My computer stops working but remains on...

Borosai · 2006-11-21 23:30:11

I'm not sure what the exact problem is, but on two occasions in the past two weeks, my computer has stopped working while using linux. The thing is that it doesn't actually turn off...the fans continue to spin (I think the cpu fans continue to work as well). All the case lights remain on...it's as if it's working properly...except that it doesn't respond.

The first thing that happens is the monitors shut off (enter standby mode) as they do when they lose the signal. The weird thing is I can continue to hear my music playing. Then, after about 10 seconds, the music stops. And that's it...after the monitors shut off and the music stops, the computer remains on.

So I end up doing a hard restart, which does nothing except produce a weird noise from the hard drives (I think that's where it's coming from) but doesn't restart. I then hold down the power button until it turns off. Then when I go to turn it on, it doesn't do anything. So I proceed to switch the PSU off/on, and then it will start up. Last time that was all that I did, but today, when it restarted, the BIOS had reset itself. Then I proceeded to kick my fan over, which didn't help.

So that's it. It hasn't happened while using Windows, but if I remember correctly, it gave me the same power-on problems after a proper shutdown. So I don't know. I assume it's a hardware problem...maybe the MB, PSU, Memory...I don't know. Any ideas? :? :?:

Hardware:
MB - ASUS K8N-DL
PSU - Antec TruePower 2.0 550 Watt EPS12V
CPUs - 2 x AMD Opteron 242
Mem - 4GB (4x1GB) Gigaram DDR400 PC3200
GPU - PNY nVidia QuadroFX 1300

vredfreak · 2006-11-21 23:42:03

I don't know if the problems are related at all, but I ran into a similar situation a while back when my cpu began overheating. It had a built-in shutdown to prevent further damage. I had the same problems with the system going into a "coma" and problems restarting.

Kenetixx · 2006-11-21 23:57:17

Sounds very much like a PSU issue
Check what the 12 volt rail is sitting at in bios , then if you have a PSU tester check it with that

Borosai · 2006-11-22 03:07:02

Alright...I will look into all of those. Thanks.

harlekin · 2006-11-22 05:28:55

I've got the same problem. Mostly it occurs randomly while playing.

But I don't think it's a cpu overheating problem (but I'll check the temp the next time it happens).

For example if I start sauerbraten, my system will die as described above before I see a picture of the game. I don't think that my cpu is overheating that fast.

Well, I'll check my bios settings. Are there any other options I should refer to?

Borosai · 2006-12-08 01:07:11

Well, it happened again just a few minutes ago. And I can say with certainty that it has never happened while away from the computer...it always occurs on action...whether it's a keypress or mouse click. The past two times it has been a key press. I also opened the case while it was in its abominable-vegetative state, and everything was on...the cpu fans, the case fans, the chipset fan...everything. I wiggled the video card, and nothing...everything is well seated.

Now, this never happened while using Windows...after shutting down yes (once iirc), but never while running Windows. What could be the difference? And considering it occurs while doing something (not idle), there has to be an answer. Even if it's a problem with the hardware, I need to find out. The case temperature is around 42C max, so it can't be the temperature. Since everything remains on in the case, it can't be the PSU can it? I don't have a tester to make sure.

Any similar experiences or tips? This is really chapping my balls!

isofluran · 2006-12-08 07:09:28

I'm not sure, maybe there is link between our problems (see http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=27608). You have a smp environment too (my is an ancient one and intel).
The problem is in my case it is not reproducable like pressing a button, starting an application, but it is definitly related to the running kernel (now 2.6.19) or anything that was updated in the last days. No heavy load (compiling, gaming etc.) is needed to stop the system.
I have had a similar problem (complete hangup) that was caused by firefox (http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=18004).
I never had hang ups with win xp (nevertheless it was completely kicked off).

I dont think it is related to hardware, because the machine worked well the last months with uptimes up to a week. Running a current Knoppix gives me a flawless system without any failures.

rabid_dog · 2006-12-08 07:14:57

About hardware check.
Look at +12V line in BIOS Setup first, and other lines. If value differs more than +-0.3V, borrow good PSU from a friend and see if problem remains.
Also it may be mainboard or BIOS problem.
Right now, you have not Windows to check, yes?

chrismortimore · 2006-12-08 08:54:51

I'd be very surprised if it was the PSU or cores. If it only happens when a key is pressed or the mouse is used, it seems like it is more an I/O problem. I mean, yeah, a click or typing puts a smudge of strain on the PSU, but it draws on the order of mA, so I doubt it's a problem.

Are your mouse and keyboard PS/2? Perhaps try switching to USB or vice versa. Maybe an interrupt is causing havoc around your system, could check your settings there?

rabid_dog wrote:

Look at +12V line in BIOS Setup first, and other lines. If value differs more than +-0.3V, borrow good PSU from a friend and see if problem remains.

+-0.3V? You must be constantly switching PSUs. Your tolerance doesn't make sense, you're giving the 12V +- 0.025%, 5V +-0.06% and and 3.3V +- 0.9%. Here are the specs for his PSU: http://www.antec.com/specs/TPII550_EPS12V_spe.html. The manufacturer doesn't even give those tolerances. And half the components in the computer are probably +-5% anyway, so they won't care about 0.3V. A tolerance of 5-10% is much more sensible for a PSU.

isofluran · 2006-12-08 08:58:43

No windows here (no need at all!).

I checked the 12V line with a multimeter during bootup. The voltage is within normal ranges at the beginning (12.01 V), but booting a kernel there are oscillations from 11.91 up to 12.08 and then back to 12.02. My system hangs when the voltage goes down to aprox. 11.93 and then it remains at 12.05 (state of coma/hang up).

So I'm not sure if my problem is only a software/kernel problem or much more caused by the hardware (defective PSU).
I cannot change the PSU, because it is designed with its plugs to the (proprietary) motherboard manufactured by Siemens-Nixdorf and it is almost impossible to get a second one to test with.

That means the days of this (mostly) reliable machine are over. :cry:
Time to search for a worthy replacement

chrismortimore · 2006-12-08 09:12:27

isofluran wrote:

I checked the 12V line with a multimeter during bootup. The voltage is within normal ranges at the beginning (12.01 V), but booting a kernel there are oscillations from 11.91 up to 12.08 and then back to 12.02. My system hangs when the voltage goes down to aprox. 11.93 and then it remains at 12.05 (state of coma/hang up).

That's normal. It'll be fluctuating because different devices will be starting up and doing their business. Nothing to worry about.

rabid_dog · 2006-12-08 09:13:06

chrismortimore,
Sadly, I'm not PSU specialist.
But i had Elitegroup motherboard and bad PSU which shows 11.4V instead of 12. Linux installs just fine but occasionnaly gives such strange hangups. Windows cannot setup - first 2 stages was fine but after it can't boot - in logs was some weird error with initpki.dll and digital signing, googling gave only http://forum.ixbt.com/post.cgi?id=print:22:63085, which did not have solution anyway

I replaced old PSU on new manufactured by FSP ant it works just fine! But if you only know how long i f**ked with this PC... (

It sill can be some kernel bug, anyway, if this appears soon after upgrade

rabid_dog · 2006-12-08 09:20:17

11.9 is perfectly normal
Try to turn off all possible devices and add them one by one and test pc, try to replace keyboard and mouse, etc.. maybe this is really I/O conflict as chrismortimore said.

isofluran · 2006-12-08 09:34:52

I simply changed the keyboard and ... I write these lines with the assumed defective machine. Maybe all this is caused by the old ps/2 keyboard witch is replaced now by a SUN type 6 usb (swedish labels on the buttons, a bit strange for me as a German) version. It is really working!

Now, with new anticipation, I will get a new keyboard and that's it.

Thank you for your ideas and hints!

chrismortimore · 2006-12-08 17:54:26

rabid_dog wrote:

But i had Elitegroup motherboard and bad PSU which shows 11.4V instead of 12.

As that is -5%, I'd be inclined to say that the PSU was probably rippling just a little bit too much for the computer to tolerate.

rabid_dog wrote:

Sadly, I'm not PSU specialist.

Neither am I, I study electronics at uni I once had my desktop running from a 9V battery. Worked nicely until the battery went flat though....... But that's another story altogether.

Borosai · 2006-12-08 21:08:09

That's another thing...it doesn't occur every few hours or days. I completely wiped my system last week (incl. Windows) and reinstalled arch by itself. I had been using the system for a week and a few days without any issues until yesterday. It's very random. The two previous times occured on consecutive days (or the same day...I don't remember).

I checked the +12V line in BIOS last time it shut off (not yesterday), and it was at 11.7 or 11.9, which seems fine. And I don't think I know anyone around here with a PSU with the right connection anyway.

Another thing I just remembered is that the connection light on my router for this computer turns off as well. So although most of the components seem to be running, the monitors turn off, the ethernet card appears to turn off, and the sound goes off too. I don't know enough about hardware to make a very educated guess, but could it be the PCI bus? That's where all of these things are running right? I don't know what else uses that, but it sort of makes sense. If it is the case, then it would be the mobo right? Ok, enough guessing.

And yes, both my mouse and keyboard are connected PS/2. The mouse is the only one that can be connected USB. But why would that be a problem?

@isofluran: What exactly do you mean when you say your system hangs? Is it similar to my case, or does it just freeze up?

So my computer may work fine for another week (from today) and go through the same thing, or it may happen in a few minutes. It's not predictable. :?

chrismortimore · 2006-12-08 21:15:45

I was asking about the keyboard and mouse, as you said earlier it only happens when typing or mousing. Thus, makes me think this could be the source of the problem. But it does sound to me like your mobo is knackered. If only part of your system is going down, then I wouldn't hold out much hope.

Borosai · 2006-12-09 01:16:47

Surprise! It just happened again. :evil:

This time I pressed Alt+1 while using WeeChat to switch buffer. The weird thing is the music didn't die off until the song had finished (I guess the system was being nice to me this time...not wanting to interrupt my singing and all). Everything else was the same, but I noticed there was some hard drive activity until the song finished. My router also showed that after a while, the connection was detected again (the led turned off, and then came back on, but the system remained unresponsive).

Ok, IIRC these are the triggers that shut it down the last times:
* Today and yesterday - Changing buffers in WeeChat (using Openbox)
* Previous time - Navigating client windows with Mod4 (win key?) and h,j,k,l in ruby-wmii
* Before that - I think I was using Firefox, but not sure (ruby-wmii)

This is really getting on my nerves. It can't just be the hardware because it never happened when running Windows...never in 18 months. It has happened at least 4-5 times running arch (I haven't tried another distro on this computer, which I may just end up doing to test it). I may just end up installing XP because this is really really unacceptable.

chrismortimore · 2006-12-09 06:30:29

Perhaps the song kept going because it was already in the buffer... Maybe... *shrug*

Rather than a hardware issue, it could actually be a driver issue (never thought of this before). How recent is the hardware? Can I get an "lspci" as well?

Further thoughts: Ah ha! Google is my friend! Lead to gentoo wiki: clicky!
Pay particular reference to the bit about >3G RAM (which I've noticed you have). Talks about kernel panics and the like. Perhaps try things mentioned here? Or taking out 1G of RAM?[/url]

Borosai · 2006-12-09 08:54:28

I wish I could give you an "lspci" output, but I am already running WindowsXP. In fact, I installed Ubuntu64 and SimplyMEPIS, and they both sucked hard. I expected much more from them too. Last time I installed Mepis (before switching over to Ubuntu base) it was great, and detected everything and set up properly. This time, they both were the same (no surprise).

Anyway, I went ahead and installed XP just because I didn't want to be worrying about this thing turning off every day. By the way, I read that link a while ago, and it has some interesting notes, but nothing definite. I guess later on, whenever I have more patience and time, I will experiment. I wish I had a second system for that. Anyway, I will keep an eye out for anything, but thanks anyway.

chrismortimore · 2006-12-09 19:35:49

Ach well, sorry I couldn't help any more. I'm really curious what was giving you problems though.. Guess I'll never know now

Arch Linux

#1 2006-11-21 23:30:11

My computer stops working but remains on...

#2 2006-11-21 23:42:03

Re: My computer stops working but remains on...

#3 2006-11-21 23:57:17

Re: My computer stops working but remains on...

#4 2006-11-22 03:07:02

Re: My computer stops working but remains on...

#5 2006-11-22 05:28:55

Re: My computer stops working but remains on...

#6 2006-12-08 01:07:11

Re: My computer stops working but remains on...

#7 2006-12-08 07:09:28

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#8 2006-12-08 07:14:57

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#9 2006-12-08 08:54:51

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#10 2006-12-08 08:58:43

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#11 2006-12-08 09:12:27

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#12 2006-12-08 09:13:06

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#13 2006-12-08 09:20:17

Re: My computer stops working but remains on...

#14 2006-12-08 09:34:52

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#15 2006-12-08 17:54:26

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#16 2006-12-08 21:08:09

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#17 2006-12-08 21:15:45

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#18 2006-12-09 01:16:47

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#19 2006-12-09 06:30:29

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#20 2006-12-09 08:54:28

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#21 2006-12-09 19:35:49

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