I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

rajibando · 2023-05-21 07:18:09

Hello, the senior members and administrators of Archlinux,

I have not yet downloaded Archlinux iso. I am planning to, and install Arch. What I liked in arch was the wikis which are far better than those in Debian and more numerous.

I have been using Knoppix wholly by 2007 and Knoppix and Debian by 2008. No more going back to Doze.

I request some information on the ISO image. Is it Live? That is, can the OS be booted and run from the ISO itself? To have an initial feel of the system?

Are there resources like ebooks and webpages for manuals, handbooks and instructions other than the wikis, like there are in Debian, like https://www.debian.org/doc/?

There is a kernel handbook available in: Linux Kernel internals
https://kernel-team.pages.debian.net/kernel-handbook/
What I need is a book far detailed than this one.

Is there a system like apt or synaptic Package Manager to install packages in Arch?

What is actually a Vagrant Cloud? Is it Cloud Computing? Can I have the main OS running from the cloud and only the essential files residing in my personal computer?

I have so many questions and am so curious to know about what Arch can do.

Please consider me a learner and feel free to inform me.

Best wishes,
Rajib

Last edited by rajibando (2023-05-21 07:30:49)

Awebb · 2023-05-21 07:49:31

You should go to https://wiki.archlinux.org/ and read all the main articles in the category "1. The distribution".

The iso is a live iso, but it has no GUI. There is no initial feel of the system, because Arch doesn't have defaults.

What is vagrant cloud is only a single query for "vagrant cloud" away. I can't phrase it better than the official page or the wikipedia article.

There is no kernel handbook and I don't understand what exactly you need this for. There is a kernel wiki article and bug reporting is explained elsewhere in the wiki.

That /doc page looks a lot like the front page of our wiki.

rajibando · 2023-05-21 10:29:10

Thank you, Awebb, for your reply to my post.

Awebb wrote:

You should go to https://wiki.archlinux.org/ and read all the main articles in the category "1. The distribution".

Ok. Fair enough. Other than the last few paragraphs, no idea on the environment that I would experience could be had. I read the rest from wikipedia to have at least some idea. It is like I have a girlfriend but have to know her more from her earlier paramours. Typical of ... . I then had the feel of your next line on no GUI.

Awebb wrote:

The iso is a live iso, but it has no GUI. There is no initial feel of the system, because Arch doesn't have defaults.

You mean if I try Arch by booting from the ISO I have to begin with a Dumb Terminal, and have no GUI environment? This appears to be a setback to my interest for Arch. Then aren't the Arch users interested in a GUI environment? Is there an easy way to install OpenBox Windows Manager on top of the dumb terminal? The Rolling Release is a fantastic idea. May the Debian developers be inspired by it!

For the rest of your sentences, I shall wait for other posts to have a more balanced view. I again thank you for your first reply to my queries.

Last edited by rajibando (2023-05-21 10:54:53)

Lone_Wolf · 2023-05-21 10:49:45

rajibando wrote:

You mean if I try Arch by booting from the ISO I have to begin with a Dumb Terminal, and have no GUI environment? This appears to be a setback to my enthusiasm.

An archlinux system is very much what you decide it will be, not what others have choosen .

Do you want to run lxqt, gnome , kde , xfce, i3 , sway , wayfire , fluxbox, awesome ? Maybe you want to have all of them available at login ?
Easy on archlinux .

My personal system uses X , lxqt + openbox , firefox, thunderbird, krusader, k3b, as little of gnome as possible, NO compositor , electron apps, chrome/blink based browsers , pulseaudio , pipewire, flaptpak, snaps, docker etc .
It's tailored to my unique demands and no one elses.

Have you ever done a netinstall of debian ? If so, that comes close to doing an archlinux install .

polarrr · 2023-05-21 11:02:42

I really recommend you invest your time looking into what Arch is. It kind of boggles my mind that you think not having GUI by default somehow depicts lack of interest in GUI environment. It's a barebone system, that's all there is to it. You add what you need, configure them the way you want them. That's it. And I'm not saying this to be elitist, but you will need to read through a lot of Wiki and other articles to get things set up in Arch, and if you haven't read up enough to know what Arch installation provides at the bare minimum, you will struggle every step of the way.

Awebb · 2023-05-21 11:35:46

I said there is no default GUI. Make the recommended reading. I'm also not sure what you mean by "more balanced view".

Trilby · 2023-05-21 12:26:09

Awebb wrote:

I'm also not sure what you mean by "more balanced view".

It's code for, "I don't like the answer I got, so I'll keep asking until I get one I like better".

The most fitting metaphor for the questions in this thread is that Arch Linux is like a box of legos. Saying that your box of legos doesn't come with the rocket ship pre-assembled is really missing the point of what legos are for and begs the question of whether legos are really what you want.

rajibando · 2023-05-21 12:43:33

polarrr wrote:

... but you will need to read through a lot of Wiki and other articles to get things set up in Arch, and if you haven't read up enough to know what Arch installation provides at the bare minimum, you will struggle every step of the way...

Ah, lovely, Mr. Polarrr, this is the crux of Arch! Thank you very much for giving me my crux. The best part being a "Rolling Release", I have to engage in the dirty work only once! As Lone_Wolf indicated, "... netinstall of debian ... comes close to doing an archlinux install ..." . Yes, I am now beginning to get the picture!

So I form my next relevant question: is the "Rolling Release" seamless and without any glitch? Quantitatively, how many failures in 100000 runs?

Trilby · 2023-05-21 12:51:49

rajibando wrote:

is the "Rolling Release" seamless and without any glitch? Quantitatively, how many failures in 100000 runs?

42

Morn · 2023-05-21 13:38:37

rajibando wrote:

So I form my next relevant question: is the "Rolling Release" seamless and without any glitch? Quantitatively, how many failures in 100000 runs?

I have been using Arch since 2012. The updates themselves usually work fine. If manual changes by the user are required, it will say so on the Arch Linux front page, so you need to check that from time to time.

However, the cutting-edge nature of Arch sometimes means having to block updates of a few packages. E.g. I am blocking xdg-desktop-portal-gnome right now because there is an issue with the latest version. I also use an older kernel because of amdgpu issues with 6.x. Briefly looking at active forum threads before you update is a good idea to avoid nasty surprises.

So I think Arch is pretty seamless if you take enough time for each update. But if you update in a hurry without checking the forum first, you may occasionally get bad updates that break things a little. Not "break" in the sense of data loss, but small annoyances, e.g. applications no longer starting, etc.

ewaller · 2023-05-21 16:30:42

One of the things not yet mentioned is that Arch Linux (in general) uses upstream code pretty much "as is" without adding much in the way of patches or branding. So, plasma, Gnome, i3, xfce, et al will pretty much look like their authors envisioned them.

As to seamless and without glitch? In my experience north of 95%. Those that don't go smoothly are either (a) I failed to do due diligence by not reading announcements, or (b) situations where something major happened in the infrastructure (gcc toolchain major revision, python major revision, GTK major revision). In the latter case, the solution involves waiting a day or two for changes to ripple through all impacted packages and to rebuild any packages that you have hand built against the new infrastructure.

rajibando · 2023-05-22 02:23:21

Thank you, Mr. Morn and Mr. ewaller, for your kind inputs. I must admit that I was never comfortable with Debian Net-Install and Tasksel. I am not sure if I could try pacman from my Debian set up to install Arch in another partition. Strangely, I found this information from Wikipedia page of Archlinux and not from Arch wiki. Wikipedia quotes a post:

...
An alternative to using CD or USB images for installation is to use the static version of the package manager Pacman, from within another Linux-based operating system. ...

I searched for a partial string in Google, but found none. I am doubtful if a similar post remains still valid today.

If I allowed myself speaking to myself during a glitch in my set up, I would have said, "if I have to read so much to have a mere OS installed like I want, when shall I be able to begin to continue with my work or enjoy life?". Some days when I am a little off and the forums don't help — and they don't help in many cases — the thought of reconsidering on Doze entices me. Of course, I quickly remember Rothschild comment to Tesla on free electricity and killing his project. But when I am surrounded by entities who are okay with bills on free air, and entities who direct reading everything without offering a possible fulcrum somewhere — empathy should not only be felt, it has to be expressed that it is being felt — I find myself lamenting my physical existence in the material world. I then remember Michael Talbot. Could be this was the experience that I was meant to have, the Tyranny of the Majority? And I also remember the Bell Curve at the time.

So please advise me, Mr. Morn and Mr. ewaller: should I go ahead with installing Arch Linux? Would I find support during installation?

Lone_Wolf · 2023-05-22 09:22:10

Strangely, I found this information from Wikipedia page of Archlinux and not from Arch wiki. Wikipedia quotes a post:

That is a very old page and the install tooling has changed since then .
The successor of that page is https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Instal … ting_Linux (note it has a sligthly different title) .

the forums don't help — and they don't help in many cases

These forums are great for getting customized answers for specific questions . Often those answers are useful for people with similar questions, but there's no guarantee for that.
This is your second topic, have you re-read the previous one ?

Offtopic :
It seems I never answered one of your questions in that other topic :

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1967395#p1967395 wrote:

I would also seek your permission to Email you a few relevant titbits.

Sending an email to me through the forum mailer is intentionally enabled by me. I read all mails send through the forum mailer, though I don't always reply to them.

Morn · 2023-05-22 09:45:50

rajibando wrote:

So please advise me, Mr. Morn and Mr. ewaller: should I go ahead with installing Arch Linux? Would I find support during installation?

Of course you could also consider Arch-based distros such as Manjaro or EndeavourOS. Installation should be easier and the forums (at least for Manjaro) seem very beginner-friendly to me.

Arch is a bit more time-consuming: You need to read the wiki, the forums, the update messages, etc. You need the time and willingness to learn about Linux. If you mainly want to install Linux quickly and then get on with your work/your applications, then something like Manjaro might be a better fit...

growler · 2023-05-22 10:12:02

Morn wrote:

rajibando wrote:
So please advise me, Mr. Morn and Mr. ewaller: should I go ahead with installing Arch Linux? Would I find support during installation?
Of course you could also consider Arch-based distros such as Manjaro or EndeavourOS. Installation should be easier and the forums (at least for Manjaro) seem very beginner-friendly to me.
Arch is a bit more time-consuming: You need to read the wiki, the forums, the update messages, etc. You need the time and willingness to learn about Linux. If you mainly want to install Linux quickly and then get on with your work/your applications, then something like Manjaro might be a better fit...

+1
https://itsfoss.com/manjaro-vs-arch-linux/

(A smart person is not in which water he learns to swim)

Last edited by growler (2023-05-22 10:14:53)

Raynman · 2023-05-22 10:41:50

Maybe openSUSE Tumbleweed, if the only* thing you know or care about regarding Arch is the rolling release, but you want it to be less DIY.

* you also mentioned liking the wikis, but there's contradictory evidence around that in this thread.

rajibando · 2023-05-22 10:57:02

Morn wrote:

... Of course you could also consider Arch-based distros such as Manjaro ... the forums (at least for Manjaro) seem very beginner-friendly to me. ... If you mainly want to install Linux quickly and then get on with your work/your applications, then something like Manjaro might be a better fit ...

Okay, I will contemplate upon the inputs given me. But I am now unsure of Arch's suitability for a layperson like me.

Manjaro reminds me of the eventual fate of Knoppix. I adore Knoppix. It made Debian very easy for me. But all the senior administrators have become elderly(edited later) and silent and the vibrancy is no more. May be, if someone can take over or massively share(added later) the responsibilities of Klaus Knopper could Knoppix have a fresh leash of earlier vibrancy (no offence intended for Mr. Knopper, said in empathy).

But Knoppix also had its share of problems. Only with 7.2.0 I could continue to use it for 7+ years. I was very satisfied with it. Had to part with it, going over to 8.6.0. But in the meanwhile, Knoppix forum has progressively grown less active than earlier. One man, Mr. Verner Schulz, was outstanding. I have really missed his absence since 2018. He was very elderly.

In the meanwhile, I will post another query on LXDE and OpenBox, which actually instigated me to consider shifting away from Debian and LXDE to Arch and OpenBox respectively. The LXDE forum is not vibrant. LXDE's web presence is not felt. The wiki pages are non-existent. I didn't receive a reply for my query _(It is a different matter that I solved it by investigative studies)._ The issue is about incorporating a custom sub-menu in the drop-down menu-list accessible by Right-Clicking on the Desktop of OpenBox and LXDE. Also for the same plan with the pcmanfm file-manager, a custom script made accessible by a custom menu-entry, with the same Right-Click, within the drop down menu-list. The OpenBox Mailing List also didn't help much. But I am still hopeful with OpenBox than I am with LXDE.

Ok, now to Lone_Wolf.

Lone_Wolf wrote:

... That is a very old page and the install tooling has changed since then .
The successor of that page is https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Instal … ting_Linux (note it has a sligthly different title) .

Thank you for the latest link. I will check and decide if I could risk a new installation.

Lone_Wolf wrote:

... Offtopic :
It seems I never answered one of your questions in that other topic :
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1967395#p1967395 wrote:
I would also seek your permission to Email you a few relevant titbits.

Have you noticed the date? It was last edited by rajibando on 2021-04-12 15:10:00. We have grown older by two years. That laptop is now idle. The problem was never solved. None of the drivers ran the GPU, but use the CPU. Made the system hot quickly. Had I used Doze it would have still been working.

Lone_Wolf wrote:

... though I don't always reply to them.

I will ignore the comment.

The thread was updated while I was preparing my post. So had to accommodate the later ones:

growler wrote:

... https://itsfoss.com/manjaro-vs-arch-linux/

Thank you for the link. Really kind of you to have done so.

Last edited by rajibando (2023-05-22 12:11:27)

Morn · 2023-05-22 11:10:23

rajibando wrote:

The OpenBox Mailing List also didn't help much. But I am still hopeful with OpenBox than I am with LXDE.

Openbox is no longer actively developed. So I am not surprised the mailing list was not that helpful.

My own favorite window manager is JWM. Customizing the menu works well. But it is only a window manager, not a desktop environment, so you have to get a file manager, text editor, etc. from somewhere else. I mostly use GNOME apps...

rajibando · 2023-05-22 12:04:40

Morn wrote:

... My own favorite window manager is JWM ...

I had said in my earlier post,

rajibando wrote:

... In the meanwhile, I will post another query on LXDE and OpenBox, which actually instigated me ...

Thank you, Mr. Morn, for your informative posts, especially on Manjaro. I am enthused. You have been really kind with sharing information.
If by a mutual consensus we remove these two posts and have a separate discussion on a different thread, won't that be better?
Please allow me some time to do justice to my post so that my co-posters aren't irritated.

Last edited by rajibando (2023-05-22 12:15:57)

Arch Linux

#1 2023-05-21 07:18:09

I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#2 2023-05-21 07:49:31

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#3 2023-05-21 10:29:10

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#4 2023-05-21 10:49:45

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#5 2023-05-21 11:02:42

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#6 2023-05-21 11:35:46

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#7 2023-05-21 12:26:09

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#8 2023-05-21 12:43:33

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#9 2023-05-21 12:51:49

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#10 2023-05-21 13:38:37

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#11 2023-05-21 16:30:42

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#12 2023-05-22 02:23:21

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#13 2023-05-22 09:22:10

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#14 2023-05-22 09:45:50

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#15 2023-05-22 10:12:02

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#16 2023-05-22 10:41:50

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#17 2023-05-22 10:57:02

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#18 2023-05-22 11:10:23

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

#19 2023-05-22 12:04:40

Re: I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian

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