thinking that would be enough for everything else and then faced the wall after restart.

Arch install Wiki emphasizes on making a hostname, even though that's not particularly necessary, if at all, yet dhcpcd install is buried under separate Network Configuration article that is only mentioned deeper in the wiki.

I completely forgot how dhcpcd was essential in Arch/Linux to work, so I was going back and forth, figuring what was needed, as no internet is almost a dead-end for further customization and DE install.

Now, I wish this was either included by the "base" install on default or maybe wiki should have pointed out this more, as everyone with dynamic IPs need this.

Last edited by maboleth (2023-01-07 10:35:50)

V1del · 2023-01-07 10:54:52

Why should it be doing this? I do not have dhcpcd installed as I'm using a different dhcp provider, there's absolutely no requirement for it, using that over systemd-networkd or over networkmanager or over... Is just as much a personal choice you are taking as anything else. The wiki does point it out in the same way it points most of these personal choices out, by having two links under the https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Instal … figuration section guiding you to further options from which you can choose which one to use.

The real newbies won't face the same issue, they'll just use archinstall which makes a bunch of choices for them...

Last edited by V1del (2023-01-07 10:57:51)

3beb6e7c46a615a · 2023-01-07 10:58:25

dhcpd is by no means essential, and definitely not required for dynamic IPs. NetworkManager and systemd-networkd do DHCP on their own, without dhcpd, and they aren't exactly unpopular.

hoerbert · 2023-01-07 11:04:58

maboleth wrote:

[...]maybe wiki should have pointed out this more, as everyone with dynamic IPs need this.

The wiki explicitly states:

Complete the network configuration for the newly installed environment. That may include installing suitable network management software.

with "network configuration" and "network management" being links to the "deeper" articles. What more do you want?

Last edited by hoerbert (2023-01-07 11:05:28)

maboleth · 2023-01-07 11:25:23

My bad then. I wonder why systemd-networkd wasn't enabled or mentioned, since it is included in the base install and is at your disposal right away.

As you have seen, I was completely oblivious of it until now. This is trivial and no brainer from this state, but at the install time, after long hiatus, I wasted quite a bit of time to figure this out.

Maybe just emphasize in the installation wiki that internet probably won't work after restart unless the user explicitly starts or installs the required services, as the live USB does not equal the installed version, which probably had systemd-networkd pre-enabled. That was the thing that fooled me the most. I even thought my router went down and was my first check.

maboleth · 2023-01-07 11:32:59

hoerbert wrote:

with "network configuration" and "network management" being links to the "deeper" articles. What more do you want?

Yes, as I said, internet was working out of the box on Live. Installation wiki mentions "Connect to the internet" in pre-install as well. But when your internet is working ootb, you skip that section as it's checked already.

In that sense, I expected internet to work after restart, just as it did on Live and didn't think I'd need to start/install something further. That's all.

Adriik · 2023-01-07 11:54:47

Maybe just emphasize in the installation wiki that internet probably won't work after restart unless the user explicitly starts or installs the required services,

From the Installation Guide:

The base package does not include all tools from the live installation, so installing other packages may be necessary for a fully functional base system. In particular, consider installing:
. . .
software necessary for networking (e.g. a network manager or DHCP client),
. . .

And then:

Complete the network configuration for the newly installed environment. That may include installing suitable network management software.

And then you have links with information about how to setup a network to well... have a network connection.
It's not an obscure secret, the wiki says clearly that you need to configure your network, and provides information on how to do it.
When I installed Arch, I had little experience with Linux (1 year with an "easy-distro"), so, beeing a newbie, I was able to configure my network. So, that isn't a excuse.

You installed Arch, forgot to configure the network, and there's no internet. No problem, boot again the live iso, mount your partitions and configure the network.
I don't know why you "wish", or force, a network configuration in the base install. What happens if the default configuration isn't for me, and I want something different? And if I don't want to have a network connection? you're forcing me to install something I don't want.

Slithery · 2023-01-07 16:53:03

maboleth wrote:

Arch install Wiki emphasizes on making a hostname, even though that's not particularly necessary, if at all

Setting your hostname correctly is definitely necessary, your system will be broken if you don't do so.

genji · 2023-08-13 03:27:06

agree, now because i can't get online i tried booting the recovery iso. after i do chroot /mnt bash i can't do pacman -S dhcpcd , it fails , says it cannot open /etc/mtab to determine my filesystem info??

Trilby · 2023-08-13 03:57:13

Because you did not mount the API filesystems which is clearly stated as necessary in the chroot page for the wiki - that is if you are planning to use chroot directly rather than arch-chroot (I'd strongly suggest the latter). In either case, the root cause of the problem is the same as the original one here (and in your other thread): you are not reading carefully and / or you are skipping steps.

EDIT: wait, this isn't even your thread - so you're hijacking / crossposting just to complain more?

Last edited by Trilby (2023-08-13 03:58:43)

seth · 2023-08-13 06:33:46

"This was my mistake.", says your conscience.
"This cannot have been my mistake, it's somebody elses fault!", says your pride.
Finally - the conscience caves.
~~~ Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, 1886

2ManyDogs · 2023-08-13 11:14:35

genji, please do not necrobump, and do not hijack.

The OP has not been back since February, so I am going to consider this thread abandoned and close it now.

Arch Linux

#1 2023-01-07 10:31:17

Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#2 2023-01-07 10:54:52

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#3 2023-01-07 10:58:25

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#4 2023-01-07 11:04:58

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#5 2023-01-07 11:25:23

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#6 2023-01-07 11:32:59

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#7 2023-01-07 11:54:47

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#8 2023-01-07 16:53:03

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#9 2023-08-13 03:27:06

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#10 2023-08-13 03:57:13

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#11 2023-08-13 06:33:46

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

#12 2023-08-13 11:14:35

Re: Why Arch doesn't include dhcpd at the install?

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