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Hey, so I am trying to install arch. I've done a few runs in a vm, read the wiki and some guides. I want you to keep in mind that I am still pretty illiterate when it comes to inner workings of Linux, partitions, etc., so feel free to say if my questions are stupid and don't make sense
I have a dual-boot system with Windows 10 and Ubuntu. I was wondering if I should mount my Windows-created efi partition to /efi (you have to mount it, right?) like its suggested in wiki. The guides I've watched were dated a year ago and the mount point was /boot/efi I'm afraid that if some problems related to /boot will arise, I won't be able to figure them out because of a different mount point. All my questions basically boil down to: How much trouble will I face with these changes and how applicable forum posts will be for troubleshooting down the line.
The same logic applies to XBOOTLDR. If I create it with a GRUB bootloader, is there a way for it to work? Should I bother trying systemdboot to have it? Or should I try another method? I'd like to try different kernels, and I've heard it's good to have a spare in case something breaks down, but I can settle for one if it's too much trouble and get back to the problem in like a year. So... What's your opinion?
Last edited by Zaphkiel224z (2024-01-22 21:22:48)
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GRUB can load kernels from your basically any partition/fileystem. systemd-boot can load kernels only from the ESP or a secondary, distinct XBOOTLDR marked partition (and with spefic filesystem EFI drivers if you're not just going to use FAT32 for it). If you "want to be future proof" then create a distinct sufficiently sized XBOOTLDR partition and mount that to /boot -- both GRUB and systemd-boot will be able to use that.
You can mount your ESP to /efi, that largely doesn't matter but you need it mounted to install GRUB/systemd-boot on it.
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GRUB can load kernels from your basically any partition/fileystem. systemd-boot can load kernels only from the ESP or a secondary, distinct XBOOTLDR marked partition (and with spefic filesystem EFI drivers if you're not just going to use FAT32 for it). If you "want to be future proof" then create a distinct sufficiently sized XBOOTLDR partition and mount that to /boot -- both GRUB and systemd-boot will be able to use that.
You can mount your ESP to /efi, that largely doesn't matter but you need it mounted to install GRUB/systemd-boot on it.
Thanks for a great answer, man. Are any of the next steps of the install different with XBOOTLDR partition and mounting to /efi?
Last edited by Zaphkiel224z (2024-01-11 13:36:19)
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Thanks for a great answer, man. Are any of the next steps of the install different with XBOOTLDR partition and mounting to /efi?
You want more space, right? So mount ESP (eg.: /dev/nvme0n1p1) on /efi and BOOT (eg.: /dev/nvme0n1p5) on /boot.
Be warned that systemd-boot somethimes fails loading efi-drivers and thus reading XBOOTLDR contents if you're working on nVME devices (see: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=288999).
<49,17,III,I> Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I> misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I> non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.
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Depending on whether you want to use GRUB or systemd boot. For GRUB it doesn't matter (it doesn't have - nor need - any notion of XBOOTLDR) it will simply use the partition that's mounted under /boot if you are running grub-install/grub-mkconfig with the default flags as documented in the wiki. For systemd-boot read it's docs/the wiki.
Last edited by V1del (2024-01-11 15:37:20)
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Depending on whether you want to use GRUB or systemd boot. For GRUB it doesn't matter (it doesn't have - nor need - any notion of XBOOTLDR) it will simply use the partition that's mounted under /boot if you are running grub-install/grub-mkconfig with the default flags as documented in the wiki. For systemd-boot read it's docs/the wiki.
Nah, I'd rather stick with GRUB
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Zaphkiel224z wrote:Thanks for a great answer, man. Are any of the next steps of the install different with XBOOTLDR partition and mounting to /efi?
You want more space, right? So mount ESP (eg.: /dev/nvme0n1p1) on /efi and BOOT (eg.: /dev/nvme0n1p5) on /boot.
Be warned that systemd-boot somethimes fails loading efi-drivers and thus reading XBOOTLDR contents if you're working on nVME devices (see: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=288999).
Yeah, that's what I figured. I'll mount Windows's uefi on /mnt/efi and add XBOOTLDR on mnt/boot. I'd rather use GRUB if possible.
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XBOOTLDR on mnt/boot
Stop taking for granted /boot is XBOOTLDR. This is not, at least at these times, a "hard" standard. No distribution is following that directive (by now) and BootLoaders will simply look for /boot (be it mounted on a separate partition, or being beneath /) .
XBOOTLDR is a systemd / UAPI thnigs, as for now.
<49,17,III,I> Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I> misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I> non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.
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Zaphkiel224z wrote:XBOOTLDR on mnt/boot
Stop taking for granted /boot is XBOOTLDR. This is not, at least at these times, a "hard" standard. No distribution is following that directive (by now) and BootLoaders will simply look for /boot (be it mounted on a separate partition, or being beneath /) .
XBOOTLDR is a systemd / UAPI thnigs, as for now.
Sorry, I am a little confused, XBOOTLDR is not /boot, got it. So what should I do then? Create a partition to mount on /mnt/boot and mount a Windows's UEFI on /mnt/efi?
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Yup!
<49,17,III,I> Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I> misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I> non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.
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*WHY* are you insisting on a separate partition at /boot? If you're going to do it, you might as well make it an XBOOTLDR partition, but why do you want it at all using grub?
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*WHY* are you insisting on a separate partition at /boot? If you're going to do it, you might as well make it an XBOOTLDR partition, but why do you want it at all using grub?
Listen man, you should quote someone when you say things like that. I do not insist on anything, I'm just working based on solutions mentioned in Wiki. All I want is to have enough space for other kernels because of a 100mb ESP. I'm not even sure where they are being installed when you pacstrap them and what are the capabilities of GRUB. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dual_boot_with_Windows This entry on 1.3 implies that something like GRUB can take kernels from anywhere but this entry https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/EFI_system_partition in 4.1 suggests to make XBOOTLDR partition. The whole reason why this post exists is because I want to know the best solution wth minimal hassle. If someone says making a boot partition will give me more space, I'm all for it. If you disagree, I can't dispute it either
Last edited by Zaphkiel224z (2024-01-12 09:16:55)
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If you're going for the GRUB route, then you'd not have the needs of separating /boot, because of:
GRUB bundles its own support for multiple file systems, notably FAT32, ext4, Btrfs or XFS.
<49,17,III,I> Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I> misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I> non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.
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If you're going for the GRUB route, then you'd not have the needs of separating /boot, because of:
WIKI wrote:GRUB bundles its own support for multiple file systems, notably FAT32, ext4, Btrfs or XFS.
Ok... So... I create swap, root and mount Windows's ESP. Where will my kernels be stored? On root?
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On root in the /boot directory.
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Ah, wait, so because GRUB supports the root file system it doesn't need a separate partition and can just use root, is that correct?
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Precisely
<49,17,III,I> Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I> misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I> non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.
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Well, glad I learned something. Thank you guys and sorry if I was dense. Do additional kernels write something on /efi, or can I have as many kernels as I want now?
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Well, glad I learned something
Do additional kernels write something on /efi, or can I have as many kernels as I want now?
https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FH … 03s05.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFI_system_partition
<49,17,III,I> Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I> misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I> non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.
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Alright, last question, I swear. So... ESP contains GRUB... And GRUB can load kernels from other partitions apart from esp, right? if I have a Ubuntu on my system, does it mean that I install a second GRUB on my ESP during an install?
Last edited by Zaphkiel224z (2024-01-12 13:20:00)
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You could -- if that Ubuntu already exists and you do setup a secondary GRUB take care that the bootloader-id you're using for Arch's GRUB is not the same as the one used by Ubuntu (check efibootmgr -uv so that you pick a different id, afaik Ubuntu will just have Ubuntu so if you don't use that you're fine), or you could install Arch without it's own GRUB and instead use Ubuntu's GRUB to detect and boot Arch kernels (however, and Im not that up-to date on the Ubuntu shenanigans, Arch recently dropped compatibility with an older EFI loading mechanism that might not have been back ported to older GRUB versions, so if you want to be safe, opt for a secondary Arch GRUB)
Last edited by V1del (2024-01-12 15:21:21)
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Hey guys, just wanted to thank you all for bearing with me. My first arch is running smoothly. The only problem left is that I actually don't see Ubuntu in GRUB now. I didn't find the exact solution but found similar one. I created /ubuntu folder, mounted it, checked with os-prober, updated the config and it seems to work. Let me know if it's a decent solution. I have no idea what's going on with 2 grubs on my system but everything is working smoothly so far, so... Congratulate me! Wayland is looking nice...
And thank you all once again!
Last edited by Zaphkiel224z (2024-01-15 13:38:49)
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The thing with having os-probered Ubuntu (assuming it loaded initramfs entries and not simply chainloads the grub.cfg/which it can do as well which would be better, maybe post your /boot/grub/grub.cfg so that can be verified) is that it will not auotmatically update, so when you are in Ubuntu and update the kernel, chances are that change isn't reflected until your run grub-mkconfig in Arch again.
In any case if you consider this [SOLVED] please mark it as such by editing the title in your first post.
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An alternative would be to use /boot/grub/custom.cfg in Arch to boot Ubuntu using the symlinks in the Ubuntu root filesystem that always point to the current kernel version, something like this should work:
menuentry 'Ubuntu' {
search --fs-uuid --set=root $uuid
linux /vmlinuz ro quiet root=UUID=$uuid
initrd /initrd.img
}
Replace $uuid with the filesystem UUID of the Ubuntu root partition and add any desired kernel command line options to the end of the linux line.
If you follow this approach the os-prober package in Arch should be removed to prevent multiple Ubuntu menuentries. EDIT: and reconfigure Arch's grub.cfg afterwards to remove the os-prober menuentries.
Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2024-01-15 14:33:57)
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#
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
#
# It is automatically generated by grub-mkconfig using templates
# from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub
#
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
insmod part_gpt
insmod part_msdos
if [ -s $prefix/grubenv ]; then
load_env
fi
if [ "${next_entry}" ] ; then
set default="${next_entry}"
set next_entry=
save_env next_entry
set boot_once=true
else
set default="0"
fi
if [ x"${feature_menuentry_id}" = xy ]; then
menuentry_id_option="--id"
else
menuentry_id_option=""
fi
export menuentry_id_option
if [ "${prev_saved_entry}" ]; then
set saved_entry="${prev_saved_entry}"
save_env saved_entry
set prev_saved_entry=
save_env prev_saved_entry
set boot_once=true
fi
function savedefault {
if [ -z "${boot_once}" ]; then
saved_entry="${chosen}"
save_env saved_entry
fi
}
function load_video {
if [ x$feature_all_video_module = xy ]; then
insmod all_video
else
insmod efi_gop
insmod efi_uga
insmod ieee1275_fb
insmod vbe
insmod vga
insmod video_bochs
insmod video_cirrus
fi
}
if [ x$feature_default_font_path = xy ] ; then
font=unicode
else
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de
font="/usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2"
fi
if loadfont $font ; then
set gfxmode=auto
load_video
insmod gfxterm
set locale_dir=$prefix/locale
set lang=en_US
insmod gettext
fi
terminal_input console
terminal_output gfxterm
if [ x$feature_timeout_style = xy ] ; then
set timeout_style=menu
set timeout=5
# Fallback normal timeout code in case the timeout_style feature is
# unavailable.
else
set timeout=5
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###
menuentry 'Arch Linux' --class arch --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-simple-4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de' {
load_video
set gfxpayload=keep
insmod gzio
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de
echo 'Loading Linux linux ...'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-linux root=UUID=4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de rw loglevel=3 quiet
echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /boot/amd-ucode.img /boot/initramfs-linux.img
}
submenu 'Advanced options for Arch Linux' $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-advanced-4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de' {
menuentry 'Arch Linux, with Linux linux' --class arch --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-linux-advanced-4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de' {
load_video
set gfxpayload=keep
insmod gzio
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de
echo 'Loading Linux linux ...'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-linux root=UUID=4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de rw loglevel=3 quiet
echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /boot/amd-ucode.img /boot/initramfs-linux.img
}
menuentry 'Arch Linux, with Linux linux (fallback initramfs)' --class arch --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-linux-fallback-4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de' {
load_video
set gfxpayload=keep
insmod gzio
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de
echo 'Loading Linux linux ...'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-linux root=UUID=4b511ed2-cd72-4b5f-ad22-49d857b245de rw loglevel=3 quiet
echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /boot/amd-ucode.img /boot/initramfs-linux-fallback.img
}
}
### END /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ###
### END /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/25_bli ###
if [ "$grub_platform" = "efi" ]; then
insmod bli
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/25_bli ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###
menuentry 'Windows Boot Manager (on /dev/nvme0n1p1)' --class windows --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-efi-EA4A-A794' {
insmod part_gpt
insmod fat
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root EA4A-A794
chainloader /EFI/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
}
menuentry 'Ubuntu 22.04.2 LTS (22.04) (on /dev/nvme0n1p8)' --class ubuntu --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-simple-c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b' {
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b
linux /boot/vmlinuz-6.5.0-14-generic root=UUID=c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b ro quiet splash $vt_handoff
initrd /boot/initrd.img-6.5.0-14-generic
}
submenu 'Advanced options for Ubuntu 22.04.2 LTS (22.04) (on /dev/nvme0n1p8)' $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-advanced-c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b' {
menuentry 'Ubuntu (on /dev/nvme0n1p8)' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-/boot/vmlinuz-6.5.0-14-generic--c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b' {
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b
linux /boot/vmlinuz-6.5.0-14-generic root=UUID=c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b ro quiet splash $vt_handoff
initrd /boot/initrd.img-6.5.0-14-generic
}
menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 6.5.0-14-generic (on /dev/nvme0n1p8)' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-/boot/vmlinuz-6.5.0-14-generic--c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b' {
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b
linux /boot/vmlinuz-6.5.0-14-generic root=UUID=c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b ro quiet splash $vt_handoff
initrd /boot/initrd.img-6.5.0-14-generic
}
menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 6.5.0-14-generic (recovery mode) (on /dev/nvme0n1p8)' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-/boot/vmlinuz-6.5.0-14-generic--c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b' {
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b
linux /boot/vmlinuz-6.5.0-14-generic root=UUID=c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b ro recovery nomodeset dis_ucode_ldr
initrd /boot/initrd.img-6.5.0-14-generic
}
menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 6.2.0-39-generic (on /dev/nvme0n1p8)' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-/boot/vmlinuz-6.2.0-39-generic--c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b' {
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b
linux /boot/vmlinuz-6.2.0-39-generic root=UUID=c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b ro quiet splash $vt_handoff
initrd /boot/initrd.img-6.2.0-39-generic
}
menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 6.2.0-39-generic (recovery mode) (on /dev/nvme0n1p8)' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-/boot/vmlinuz-6.2.0-39-generic--c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b' {
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b
linux /boot/vmlinuz-6.2.0-39-generic root=UUID=c302fdad-e0cd-41c1-9f2d-8d43fb1b355b ro recovery nomodeset dis_ucode_ldr
initrd /boot/initrd.img-6.2.0-39-generic
}
}
### END /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_uefi-firmware ###
if [ "$grub_platform" = "efi" ]; then
fwsetup --is-supported
if [ "$?" = 0 ]; then
menuentry 'UEFI Firmware Settings' $menuentry_id_option 'uefi-firmware' {
fwsetup
}
fi
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/30_uefi-firmware ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/40_custom ###
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.
### END /etc/grub.d/40_custom ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/41_custom ###
if [ -f ${config_directory}/custom.cfg ]; then
source ${config_directory}/custom.cfg
elif [ -z "${config_directory}" -a -f $prefix/custom.cfg ]; then
source $prefix/custom.cfg
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/41_custom ###
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