[SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

jojo06 · 2024-06-06 10:10:36

My goal is to dual boot from 2 different SSDs. Arch will be installed on SSD 1 and Windows will be installed on SSD 2.

I boot with BIOS, disk type DOS, i have only root partition and swap partition on Arch SSD 1. And i only created one partition Microsoft Basic Data and formatted that to NTFS.

Do I need EFI/UEFI partition on Linux disk side or Windows disk side? Its only necessary on dual booting from single SSD, am i right ?

Last edited by jojo06 (2024-06-08 05:00:45)

V1del · 2024-06-06 10:36:56

Yes, assuming you're installing Windows in UEFI mode only the Windows SSD needs an ESP. You might want to consider switching the linux install to UEFI as well, but if not then they can technically coexist, but you'll have use your BIOS/UEFI bootloader to switch between the two boot modes.

Any reason you didn't setup linux in UEFI mode from the get go?

jojo06 · 2024-06-06 11:09:16

I'm very sorry, but even though I use deepl and I've tried it myself, I may not have fully understood what you mean. I would like to ask for learning and make sure that I don't broke anything.

As I understand it; If there will be dual boot there has to be at least 1 UEFI, and in this case it has to be on the windows disk. Do I understand this correctly? *No matter what is it RAID or LVM or seperated/same SSD

On the Linux side EUFI is recommended above all, whatever dual boot or not (which is what wiki and the forum wrote).

And yet my system will not work without UEFI? Or is it recommended to be UEFI?

On windows side:
I rebuilt the disk, 1GB EUFI space and the rest is microsof basic data. EUFI formatting is done and MSC is in the formatting process (ntfs) --this one GPT--

Linux side:
I edit the GPT part, sadly i realize this: `Disklabel type: dos` and warning when displaying it:

sudo gdisk /dev/sdb

Partition table scan:
  MBR: MBR only
  BSD: not present
  APM: not present
  GPT: not present

***************************************************************
Found invalid GPT and valid MBR; converting MBR to GPT format
in memory. THIS OPERATION IS POTENTIALLY DESTRUCTIVE! Exit by
typing 'q' if you don't want to convert your MBR partitions
to GPT format!
***************************************************************

Warning! Secondary partition table overlaps the last partition by
33 blocks!
You will need to delete this partition or resize it in another utility.

As for why I didn't install UEFI, I've done it a few times and I thought I'd give it a try. I guess I was looking for trouble. What can I do to get Linux to switch to EUFI?

cryptearth · 2024-06-06 11:24:53

The main point is: What is your firmware set to?
There're 3 options:
1) legacy bios: The bios is pre-uefi and hence only supports mbr booting. On a legacy bios you can not install windows on a gpt drive: You'll get a warning like "This drive is incompatible" or similar.
2) modern uefi with CSM enabled: behaves similar to legacy bios but usually both windows and linux still can boot from gpt drives
3) modern uefi without CSM/CSM disabled - regular gpt uefi boot

When you have two drives you can use them both together or both idependently no matter which style of firmware you run.
To get windows to operate can be a bit tricky as it has a habit of overriding other settings - but there're several solutions to this.

What is not possible: Whatever you set up - after you installed Windows you either have to stick to it or you have to reinstall windows along with the changes: Windows doesn't like it when you change the boot environment and often result in blue screen early during boot.

When you watch out for the pitfalls windows and linux can happy co-exists along eachother. For inter-OS data exchange you can either use NTFS or exFAT - while I recommend exFAT over NTFS as exFAT was made public by microsoft in 2019 while ntfs is kept closed and even the newest driver in 6.9/6.10 still isn't on par with microsofts own code.

Lone_Wolf · 2024-06-06 11:35:30

EFI boot requires using an EFI System Partition (typically shortened to ESP ) .
A drive can only hold 1 ESP but that can be shared by all OSes present on your system.
An alternative is to give each OS their own drive with their own ESP .

For modern hardware non-efi boot tends to have disadvantages.

Sidenote

cryptearth wrote:

3) modern uefi without CSM/CSM disabled - regular gpt uefi boot

Linux has no problem with combining uefi boot with MBR partioned drives, see the EFI System partition wiki page .
No idea if windows allows that .

jojo06 · 2024-06-06 12:10:26

It got too complicated for me, i dont understand what can i do. With this configuration its not booting the live USB.

V1del · 2024-06-06 12:33:10

What is your mainboard and does it even have UEFI support? Which Windows do you intend to install? "Normally" you'd not need to change anything on the linux side even if it was installed in BIOS mode, the relevant switchover can happen on your UEFI firmware side, but it has to support this and for that your mainboard vendor and version and it's available options are relevant.

jojo06 · 2024-06-06 13:10:53

Asus H310M-K v2.0, i dont know have UEFI support or not but i installed Arch with EUFI before. Windows 10 because 11 is kinda problematic. It will be only for gaming if 11 is easier and more stable than 10 than 11 will be.

EDIT: I didn't know dual boot was so hard. Is it because Im going to install it on 2 different disks? My friend suggested something called `windows to go` with rufus. It's designed directly for this, what do you think?

Last edited by jojo06 (2024-06-06 14:03:00)

V1del · 2024-06-06 13:57:57

That should be fine. You should be able to leave linux alone, install Windows in UEFI mode on the secondary SSD, which will create a new ESP for Windows on that secondary ESP (I'd suggest if you want the second SSD to be fully used by Windows to simply remove the partition you've already prepared and just let the Windows installer set things up on the secondary drive). Afterwards you can pick in your UEFI (via F10/Del) whether to boot the linux drive or the Windows Boot manager. You won't be able to have GRUB integration with the two systems since the boot modes are different.

Since you are using Windows 10 you could still install it in BIOS mode like you installed linux and you'd have integration with GRUB, but you can't update to Win 11 in that case.

jojo06 wrote:

It got too complicated for me, i dont understand what can i do. With this configuration its not booting the live USB.

What does that mean? Which USB can't be booted, what error messages do you get? What is "this configuration" exactly?

Last edited by V1del (2024-06-06 13:59:11)

jojo06 · 2024-06-06 14:11:45

V1del wrote:

You won't be able to have GRUB integration with the two systems since the boot modes are different.
Since you are using Windows 10 you could still install it in BIOS mode like you installed linux and you'd have integration with GRUB, but you can't update to Win 11 in that case.

Would i be able to select the OS will be boot from GRUB or not ?

V1del wrote:

I'd suggest if you want the second SSD to be fully used by Windows to simply remove the partition you've already prepared and just let the Windows installer set things up on the secondary drive

Did you mean ```Its recommended to windows may create some partitions for make install more efficient, do you want that ? Yes | No``` question ? Its not creating otherwise. Is that ESP partition ? Its creating 100 MB partition and 1 or 2 more partitions...
I deleted the partition.

*The windows 10 image i burnt to USB. No error message, its just booting the Arch. Configuration meaning whatever i shared in this thread. Disks, partitions, my output.

V1del · 2024-06-06 14:28:38

If you install Windows in BIOS mode you will be able to integrate it with GRUB yes, but you need to pick the correct usb entry in your UEFI (it will usually be denoted with e.g. [BIOS] + name of the USB stick or so, in doubt link a screenshot of your available boot media when in the UEFI firmware).

Yes I mean that option. If you pick the correct drive in the installer it will set things up for Windows. The 100MB partition is likely the ESP yes, then it will do some restoring/backup partition and the main partition your C: drive will be on.

jojo06 · 2024-06-06 14:46:22

EUFI in boot priority: USB-name and USB-label are the 2 options at the top. I even try to boot by clicking them. Its not booting into it. Secure boot problem or smt ? I tried to use another iso/image writer. It sees the USB UEFI but doesnt boot into it.
Edit: When i try to click UEFI Kingston USB from bios its just refreshing the screen / flashing 1 time. Its not showing any errors but its not launching, then i click the second one Kingston USB (in my system there is always two [ EUFI + `usb name` ] and [ `usb name` ] ) and than ones booted in Arch again. I cant boot the USB (windows installer iso). Tried to select EUFI mode in secure boot (it was `Other OS` selected). Fast boot is the problem maybe ?

Last edited by jojo06 (2024-06-06 14:52:47)

cryptearth · 2024-06-06 15:04:02

There seems to be some confusion here - so let me clear this up:

legacy BIOS or UEFI with CSM: both Windows and Linux can only be installed in legacy BIOS fashion - disk as MBR and a single main system partition
UEFI without CSM: the "modern" way - both Windows and Linux can only be install in UEFI mode - the disk is REQUIRED to be as GPT and at least one ESP (short for EFI System Partition) to store the bootloader

There is no such thing as "install windows in UEFI but linux in BIOS/legacy/CSM" - you only either have to install all OS in one way or another!
The only way to achieve different styles is to switch between CSM enabled or disabled when you cold reboot - which you usually want to avoid.

The Asus H310M-K v2.0 is a modern UEFI platform - in ASUS UEFI usually the CSM is found in the BOOT tab (use F7 to switch from "EZ Mode" to advanced mode). To take advantage you want to have CSM set to DISABLED so the system runs in modern uefi mode.
With UEFI it's meant to have to firmware as boot selector - so oldschool boot-"managers" like GRUB are no longer needed as both linux and linux support uefi-stub boot. So with two drives one will have linux only with its ESP - and the other one only windows with its ESP - and to switch between them use the boot select of the uefi firmware.

However - you can still use grub and get away with one combined ESP on either of the drives and chain windows from grub - that's how I have set up my system and it's rather easy.

I see a way more basic problem here: From the flow of this thread it seems you not have much experience with uefi and how modern OSs are booted. I would even go one step futher to call your other issue related somewhat related: A very messed up system. As I tested: On my fresh clean install all works fine - and I bet a fresh clean install will solve your issue as well. It just depends on if you can afford to wipe to drives and do clean installs of two OSs. Currently I see you struggle quite hard on a task I did for fun on the Steam Deck of my friend managed to install windows 10 on a SD card - which is usually impossible as the regular windows installer denies installing on a removeable media.

Sure I can babysit you all the way thru how to set up a dual-boot like I did on my system with one drive or even similar to the Steam Deck with two drives - but from what I read here so far there's lot of misunderstanding and lack of knowledge. Honestly I would recommend you just to setup windows with its default installer in UEFI mode on one of the drives and play with linux in a VM instead of on real hardware. Unless your private data are save on some external drive I see data loss incoming - if not already happen.

Sorry to sound so harsh - I don't mean to - and I really want to help - but unfortunately I'm not good with explaining and struggle to help others if they don't understand me due to lack of experience. It's a bit like when I tried to explain someone how TLS works and what a TPM can be used for without them understanding the basics of modern cryptography - it's like talking to my cat.

jojo06 · 2024-06-06 15:32:31

I don't know what to say, I'm tired. I just wanted to play some games. I don't know anything about boot, I just learned about the effects of hardware on boot. I've been using Arch for a few months and so has my office laptop. Unfortunately I always learn hard, I guess because I don't read much. But when I see Linux, windows seems like a child's work. I can never switch to windows again even if I wanted to. All this talk and explanations are too advanced for me. Maybe I don't know because I'm too preoccupied, that's why I wanted to spread it out a bit.

V1del · 2024-06-06 16:21:54

the [ usb name ] entry without the [UEFI] prefix should be correct for a BIOS boot. If neither of the two entries work then either your USB is dead, or you got a broken ISO or... but that's a Windows issue at that point and you'd have to figure that out on a Windows forum.

jojo06 · 2024-06-06 16:31:03

V1del wrote:

the [ usb name ] entry without the [UEFI] prefix should be correct for a BIOS boot. If neither of the two entries work then either your USB is dead, or you got a broken ISO or... but that's a Windows issue at that point and you'd have to figure that out on a Windows forum.

I tried with another USB, but yes it might be dead too. Is there a way i can verify ?

EDIT: I tried with another USB it was working recently. Now i tried to windows 11 iso its same.

Last edited by jojo06 (2024-06-06 17:44:33)

Manix · 2024-06-07 07:34:44

if it helps, i have the same configuration all in UEFI :
CSM disabled, fastboot disabled.

- disk 1, linux installation with ESP (free to choose the boot program) https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_b … oot_loader .

- disk 2, installation of windows 11, the windows bootloader detects the ESP partition on disk 1 and “sits” quietly in it.

remember to look here too: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dual_boot_with_Windows

jojo06 · 2024-06-08 05:00:30

Solution:

woeusb << This iso burner makes USB bootable. With other programs, my system was not seen as bootable device. And there is another package alternative: ventoy

And enable TPM for win11 but h310m-k needs a chip for w11 installation so i choose w10.
Fast boot has to be disabled only for data sharing. Otherwise not a problem.
For win10 Secure Boot will be selected/disabled as `other OS` For win11 it must be enabled

Unplug the Arch SSD Only the windows SSD (which will be installed on) be plugged. And install...

Finally, grub will be reinstalled and reconfigured.

If you get the following output: Warning: os-prober will not be executed to detect other bootable partitions then edit /etc/default/grub and add/uncomment:
GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=false
Then try again.

This will detect and print the `Windows 10/11 detected` output

And you are good to go. There may be issue GRUB manager may not show windows on dual boot (i saw it when i unplugged win and Arch plugged in). Because pc does not reboot properly. I totally shutdown (it was doing emergency restart and a fast one) with turning of power supply from button; (turn 0 from 1) and give the power again and start your computer again.

There you go.

Last edited by jojo06 (2024-06-08 06:56:55)

cryptearth · 2024-06-08 09:21:05

Well - a few things I like to point out:

win11 tpm and secureboot requiredment - that's total marketing-BS from M$ to keep thier hands in hardware development something like back from the IBM deals
although I do agree that both secure boot and tpm are usefull stuff for specific use cases - it's a waste of time and resources for the average joe and does cause replacement of hardware still working totally fine - just because M$ wants it this way because they get thier share from every new system
you can, however, get win11 running on a system without a tpm - and even with secureboot disabled - but then it will bite you in the back by denying you access to important updates because "your system doesn't fulfil the requirements" - something the EU is already crafting yet another trail against M$ - it's not the first time they were dragged to court and it won't be the last time

"burn" an image onto a usb thumbdrive - although I understand that this term comes from the days when we all used to burn optical media it's not a good way to set up a uefi boot media
a better way is to just format it with one partition with fat32 - the way the uefi spec requires it - and just copy a few essentials for booting: a bootloader into >/EFI/BOOT/BOOTx64.EFI and a config in a place where it belongs and some live stuff like a win-pe boot.wim or an archinstall airootfs.sfs
"burning" an image is only require for legacy stuff where the bios looks for a mbr and bootcode installed into it
as for win-pe: even the official docs in the msdn explains it this way: use the AIK to copy all you need into a new working directory - make required changes, if any - just copy the contents of "media" folder onto a thumbdrive with a single fat32 partition
same can be done with grub
there's no need for tools like rufus or dd if=image of=usb-thumbdrive

"installing" windows - well, often the term "installing" is just misunderstood or misused - as all it means is this: "unpack packed program files into a specific location and create configs in require places" - that's it - there's nothin magical to "installing" an OS from scratch any more than run
./configure
make
make install
on linux - as all it does is to copy the files from the build directory to the target location and write some configs
so - how do we do this with windows? the same way we do arch: format the drive - use dism to unpack the install.wim - use bdcboot to put the bootloader in place
have a look for "windows the arch way" - that's how I got it working on a sd card on a steam deck and how I set up my dual-boot
the last step, using bcdboot to install the bootloader, can get into conflict with existing bootloaders - as windows has the bad habit to not just install its bootloader into EFI/Microsoft but also override the fallback path in EFI/BOOT/bootx64.efi
you also can't deny bcdboot to create an entry into the uefi bootorder - there's only a switch to have it added to the end - the default is to set it as first and therefore default option - quite aggressive

so - tldr: it's not that hard to get windows and linux working side-by-side - and it doesn't require much effort nor time but a bit of knowledge about what you do - and a bit of experience does help, too
as with anything related to bare metal and full-partition or even full-drive stuff: make sure to have your data on something external NOT connected to the system while doing the install - oh have I lost so many TB of personal data because I made that stupid mistake
if you want to exchange data between windows and linux - use exFAT - not ntfs! ntfs is error prone - you will corrupt or lose your data!
also use the exfat only for the exchange - always use os native FS for actual work

Arch Linux

#1 2024-06-06 10:10:36

[SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#2 2024-06-06 10:36:56

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#3 2024-06-06 11:09:16

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#4 2024-06-06 11:24:53

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#5 2024-06-06 11:35:30

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#6 2024-06-06 12:10:26

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#7 2024-06-06 12:33:10

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#8 2024-06-06 13:10:53

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#9 2024-06-06 13:57:57

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#10 2024-06-06 14:11:45

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#11 2024-06-06 14:28:38

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#12 2024-06-06 14:46:22

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#13 2024-06-06 15:04:02

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#14 2024-06-06 15:32:31

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#15 2024-06-06 16:21:54

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#16 2024-06-06 16:31:03

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#17 2024-06-07 07:34:44

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#18 2024-06-08 05:00:30

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

#19 2024-06-08 09:21:05

Re: [SOLVED] Dual Boot from Separate SSD

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