[SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

jojo06 · 2024-05-31 12:31:47

vulkaninfo | curl -F 'file=@-' 0x0.st ::
http://0x0.st/XNI4.txt

Refer to: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=296258

And how can i install and use nvidia-beta ?

--
I had to use qutebrowser as a browser. Firefox uses a lot of ram. Occasionally I would get the warning `oh gash restart firefox`, but when the game is open, it happens right away. When the game is open, the gBar shows 100% GPU usage and the game uses a lot of ram again. Also the CPU fan is constantly going up and down.

My laptop also has this problem; it starts with 4 out of 8 GB of ram being used and lasts until the end, 8/8, so the ram usage increases and fills up out of nowhere.

Last edited by jojo06 (2024-06-06 07:52:52)

V1del · 2024-05-31 13:29:22

You're using the correct driver, but a 4GB card is simply not enough for many modern usecases/games and the translation layers in use for Proton have a bit of a higher VRAM overhead than you'd need running things natively, ... in addition to that explicitly the Pascal architecture has some architectural limitations that lower the perf further that only got fixed in later versions.

Which game are you talking about? Still CS2? I'd strongly assume it needs beefier hardware and the 50FPS you're getting being potentially normal.

For generally running OOM you should strongly consider adding a swapfile/swap partition of at least another 8GB if not more, if you don't have that.

As for testing the beta drivers https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/nvidia-beta-dkms https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_User_Repository

Also since this is a laptop, is this also with an integrated card or is the nvidia card the only one present? What's your

lspci -k
glxinfo -B

Last edited by V1del (2024-05-31 13:30:06)

jojo06 · 2024-05-31 14:09:07

How is it possible to keep up with the speed of hardware in technology? 1050 ti is a good graphics card for average games, it plays GTA V etc. Even my previous graphics card did.

Yes, I'm talking about cs2, but there are problems in a few other games. I don't play high quality games anyway. Besides, it is written on the internet (benchamarks - can i run it websites) that it can be played at high fps with 1050 ti, CS2 after all. Already recommended settings high in the game. I'm also playing on medium settings, even if I turn it down to low it's the same. Also, the problem is not 50 fps, it varies between 10-50. If it's 40-50, no problem. It drops to 10 too much. Also, the last few times I tried I couldn't even get 50. Its 10-30...

For generally running OOM you should strongly consider adding a swapfile/swap partition of at least another 8GB if not more, if you don't have that.

Do you mean swap ?

Edit: installed nvidia-beta-dkms

--
I have a slight misrepresentation: everything I mentioned is about my desktop computer, except for the part where I said `My laptop also has this problem`. I also mentioned my problem on the laptop because it could be a renderer/graphics problem. I haven't tried games etc on it.

EDIT: Sorry about misunderstood, my desktop:
lspci -k

00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 8th Gen Core Processor Host Bridge/DRAM Registers (rev 07)
	DeviceName: Onboard - Other
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. PRIME H310M-D
	Kernel driver in use: skl_uncore
	Kernel modules: ie31200_edac
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 6th-10th Gen Core Processor PCIe Controller (x16) (rev 07)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8694
	Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:14.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 200 Series/Z370 Chipset Family USB 3.0 xHCI Controller
	DeviceName: Onboard - Other
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8694
	Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
	Kernel modules: xhci_pci
00:16.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation 200 Series PCH CSME HECI #1
	DeviceName: Onboard - Other
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8694
	Kernel driver in use: mei_me
	Kernel modules: mei_me
00:17.0 SATA controller: Intel Corporation 200 Series PCH SATA controller [AHCI mode]
	DeviceName: Onboard - SATA
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8694
	Kernel driver in use: ahci
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 200 Series PCH PCI Express Root Port #5 (rev f0)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8694
	Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:1c.7 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 200 Series PCH PCI Express Root Port #8 (rev f0)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8694
	Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:1d.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 200 Series PCH PCI Express Root Port #11 (rev f0)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8694
	Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation Device a2ca
	DeviceName: Onboard - Other
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8694
00:1f.2 Memory controller: Intel Corporation 200 Series/Z370 Chipset Family Power Management Controller
	DeviceName: Onboard - Other
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8694
00:1f.3 Audio device: Intel Corporation 200 Series PCH HD Audio
	DeviceName: Onboard - Sound
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 86c7
	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
	Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel, snd_soc_avs
00:1f.4 SMBus: Intel Corporation 200 Series/Z370 Chipset Family SMBus Controller
	DeviceName: Onboard - Other
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 8694
	Kernel driver in use: i801_smbus
	Kernel modules: i2c_i801
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GP107 [GeForce GTX 1050 Ti] (rev a1)
	Subsystem: eVga.com. Corp. Device 6255
	Kernel driver in use: nvidia
	Kernel modules: nouveau, nvidia_drm, nvidia
01:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GP107GL High Definition Audio Controller (rev a1)
	Subsystem: eVga.com. Corp. Device 6255
	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
	Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel
03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8211/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 15)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Onboard RTL8111H Ethernet
	Kernel driver in use: r8169
	Kernel modules: r8169

glxinfo -B

name of display: :0
display: :0  screen: 0
direct rendering: Yes
Memory info (GL_NVX_gpu_memory_info):
    Dedicated video memory: 4096 MB
    Total available memory: 4096 MB
    Currently available dedicated video memory: 3531 MB
OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
OpenGL renderer string: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti/PCIe/SSE2
OpenGL core profile version string: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 550.78
OpenGL core profile shading language version string: 4.60 NVIDIA
OpenGL core profile context flags: (none)
OpenGL core profile profile mask: core profile

OpenGL version string: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 550.78
OpenGL shading language version string: 4.60 NVIDIA
OpenGL context flags: (none)
OpenGL profile mask: (none)

OpenGL ES profile version string: OpenGL ES 3.2 NVIDIA 550.78
OpenGL ES profile shading language version string: OpenGL ES GLSL ES 3.20

Last edited by jojo06 (2024-06-01 10:11:13)

seth · 2024-05-31 14:41:53

Please don't randomly mix information - focus on one system.
The original post shows a geforce 1050ti, the glxinfo is (likely from your notebook with) only an IGP - that's not what V1del was looking for.

jojo06 · 2024-05-31 16:41:44

seth wrote:

Please don't randomly mix information - focus on one system.
The original post shows a geforce 1050ti, the glxinfo is (likely from your notebook with) only an IGP - that's not what V1del was looking for.

Sorry about that. I edited.

cryptearth · 2024-05-31 16:50:22

well - at least for Source2 any potato is sufficient to get stable 60+ fps - even my laptop with an i3 intel cpu and a nvid 710m performs without problems and manages even gta v and arma 3 for hours
the issues hint towards either some configuration issues - or, although unlikely, hardware defects
to put it this way: for cs and gta v a 9400 and a 1050ti are more than enough to get smooth gameplay
if you run out of system resources there's either some software or config causing leaks - or the hardware itself actually does have issues
to test the latter I would try synthetic benchmarks like memtest, prime and furmark - if they run fine at least your hardware should be ok
as for fixing faulty software - that can get to become an interesting journey

jojo06 · 2024-05-31 17:39:31

cryptearth wrote:

well - at least for Source2 any potato is sufficient to get stable 60+ fps - even my laptop with an i3 intel cpu and a nvid 710m performs without problems and manages even gta v and arma 3 for hours
the issues hint towards either some configuration issues - or, although unlikely, hardware defects
to put it this way: for cs and gta v a 9400 and a 1050ti are more than enough to get smooth gameplay
if you run out of system resources there's either some software or config causing leaks - or the hardware itself actually does have issues
to test the latter I would try synthetic benchmarks like memtest, prime and furmark - if they run fine at least your hardware should be ok
as for fixing faulty software - that can get to become an interesting journey

I know right ? I thought its a misconfiguration issues, i hope so.
Is it really going to be a hard and tough journey?

furmark
furmark --glinfo-all --fullscreen
http://0x0.st/XNnk.txt

I installed memtest86+ and pcmemtest(aur) both packages; returns `command not found`. How can i launch them ?
And what is the correct package name for `prime` ?

Thanks for helping.

Last edited by jojo06 (2024-06-01 07:36:53)

seth · 2024-05-31 20:41:12

It's also not a prime-sync issue, however

glxinfo32 -B # though afaiu this would just crash steam in either constellation
loginctl session-status # the compositor vsync might get in the way?

To rule out wine/steam/proton, please also test https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/warsow/

jojo06 · 2024-06-01 07:47:45

I edited the link/output of furmark, sorry it was a syntax issue.
Im running native by the way, no wine no proton. But for some games i use proton.

As for Warsow, the game opened quickly. No freezing/crashing, but the little window on the top right and the little windows that come up when I click `start game` are blinking/flashing. When the game is open, the values are normal as far as I can see from the other workspace. No abnormal cpu, gpu and vram usage. lib32-vulkan-intel i just installed.

EDIT:
After installing the Nvidia beta, I ran the game and at the login screen the CPU fan went into turbo mode. CPU usage is 100% and the temperature is 90 degrees. VRAM usage dropped from 4GB to 2GB. GPU usage is 90% and above but the temperature is 40 degrees. Ram is nearly used; 4GB and it was using a lot more than this with nvidia. How do I enable overheat protection?

Last edited by jojo06 (2024-06-01 10:20:24)

seth · 2024-06-01 14:12:28

You probably fudged the driver installation?
Please post your Xorg log, https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xorg#General

jojo06 · 2024-06-01 14:25:20

tail -f ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.1.log | ts

Jun 01 07:19:32 [ 10926.065] (II) UnloadModule: "libinput"
Jun 01 07:19:32 [ 10926.065] (II) systemd-logind: releasing fd for 13:72
Jun 01 07:19:32 [ 10926.105] (II) UnloadModule: "libinput"
Jun 01 07:19:32 [ 10926.105] (II) systemd-logind: releasing fd for 13:65
Jun 01 07:19:32 [ 10926.125] (II) UnloadModule: "libinput"
Jun 01 07:19:32 [ 10926.125] (II) systemd-logind: releasing fd for 13:73
Jun 01 07:19:32 [ 10926.161] (II) UnloadModule: "libinput"
Jun 01 07:19:32 [ 10926.161] (II) systemd-logind: releasing fd for 13:69
Jun 01 07:19:32 [ 10926.330] (II) NVIDIA(GPU-0): Deleting GPU-0
Jun 01 07:19:32 [ 10926.349] (II) Server terminated successfully (0). Closing log file.

cat ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.1.log | ts | curl -F 'file=@-' https://0x0.st
https://0x0.st/XN7v.txt

seth · 2024-06-01 14:33:51

Jun 01 07:23:55 [    12.839] Current Operating System: Linux roses 6.8.9-arch1-1 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Thu, 02 May 2024 17:49:46 +0000 x86_64
…
Jun 01 07:23:55 [    12.839] (==) Log file: "/home/guns/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.1.log", Time: Sun May  5 16:44:06 2024
…
Jun 01 07:23:55 [    12.858] (II) NVIDIA GLX Module  550.78  Sun Apr 14 06:29:36 UTC 2024
…
Jun 01 07:23:55 [ 10926.349] (II) Server terminated successfully (0). Closing log file.

That's not the beta driver, not the current kernel and today isn't may 5th and the server terminated after ~3h - is this an old log?

Edit: and please don't add confusing timestamps for no actual reason.

Last edited by seth (2024-06-01 14:34:54)

jojo06 · 2024-06-01 14:45:57

Sorry, when I didn't add the `ts` command I could only see it live. Not like `journalctl` output, but the kind of output that disappears when I press `q`.

The date I see on the gBar is the 1st day of the 6th month, I don't know why the printout shows May 5. No, it's not an old log, I just printed it.
If it does not show `Current kernel`, it is wrong again. Because I'm not in `lts` right now.

uname -r
6.9.3-arch1-1
uname -a
Linux roses 6.9.3-arch1-1 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Fri, 31 May 2024 15:14:45 +0000 x86_64 GNU/Linux

I did not install the beta driver, I pulled the package from aur, no other instructions were given. It was conflicting with nvidia, so I uninstalled nvidia and installed it instead. I thought that since the beta is nvidia after all, it shouldn't require any extra installation. But if it really doesn't and the beta still doesn't show, I think there's a pretty big problem, along with the other incorrect output?

seth · 2024-06-01 14:54:59

Please post the actually up-to-date xorg log, whatever you add via ts is meaningless.
The one you posted ran for three hours on may 5th.

jojo06 · 2024-06-01 15:29:43

Sure, here:
cat ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.1.log | curl -F 'file=@-' https://0x0.st
https://0x0.st/XNh-.txt

seth · 2024-06-01 15:36:36

[    12.839] (==) Log file: "/home/guns/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.1.log", Time: Sun May  5 16:44:06 2024

What makes you believe ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.1.log is anywhere close to the relevant file?
If you're using any kind of DM, the log is either in the system journal or /var/log and generally you're looking for the server on display :0, not :1

jojo06 · 2024-06-01 16:00:53

This is what I found after searching the Internet. I have done so for a couple of comments, and I have also specified the command I entered (precisely because of this). I am not looking for 0, it just returns 0 (according to what you said). I don't use Xorg but I have it installed. I am on hyprland, xwayland. I assume you know that, although I don't understand what my relationship with xorg is. I'm sorry I'm a Linux newbie, I'm a slow learner unless I work on it. From neofetch: `WM: sway` i dont have login manager and i dont have display manager.

guns@roses ~ % ls /var/log
audit  gdm        httpd    lastlog  old              pacman.log  swtpm
btmp   glusterfs  journal  libvirt  optimus-manager  private     wtmp

seth · 2024-06-01 18:34:51

I don't use Xorg but I have it installed. I am on hyprland, xwayland. I assume you know that

D'oh. And no, why would I?

Please post your complete system journal for the boot:

sudo journalctl -b | curl -F 'file=@-' 0x0.st

jojo06 · 2024-06-01 18:44:00

Sorry about that.
https://0x0.st/XNFW.txt

seth · 2024-06-01 18:55:40

Jun 01 03:11:17 roses systemd-coredump[1880]: Process 1842 (gldriverquery) of user 1000 dumped core.
                                              
                                              Stack trace of thread 1842:
                                              #0  0x00007d92ea86627f xcb_send_request_with_fds64 (libxcb.so.1 + 0x1427f)
                                              #1  0x00007d92ea866a6e xcb_send_request (libxcb.so.1 + 0x14a6e)
                                              #2  0x00007d92ea6f13d5 xcb_dri3_free_syncobj (libxcb-dri3.so.0 + 0x33d5)
                                              #3  0x00007d92ea23867e n/a (libGLX_nvidia.so.0 + 0xa067e)
                                              #4  0x00007d92ea21aca8 n/a (libGLX_nvidia.so.0 + 0x82ca8)
                                              #5  0x00007d92ea1ee2cf n/a (libGLX_nvidia.so.0 + 0x562cf)
                                              #6  0x00007d92e89f8925 n/a (libnvidia-glcore.so.555.42.02 + 0x9f8925)
                                              #7  0x00007d92e89f4591 n/a (libnvidia-glcore.so.555.42.02 + 0x9f4591)
                                              #8  0x00007d92ea1e97b6 n/a (libGLX_nvidia.so.0 + 0x517b6)
                                              #9  0x00007d92ea1e9eff n/a (libGLX_nvidia.so.0 + 0x51eff)
                                              #10 0x00007d92ea27a009 n/a (libGLX_nvidia.so.0 + 0xe2009)
                                              #11 0x00007d92eaf04fa1 n/a (libc.so.6 + 0x3efa1)
                                              #12 0x00007d92eaf0506e exit (libc.so.6 + 0x3f06e)
                                              #13 0x00007d92eaeebc8f n/a (libc.so.6 + 0x25c8f)
                                              #14 0x00007d92eaeebd4c __libc_start_main (libc.so.6 + 0x25d4c)
                                              #15 0x00005dc7d540b5ba n/a (/home/guns/.local/share/Steam/ubuntu12_64/gldriverquery + 0xb5ba)
                                              ELF object binary architecture: AMD x86-64

Jun 01 03:12:06 roses sudo[2780]:     guns : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/guns ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/bin/pacman -S lib32-nvidia-utils

But you would have required https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/lib3 … utils-beta

pacman -Qs nvidia

jojo06 · 2024-06-01 19:08:08

guns@roses ~ % sudo pacman -Qs nvidia
local/egl-wayland 2:1.1.13-2
    EGLStream-based Wayland external platform
local/libvdpau 1.5-2
    Nvidia VDPAU library
local/nvidia-beta-dkms 555.42.02-1
    NVIDIA driver sources for linux (beta version)
local/nvidia-utils-beta 555.42.02-1
    NVIDIA drivers utilities (beta version)
guns@roses ~ % sudo pacman -Ss lib32-nvidia-utils
multilib/lib32-nvidia-utils 550.78-2
    NVIDIA drivers utilities (32-bit)

I've got packages I've installed in case I need them. I've already set the conflicting ones. I manually uninstalled nvidia (I first uninstalled the required by nvidia packages) and installed nvidia-beta. I remember I probably interrupted that command halfway through. And yes, it did not shown but when I look at it again, thats what happened:

:: nvidia-utils-550.78-1 and nvidia-utils-beta-555.42.02-1 are in conflict (nvidia-libgl). Remove nvidia-utils-beta? [y/N] ^C
Interrupt signal received

I hope all is well according to `pacman -Qs nvidia`

cryptearth · 2024-06-01 20:43:55

The driver and utils have to match - so either use dricer and utils 550 - or driver-beta and utils-beta 555
so you have to switch lib32-nvidia-utils 550 for lib32-nvidia-utils-beta 555
or switch from nvid to amd

Last edited by cryptearth (2024-06-01 20:44:48)

jojo06 · 2024-06-01 22:10:15

I want to use the beta and with nvidia. `lib32-nvidia-utils-beta` installed. What else i have to do ?

cryptearth · 2024-06-01 23:42:59

well - if the driver and the utils match then you should be fine now - have you tried to reboot and test vulkaninfo and the games again?
sorry - I can't really help with nvidia (or intel) - I use amd for both cpu and gpu for since before win7 was made public back in 2009 - and hence don't have these issues: the radeon and amdgpu drivers come with the kernel and all I have to do is to download radv or amdvlk and good to go
if possible I would recommend to just get rid of that nvid card and get an amd one - or switch to windows (honestly - using google it's easy to find multiple ways to use windows without having to pay 300+ bucks for it - just sayin) - linux and nvidia are not a good combo - and at least in the past weeks some changes cause all different sorts of issues with nvid

jojo06 · 2024-06-02 02:07:57

After reboot vulkaninfo:
http://0x0.st/Xqsc.txt
Its 60 FPS now, it goes 60 in general bu i've rarely seen 90. Since I tried it with bots, the fps on the screen changes very fast, it's not the same online, I guess i have to look there. But i was blinking 59-60 or 50+ -60

Im kinda broke now
Otherwise, I have in mind to buy a 1TB SSD, I'm thinking of installing windows for gaming with dual boot. I mean, I'm not really a gamer, I haven't played for a few months. But I'm bored, sometimes you want to play some, you know? It's fun too, and I thought nvidia was better for linux, it's good that you said that, I'll switch to amd. Also, after seeing Linux, especially Arch Linux, I'll never go back to windows again.

I'm a programmer/developer and with all that I think Linux is the normal one. Especially when you realize how much of a joke windows is and they want 300$ for it -I learned this from you- Yes i was using one without 300+ bucks. And going for amd or dual boot will be smart for some gaming and stuff ?

--
About hardware:

By the way, let me ask you this, I don't plan to use it for a long time, but my motherboard supports 2600 mhz and my ram is 3200 mhz 16 GB, I was already thinking of increasing the ram. But I guess the last and easiest is Ram Will the AMD video card work on the Asus 310M-K V2 ? I'm talking about Rx 560 and Rx 570. If it doesn't work, I'll have to renew the motherboard and of course I'll have to renew the processor with it, so I'm collecting a new system. I don't really need it. I guess I can't use AMD processor with this motherboard and I can't change the processor. Even if the AMD GPU works with the motherboard, will there be a heavy performance loss? We are talking about CS 2 / LOL / Valorant type games, on medium settings but comfortable. So it's unnecessarily expensive. I guess there is no `bring the old one and get the new one` campaign ?

Last edited by jojo06 (2024-06-02 03:50:01)

Arch Linux

#1 2024-05-31 12:31:47

[SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#2 2024-05-31 13:29:22

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#3 2024-05-31 14:09:07

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#4 2024-05-31 14:41:53

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#5 2024-05-31 16:41:44

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#6 2024-05-31 16:50:22

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#7 2024-05-31 17:39:31

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#8 2024-05-31 20:41:12

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#9 2024-06-01 07:47:45

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#10 2024-06-01 14:12:28

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#11 2024-06-01 14:25:20

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#12 2024-06-01 14:33:51

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#13 2024-06-01 14:45:57

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#14 2024-06-01 14:54:59

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#15 2024-06-01 15:29:43

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#16 2024-06-01 15:36:36

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#17 2024-06-01 16:00:53

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#18 2024-06-01 18:34:51

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#19 2024-06-01 18:44:00

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#20 2024-06-01 18:55:40

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#21 2024-06-01 19:08:08

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#22 2024-06-01 20:43:55

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#23 2024-06-01 22:10:15

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#24 2024-06-01 23:42:59

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

#25 2024-06-02 02:07:57

Re: [SOLVED]Am i using correct renderer ?

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