[SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

levalithan · 2024-11-24 13:00:44

Running fsck from the multi-user.target does not cause it to blow up, nothing suspicious in dmesg or journal either.

update: edited title since this is no longer exclusive to NTFS. will try running with the LTS kernel.

update 2: LTS kernel causes drive to crash.

Last edited by levalithan (2024-11-24 14:04:50)

seth · 2024-11-24 19:55:25

Running fsck from the multi-user.target does not cause it to blow up, nothing suspicious in dmesg or journal either.

If otherwise fsck has reliably triggered the problem, can you replicate it
1. with a fresh user account
2. running a different session (eg. sway or icewm or so)

levalithan · 2024-11-24 20:30:38

switching from qtile to bspwm, fsck works and drive doesn't seem to crash, even when booting vesktop (which will also usually reliably crash it). will compare my autostart scripts for both WMs to see what might be causing it, if anything.

edit: spoke too soon, it just crashed haha. will try on a new user account

edit 2: brand new user account has the same issue. fsck now (usually) works but opening vesktop or steam will reliably crash the disk after a certain amount of time.

Last edited by levalithan (2024-11-24 20:38:13)

seth · 2024-11-25 09:07:44

fsck now (usually) works

So basically the grml results are unreliable?

Did this start w/ 6.11.7? Was 6.11.6 still good?
Do you still have the issue w/ the brand new 6.12 kernel?

levalithan · 2024-11-25 11:05:14

just to verify, downloaded the vesktop appimage (which crashed it on normal install) in GRML and it didn't crash the disk. Will try with the brand new kernel

edit: happens on newest kernel too. I think at this point i might just try a fresh inistall of arch (or some other distro) to see if it would change anything

Last edited by levalithan (2024-11-25 11:11:01)

seth · 2024-11-25 14:06:36

I'd first briefly try the LTS kernel.
Is there anything special about your usb stick? Any out-of-tree drivers from some usb device?

On caveat: grml is (likely) running from a usb key and that might have an impact as well.

levalithan · 2024-11-25 14:17:44

again, tried with the LTS kernel and got the same result. crashes all round.

don't believe there's anything unique about my usb stick. just a simple 64GB drive with ventoy on it.

seth · 2024-11-25 14:23:32

I didn't specifically mean the usb stick - more like "anything super-odd on the USB that might jam the bus", drivers for your input devices etc et pp.

levalithan · 2024-11-25 14:35:58

ohhh right. sorry.

the only thing i could possibly think of is my graphics tablet or audio interface. I dont really have any other super demanding drivers.

levalithan · 2024-11-28 00:36:58

random observation. on recent attempts to fix this issue, whenever the disk crashes i notice my audio will sometimes cut out. Disk seems to be stable while my audio interface is 'dead', but will crash again if i unplug it and then plug it back in. I think these two devices are conflicting somehow.

seth · 2024-11-28 06:57:20

With audio and disk attached, please run and print

lsusb -tv

subwaypassenger · 2024-11-28 10:07:31

Have you done Memtest?

levalithan · 2024-11-28 13:09:30

seth wrote:

With audio and disk attached, please run and print
lsusb -tv

here:

/:  Bus 001.Port 001: Dev 001, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/16p, 480M
    ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
    |__ Port 005: Dev 002, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
        ID 28bd:092b XP-Pen
    |__ Port 005: Dev 002, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
        ID 28bd:092b XP-Pen
    |__ Port 005: Dev 002, If 2, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbfs, 12M
        ID 28bd:092b XP-Pen
    |__ Port 011: Dev 003, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
        ID 05e3:0608 Genesys Logic, Inc. Hub
    |__ Port 012: Dev 004, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
        ID 048d:8297 Integrated Technology Express, Inc. IT8297 RGB LED Controller
    |__ Port 013: Dev 005, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
        ID 05e3:0608 Genesys Logic, Inc. Hub
        |__ Port 001: Dev 007, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
            ID 046d:c08b Logitech, Inc. G502 SE HERO Gaming Mouse
        |__ Port 001: Dev 007, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
            ID 046d:c08b Logitech, Inc. G502 SE HERO Gaming Mouse
        |__ Port 002: Dev 008, If 0, Class=Mass Storage, Driver=usb-storage, 480M
            ID 0781:5595 SanDisk Corp.
        |__ Port 003: Dev 009, If 0, Class=Audio, Driver=snd-usb-audio, 480M
            ID 17cc:1840 Native Instruments
        |__ Port 003: Dev 009, If 1, Class=Audio, Driver=snd-usb-audio, 480M
            ID 17cc:1840 Native Instruments
        |__ Port 003: Dev 009, If 2, Class=Audio, Driver=snd-usb-audio, 480M
            ID 17cc:1840 Native Instruments
        |__ Port 003: Dev 009, If 3, Class=Application Specific Interface, Driver=[none], 480M
            ID 17cc:1840 Native Instruments
        |__ Port 004: Dev 010, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
            ID f901:f902
        |__ Port 004: Dev 010, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
            ID f901:f902
    |__ Port 014: Dev 006, If 0, Class=Wireless, Driver=btusb, 12M
        ID 8087:0aaa Intel Corp. Bluetooth 9460/9560 Jefferson Peak (JfP)
    |__ Port 014: Dev 006, If 1, Class=Wireless, Driver=btusb, 12M
        ID 8087:0aaa Intel Corp. Bluetooth 9460/9560 Jefferson Peak (JfP)
/:  Bus 002.Port 001: Dev 001, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/10p, 10000M
    ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
    |__ Port 003: Dev 008, If 0, Class=Mass Storage, Driver=usb-storage, 5000M
        ID 0480:a306 Toshiba America Inc

subwaypassenger wrote:

Have you done Memtest?

Have not tried yet, can attempt soonish

Last edited by levalithan (2024-11-28 13:10:14)

seth · 2024-11-28 18:49:38

If we're talking about these two (ie. not the toshiba drive)

        |__ Port 002: Dev 008, If 0, Class=Mass Storage, Driver=usb-storage, 480M
            ID 0781:5595 SanDisk Corp.
        |__ Port 003: Dev 009, If 0, Class=Audio, Driver=snd-usb-audio, 480M
            ID 17cc:1840 Native Instruments

this makes quite some sense as you're running to power-hungry devices in the same USB2 hub.

Windows and grml might simply have left your USB audio alone, leaving just enough power for the disk.
Can you try to move the audio device to Port 011 ?

levalithan · 2024-11-29 16:08:42

port 011 is one of the front ports on the PC. I plugged the audio interface into it and it works, but the drive still crashes.

edit: ran memtest too. everything passed perfectly. I'm currently using my pc with the problematic drive plugged in and mounted, audio interface disconnected, and it seems fine so far.

Last edited by levalithan (2024-11-29 17:04:49)

levalithan · 2024-12-08 17:22:30

still doesn't work. have no idea where to go from here. i've confirmed it's not just my audio interface causing it. trying to launch a game from the drive also causes it to disconnect. seems to be caused by literally any kind of input or output going through my pc

Last edited by levalithan (2024-12-08 17:27:11)

seth · 2024-12-08 21:54:09

My lat best guess would be to try a powered usb hub.
The odd part would be the grml behavior (though not sure how reliable those tests were, since they were likely not excessive?)

Since it's been > 1 week, would you say removing hte audio interface has significanty lowered the frequency or was there just an "odd" gap where you didn't have any problems at all and then suddenly the drive started to fail just as before?

levalithan · 2024-12-08 23:06:45

with the audio interface removed, it would still crash, just less often. with it plugged in (and in use, playing audio) it would crash every few seconds. drives makes an audible click sound and disconnect. without it, it'll still do that, just triggered by something else like accessing it with fsck or trying to play a game using it

seth · 2024-12-09 07:19:04

It very much sounds like the drive emergency retracts for power loss and the pattern suggest the board doesn't provide enough, not so much a powersaving measure.
Next to a powered hub you could also attempt a y-cable but the 4.5W USB3 are barely less than the theoretical 5W you'd get out of that.

levalithan · 2024-12-09 14:10:21

Will try a powered USB dock soon. I'm just confused, this wasn't an issue for a while at all on my system. It happened overnight while I was installing Call of Duty Black Ops 3 through steam onto the drive some weeks ago. Feels weird that the drive(s) performed fine til that, and now they're unusable.

seth · 2024-12-09 14:15:57

You could attempt to https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_L … cific_date or just downgrade the kernel (keep the current LTS kernel around so you'll have something to boot and won't have to fix the system offline - downgrading the kernel typically is fine but if you go back too much you can run into compression algorithm or toolchain incompatibilities w/ the userspace. But that's rare)

Your BIOS firmware was listed as from 2019, so that probably hasn't changed.

Did you install or configure some hdparm service that might suspend the drive and that sends it to death?
(But then, again: why would he audio device have any impact?)

levalithan · 2024-12-11 12:51:15

seth wrote:

Did you install or configure some hdparm service that might suspend the drive and that sends it to death?

Not that I can think of. This has been the only device that's been necessary for me to even think about using hdparm with. Everything else on the system is an SSD of some kind (one is the m.2 internal disk, others are simple USB sticks). Perhaps I'll just refund this one too and consider getting an SSD instead, maybe it'll play nicer.

Thanks for the help though. Probably just going to wait until a kernel update that might fix this, or will try a usb hub whenever I can get my hands on it. Will put [SOLVED] in the title for now.

subwaypassenger · 2024-12-13 18:26:12

How much power has the computer? Mayby the 4tb power draw is too much.

levalithan · 2024-12-13 18:40:03

subwaypassenger wrote:

How much power has the computer? Mayby the 4tb power draw is too much.

I have a 600W PSU installed currently. You're probably correct.

levalithan · 2024-12-15 18:55:57

Okay, crazy update.

Recently wanted a change of pace from Qtile, decided to install KDE Plasma. Got curious about the drive again, friends wanted me to install a game, decided to see if it would work or if I'd need to get a USB hub for Christmas. Casually plug it into one of the front ports on my PC, let KDE mount it. Think "I forgot to run fsck", unmount it, run fsck and it didn't crash. Vesktop and Steam are already open, Audio Interface is plugged in, it hasn't crashed. Think "maybe it's just being lucky" and try to play a game from Steam. Didn't crash. Maybe something got updated that fixed it for now?? But it seems to be fine for the minute. Will update again if anything else happens, maybe the ports on the back of my pc are busted.

edit: nevermind. opening Krita through Steam made it crash immediately haha. getting a powered USB hub tomorrow, wish me luck.

Last edited by levalithan (2024-12-15 19:26:43)

Arch Linux

#51 2024-11-24 13:00:44

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#52 2024-11-24 19:55:25

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#53 2024-11-24 20:30:38

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#54 2024-11-25 09:07:44

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#55 2024-11-25 11:05:14

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#56 2024-11-25 14:06:36

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#57 2024-11-25 14:17:44

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#58 2024-11-25 14:23:32

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#59 2024-11-25 14:35:58

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#60 2024-11-28 00:36:58

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#61 2024-11-28 06:57:20

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#62 2024-11-28 10:07:31

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#63 2024-11-28 13:09:30

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#64 2024-11-28 18:49:38

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#65 2024-11-29 16:08:42

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#66 2024-12-08 17:22:30

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#67 2024-12-08 21:54:09

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#68 2024-12-08 23:06:45

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#69 2024-12-09 07:19:04

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#70 2024-12-09 14:10:21

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#71 2024-12-09 14:15:57

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#72 2024-12-11 12:51:15

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#73 2024-12-13 18:26:12

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#74 2024-12-13 18:40:03

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

#75 2024-12-15 18:55:57

Re: [SOVLED] External HDD Power Issues / Disconnects

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