why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

rek · 2024-11-07 05:33:48

I realize that ext2 is old, but is there a good reason why ext2 isn't an option in archinstall?

I find it a little bit tedious to need two computers to set up arch (one to follow the guide), and archinstall has been the only way i've been successful at installing arch in recent years, and I want to use ext2 not ext4 or btrfs.

I've manually set up partitions (including the fat32 boot partition...) and archinstall just crashes with red text. maybe i need to mount them first, but i digress.

inb4 "archinstall script is for experienced users, please refer to the installation guide at https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Installation_guide" because, again, i only got arch to install one time using the manual method, and i've installed arch multiple times using archinstall because it's relatively unattended. (it's easy, if using automatic partitoning)

is it feasible for a system administrator to just edit the python script to add ext2 as an option for the automatic partitioning?

Last edited by rek (2024-11-07 05:41:40)

Awebb · 2024-11-07 06:05:07

Yes, no, probably not for you. If manually installing Arch doesn't work for you, then, to be brutally honest, helping you hack archinstall would not be easier for anyone involved than supporting you with the default installation process. I also question the wisdom of using ext2 in 2024 and I'm half-afraid you'll end up back here after the first power fluctuation, but you probably have good reasons to prefer ext2.

What you could do: Walk through the archinstall process and in the end, instead of executing the install, save the profile. Then edit the profile and use archinstall to run that.

Regarding your inb4: This is not reddit, we're not going to tell you what archinstall is for, we're going to tell you straight away, that it is unsupported. Despite that, passive-aggressive stances like this will prime the folks here and get you shit answers and them in trouble.

rek · 2024-11-07 08:17:37

Awebb wrote:

Yes, no, probably not for you. If manually installing Arch doesn't work for you, then, to be brutally honest, helping you hack archinstall would not be easier for anyone involved than supporting you with the default installation process. I also question the wisdom of using ext2 in 2024 and I'm half-afraid you'll end up back here after the first power fluctuation, but you probably have good reasons to prefer ext2.
What you could do: Walk through the archinstall process and in the end, instead of executing the install, save the profile. Then edit the profile and use archinstall to run that.
Regarding your inb4: This is not reddit, we're not going to tell you what archinstall is for, we're going to tell you straight away, that it is unsupported. Despite that, passive-aggressive stances like this will prime the folks here and get you shit answers and them in trouble.

pardon the cheek with the inb4, what i meant to suggest is i already searched about similar questions and usually there is a stock answer, which I totally understand. I know the point of Arch is to learn what one is doing, but really any linux system requires a lot of wetware human brain memory retention or at least a lot of searching around for solutions to things. The tip about the .json edit seems like a great idea. (Next I need to learn how to save the config while inside the live environment, which i am reading about in another thread already) I should have kept my question short without revealing too much about my personal weak points.

Last edited by rek (2024-11-07 08:18:27)

WorMzy · 2024-11-07 08:26:13

Mod note: moving to Archinstall sub forum.

seth · 2024-11-07 08:46:42

Awebb wrote:

I also question the wisdom of using ext2 in 2024 and I'm half-afraid you'll end up back here after the first power fluctuation, but you probably have good reasons to prefer ext2.

I fundamentally disagree w/ Awebb and don't buy at all that you've "good reasons to prefer ext2" so maybe briefly address why you're under the false impression this might be a good idea so we can spare you the effort to set it up itfp.

inb4: while usually not a good idea, you can turn the ext4 journal off

mpan · 2024-11-07 09:27:34

Awebb may be right with the sarcastic mention of “good reasons.” No matter which copy/hardlink⁽¹⁾ of the command is used to create the filesystem, after mounting it is accessed as ext4 only. Behavior differs based on which options are enabled during creation. So the perceived benefits may be a mirage, unless those indeed are some options (like the journal being turned off).
____
⁽¹⁾

 $ sha1sum /usr/bin/mkfs.ext{2,3,4} /usr/bin/mke2fs
75b32aca568705decdbcf979c3db191936f8c223  /usr/bin/mkfs.ext2
75b32aca568705decdbcf979c3db191936f8c223  /usr/bin/mkfs.ext3
75b32aca568705decdbcf979c3db191936f8c223  /usr/bin/mkfs.ext4
75b32aca568705decdbcf979c3db191936f8c223  /usr/bin/mke2fs

Last edited by mpan (2024-11-07 09:29:40)

rek · 2024-11-07 09:28:37

seth wrote:

Awebb wrote:
I also question the wisdom of using ext2 in 2024 and I'm half-afraid you'll end up back here after the first power fluctuation, but you probably have good reasons to prefer ext2.
I fundamentally disagree w/ Awebb and don't buy at all that you've "good reasons to prefer ext2" so maybe briefly address why you're under the false impression this might be a good idea so we can spare you the effort to set it up itfp.
inb4: while usually not a good idea, you can turn the ext4 journal off

good point. I understand that ext2 is deprecated. but since it is functional it could just as well be an option buried in the dropdown menu, and it could be recommended against using it.

V1del · 2024-11-07 09:57:31

As seth (... and implicitly almost everyone else) asked, why would you want to do that in the first place?

rek · 2024-11-07 10:21:54

V1del wrote:

As seth (... and implicitly almost everyone else) asked, why would you want to do that in the first place?

in cases where operational security is more important than system integrity. why format with a journaling system if you're just going to switch off journaling?
Shredding empty space or writing random data doesn't remove all of the old data on ext4 or a journaling file system, but it does so more reliably with ext2.
this is not to say that anyone _should_ use ext2, but in the event one does wish to do so, it should be allowed. (unless doing so is fatal to the installation process)
But of course this is a curatorial decision to omit the option, which I can only respect since the script developers generously provided the script.

Last edited by rek (2024-11-07 10:33:31)

cryptearth · 2024-11-07 14:26:00

I smell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem

rek wrote:

archinstall has been the only way i've been successful at installing arch in recent years
archinstall just crashes with red text
archinstall script is for experienced users, please refer to the installation guide at https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Installation_guide because, again, i only got arch to install one time using the manual method, and i've installed arch multiple times using archinstall because it's relatively unattended

well - you rather should work your way through the manual install as it is fundamental to understand how the base system of arch work
failing to proper understand it often leads to topics such as "update failed" or "unable to boot after update" and similar
if you struggle with specific parts of the install we're happy to guide you thru - but just using archinstall because you fail the manual way ... let me put it this way: archinstall comes with several pitfalls that have to be fixed after the install anyway - so not using it is actual the easier and faster option (the time one spents digging thru the menu I already have the drive partitioned, mounted and running pacstrap already)
sure - many here spent thier free time helping others - but this "I have chosen that way and I will go it no matter what" ... how should I put it: you have to find someone willing coming along that route

seth · 2024-11-07 14:39:20

@mpan, makefs.ext2 will still generate an ext2 filesystem that has a different structure from ext4 - the tools and drivers just flatten this.

@rek, if you really care about security you should™ encrypt the filesystem to "shred" it the moment you close the vault.
If it's about selling off drives, you want to steamroll dd over it
Otherwise purging the journal and running zerofree should™ clear old inodes incl. the journal? The bigger issue would likely be SSD trimming?

Awebb · 2024-11-07 15:30:23

seth wrote:

I fundamentally disagree w/ Awebb and don't buy at all that you've "good reasons to prefer ext2"

That was indeed sarcasm, but I wanted to indulge OP nonetheless, as experiments with the file system are an integral part of the learning process.

seth · 2024-11-07 15:32:24

I actually kinda got that and the "fundamentally disagree" part was meant tongue in cheek, but the board only has tongue out

Last edited by seth (2024-11-07 15:33:06)

rek · 2024-11-07 21:28:15

i appreciate the responses, I'm not worried per se, only curious as to why it's not an option. Didn't mean to drop a powder keg of snark from the 'inb4' i just knew that the answer would be to follow the instructions for the regular installation method. It was my way of saying that I know that there's an instruction page for manual installation. I just found the archinstall script to be really easy and lazy to get an install done without needing to follow a guide, and more importantly, not needing to rely on some random arch offshoot distro. I'm cool with the operating system not able to do anything until i explicitly want it to do a thing.

my reasons for wanting to try ext2 might be naive, but conversely someone who is a super expert might have a bizarre reason to use it that none of us could fathom, or maybe they're overly nostalgic about the early days of linux or they're a genuine troglodyte.

i apologize for rubbing any of you the wrong way by using the evil tetragrammaton from reddit, because I know you can dish it out just as good as I can. so I say "uncle" and let's just say good game.

Last edited by rek (2024-11-07 21:36:22)

cryptearth · 2024-11-08 00:31:34

well - ext2 wasn't superseded and got deprecated for nothing - and unless you really have some very specific reason for it has to be ext2 it's adviced not to be used - with "I just want to" should only be used for the sake of learning about history

seth · 2024-11-08 08:17:35

No worries, nobody here got rubbed (I think)

About the installer:
1. the official excuse is "for advanced users who want to customize mass deployment" and those can be expected to adjust it to whatever their specific need are
2. the realistc use is "lazy noobs but at least it's not a youtube tutorial" - none of those users will EVER have a "bizarre reason" to select ext2. To the contrary: handing them stupid options will just make them do stupid things because they've no idea what to do itfp. (and probably should not install arch, but eg. one of the pre-fabricated derivates if they like pacman/the AUR)

someone who is a super expert might have a bizarre reason

will probably not have that super expert bizarre reason for the general system and just setup a loop device and "overly nostalgic about the early days of linux" will likely rather browse https://guidebookgallery.org/screenshots

Awebb · 2024-11-09 05:56:35

Any "super experts" will probably not use guided mode for anything but creating a rough profile outline and then customize it. The guided installer will also lead noobs into the occasional trap, because it doesn't do most of the arch-chroot stuff, so reading the installation guide isn't optional, either. I dare you to go to the archlinux subreddit and search for "archinstall" and just read a few threads, you'll notice how almost all of the support volume there stems from people watching a youtube video or simply assume things about archinstall. The archinstall docs explicity state, that the guided installer doesn't support dual boot at this point, but people have been wrecking their only computer into a seemingly "unrecoverable" state, because they did not know, that a) bye Windows and b) their recovery partition will go away, so Windows will be unrecoverable without a USB medium.

rek · 2024-11-09 07:34:45

i've been playing the long game of chess, manually setting up an old laptop, and the thing is just cooking at 40 degrees C on a shelf for days while i get stuck between moves. dont have the desk space to operate two computers side by side, printed out the guide and it's too terse to be useful on its own. setup using a phone as a reference browser is less than elegant. plus other things to do. the learning curve is kind of comical. archinstall is like, instantaneous setup. manual install might never get done without a youtube tutorial since there are many variables like partitioning structures, encryption options, etc, the equipment. is it a 20 year old laptop or is it a 2024 whatever-is-new tech. the main issue with archinstall is the difficulty of setting partition sizes or installing o existing partitions, and needs to be resized afterwards by eternal noobs like myself, unless you're a moderately expertish old timer. i shouldnt be using arch, but after doing so for about a year i feel icky about using a third party distro. the cool thing about manually setting up is realizing chrooting and running pacman installs things. the not so fun stuff is when rebooting and can't find grub. i'd apologize for digressing but digressing is almost the general theme of the exercise of tinkering with arch. there's a certain sense of satisfaction of getting linux in general to function, but unless i constantly hone the skills, the memory fades like sand through an hourglass, one nugget of knowledge at a time disappearing into the great dev null.

Last edited by rek (2024-11-09 07:49:27)

seth · 2024-11-09 07:40:45

manual install might never get done without a youtube tutorial since there are many variables like partitioning structures, encryption options

Which is precisely why youtube tutorials, that are just intall scripts turning you into a script interpreter, don't cut it.

i shouldnt be using arch

That's frankly the gist of this thread.

rek · 2024-11-09 07:56:39

i shouldnt be using arch

That's frankly the gist of this thread.

i guess even a broken clock (me) can be right twice a day

Awebb · 2024-11-09 11:51:02

Return when you have time to spare and try again. My first attempt with Arch was unsuccessful, too, because I didn't understand, that the AUR wasn't "full of shit" when in reality my pre-compiled AUR helper from some repo was broken.

Arch Linux

#1 2024-11-07 05:33:48

why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#2 2024-11-07 06:05:07

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#3 2024-11-07 08:17:37

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#4 2024-11-07 08:26:13

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#5 2024-11-07 08:46:42

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#6 2024-11-07 09:27:34

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#7 2024-11-07 09:28:37

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#8 2024-11-07 09:57:31

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#9 2024-11-07 10:21:54

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#10 2024-11-07 14:26:00

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#11 2024-11-07 14:39:20

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#12 2024-11-07 15:30:23

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#13 2024-11-07 15:32:24

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#14 2024-11-07 21:28:15

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#15 2024-11-08 00:31:34

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#16 2024-11-08 08:17:35

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#17 2024-11-09 05:56:35

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#18 2024-11-09 07:34:45

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#19 2024-11-09 07:40:45

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#20 2024-11-09 07:56:39

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

#21 2024-11-09 11:51:02

Re: why isn't ext2 selectable during archinstall?

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