[Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-01 08:16:37

Hello, I'm running Arch Linux with KDE Plasma.
When I run

ping 192.168.100.1

I get the following:

PING 192.168.100.1 (192.168.100.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1.94 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=4.18 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=1.98 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=21.4 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=1.92 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=102 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=1.18 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=64 time=16.8 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=2.72 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=10 ttl=64 time=1.02 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=11 ttl=64 time=1.74 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=12 ttl=64 time=1.71 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=13 ttl=64 time=1.67 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=14 ttl=64 time=1.66 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=15 ttl=64 time=1.67 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=16 ttl=64 time=1.89 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=17 ttl=64 time=2.09 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=18 ttl=64 time=1.61 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=19 ttl=64 time=3.18 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=20 ttl=64 time=1.60 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=21 ttl=64 time=84.6 ms

There are a lot of ping spikes on LAN, which is weird.
I have tried:
- Turning off Powersaving mode in NetworkManager/iw
- Reinstalling the system, using the default NetworkManager configuration
The issue does not persist on Windows (No Dual-booting)

Relevant outputs:

find /etc/systemd -type l -exec test -f {} \; -print | awk -F'/' '{ printf ("%-40s | %s\n", $(NF-0), $(NF-1)) }' | sort -f

dbus-org.freedesktop.nm-dispatcher.service | system
dbus-org.freedesktop.timesync1.service   | system
deepcool-ak-series-digital-restart.service | suspend.target.wants
deepcool-ak-series-digital.service       | default.target.wants
display-manager.service                  | system
getty@tty1.service                       | getty.target.wants
iwd.service                              | multi-user.target.wants
NetworkManager.service                   | multi-user.target.wants
NetworkManager-wait-online.service       | network-online.target.wants
openrgb-resume.service                   | suspend.target.wants
openrgb.service                          | default.target.wants
p11-kit-server.socket                    | sockets.target.wants
pipewire-pulse.socket                    | sockets.target.wants
pipewire-session-manager.service         | user
pipewire.socket                          | sockets.target.wants
remote-fs.target                         | multi-user.target.wants
syncthing@nguyen.service                 | multi-user.target.wants
systemd-timesyncd.service                | sysinit.target.wants
systemd-userdbd.socket                   | sockets.target.wants
wireplumber.service                      | pipewire.service.wants
xdg-user-dirs-update.service             | default.target.wants

lspci -v

09:00.0 Network controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8852CE PCIe 802.11ax Wireless Network Controller (rev 01)
	Subsystem: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8852CE PCIe 802.11ax Wireless Network Controller
	Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 107, IOMMU group 20
	I/O ports at d000 [size=256]
	Memory at f6a00000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=1M]
	Capabilities: <access denied>
	Kernel driver in use: rtw89_8852ce
	Kernel modules: rtw89_8852ce

Last edited by TheSilverFoxes (2025-01-05 10:37:27)

seth · 2025-01-01 11:12:30

First off all, disable the iwd.service, see https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Networ … Fi_backend and then report back - because

using the default NetworkManager configuration

means right now wpa_supplicant and iwd will stumble over each other.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2025-01-01 11:20:01

I have that NIC; it works really well with just IWD and nothing else. NM is just a bunch of bugs waiting to happen.

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-01 11:39:40

seth wrote:

First off all, disable the iwd.service, see https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Networ … Fi_backend and then report back - because
using the default NetworkManager configuration
means right now wpa_supplicant and iwd will stumble over each other.

I did it, seems to have helped a bit but didn't solve the problem

ping 192.168.100.1

PING 192.168.100.1 (192.168.100.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=2.96 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=1.80 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=10.9 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=1.64 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=2.76 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=1.76 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=1.86 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=64 time=1.46 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=5.53 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=10 ttl=64 time=2.13 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=11 ttl=64 time=1.64 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=12 ttl=64 time=0.806 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=13 ttl=64 time=3.88 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=14 ttl=64 time=1.77 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=15 ttl=64 time=62.8 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=16 ttl=64 time=20.6 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=17 ttl=64 time=2.69 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.100.1: icmp_seq=18 ttl=64 time=20.7 ms

Last edited by TheSilverFoxes (2025-01-01 12:24:39)

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-01 11:41:24

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I have that NIC; it works really well with just IWD and nothing else. NM is just a bunch of bugs waiting to happen.

Thanks for the reply!
It's actually my Gigabyte B650 board
Also, if I only use iwd will there be any drawbacks (again, on KDE Plasma)
And if there isn't, how so?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2025-01-01 11:42:37

NM can be a useful convenience for things like proxies & VPNs but for simple wireless connections IWD does all you need with far less code.

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-01 11:47:56

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

NM can be a useful convenience for things like proxies & VPNs but for simple wireless connections IWD does all you need with far less code.

That's a dealbreaker for me since I use a lot of VPNs/proxies to bypass censorship.
I'm curious though, will I be able to change settings in KDE Settings with iwd since now NM is not the frontend?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2025-01-01 12:08:39

I don't think Plasma offers any integration with iwd/iwctl. I know GNOME doesn't.

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-01 13:15:05

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I don't think Plasma offers any integration with iwd/iwctl. I know GNOME doesn't.

Well that sucks, but any idea on how to make NM cooperate?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2025-01-01 13:27:57

Not really, sorry. I was wrong about my NIC (it's a BE) but try the rtw89* module options, that has some powersaving stuff that might be relevant.

I'm not in Linux atm so use the modinfo's -p option to list the module parameters.

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-01 15:40:11

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Not really, sorry. I was wrong about my NIC (it's a BE) but try the rtw89* module options, that has some powersaving stuff that might be relevant.
I'm not in Linux atm so use the modinfo's -p option to list the module parameters.

I don't know, since I have already disabled power saving (?)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2025-01-01 15:58:25

Module power management options are distinct from iwconfig's conception. I'm pretty sure NM's setting is just a frontend for that command, but I could be wrong. Check sysfs for the current module parameters.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2025-01-01 16:05:15)

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-01 16:04:54

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Not really, sorry. I was wrong about my NIC (it's a BE) but try the rtw89* module options, that has some powersaving stuff that might be relevant.
I'm not in Linux atm so use the modinfo's -p option to list the module parameters.

Running

modinfo rtw89_8852ce -p

shows no info (so no parameters?)
And also I have no idea how sysfs works, can you help me?

Last edited by TheSilverFoxes (2025-01-01 16:05:05)

seth · 2025-01-01 16:06:31

Please post your complete system journal for the boot:

sudo journalctl -b | curl -F 'file=@-' 0x0.st

after experiencing such spikes.
Also test adding

rtw89_pci.disable_aspm_l1=Y rtw89_pci.disable_aspm_l1ss=Y

and possibly

rtw89_pci.disable_clkreq=Y pcie_aspm=off

to the https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Kernel_parameters

Head_on_a_Stick · 2025-01-01 16:07:34

I think the options are for rtw89_pci, or maybe rtw89_core. Or both.

Check /sys/modules/rtw89* (or so, the drivers might be under another directory). I like to use https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/any/ranger/ to navigate sysfs because it shows the file values in the preview pane.

EDIT: thanks seth.

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-01 16:33:46

seth wrote:

Also test adding
rtw89_pci.disable_aspm_l1=Y rtw89_pci.disable_aspm_l1ss=Y
and possibly
rtw89_pci.disable_clkreq=Y pcie_aspm=off
to the https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Kernel_parameters

Here's the journal: https://0x0.st/8z8k.txt
The ping seems to spike after network usage?
This is with the parameters.

Last edited by TheSilverFoxes (2025-01-01 16:50:10)

seth · 2025-01-01 17:26:37

The journal is only 2 minutes, it already covers those latency spikes?
30s before you dumped the journal, iwd went roam-scanning, does that overlap w/ the latency spike?
Have you tried to disable syncthing to make sure this isn't just sideload driven?

There's no collision, no recorded connectio loss, no driver/firmware errors.

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-02 10:35:30

seth wrote:

30s before you dumped the journal, iwd went roam-scanning, does that overlap w/ the latency spike?
Have you tried to disable syncthing to make sure this isn't just sideload driven?
There's no collision, no recorded connection loss, no driver/firmware errors.

https://0x0.st/8zQ2.txt
New log here, taken a few moments after ping spike and yes, it does seem to overlap with the roam-scan
I will try to disable syncthing and report back
Also my wifi seems to disconnect and reconnect after a bit now for some reason.

EDIT:
I have noticed that the signal strength varies by a lot (in the KDE Tray menu), and when it does change it fluctuates the ping?
Also disabling Syncthing doesn't help

Last edited by TheSilverFoxes (2025-01-02 13:53:30)

seth · 2025-01-02 14:04:04

Jan 02 17:32:08 blackpc kernel: wlan0: associate with fc:57:03:f0:a9:ed (try 1/3)
Jan 02 17:32:08 blackpc kernel: wlan0: associate with fc:57:03:f0:a9:ed (try 2/3)
Jan 02 17:32:08 blackpc kernel: wlan0: associate with fc:57:03:f0:a9:ed (try 3/3)
Jan 02 17:32:08 blackpc kernel: wlan0: association with fc:57:03:f0:a9:ed timed out
…
Jan 02 17:32:12 blackpc kernel: wlan0: send auth to fc:57:03:f0:a9:ec (try 2/3)
Jan 02 17:32:12 blackpc kernel: wlan0: authenticated
Jan 02 17:32:12 blackpc kernel: wlan0: associate with fc:57:03:f0:a9:ec (try 1/3)
Jan 02 17:32:13 blackpc kernel: wlan0: RX AssocResp from fc:57:03:f0:a9:ec (capab=0x1431 status=0 aid=18)
Jan 02 17:32:13 blackpc kernel: wlan0: associated

Jan 02 17:31:27 blackpc iwd[676]: event: connect-info, ssid: Minh Khue, bss: fc:57:03:f0:a9:ed, signal: -46, load: 12/255
Jan 02 17:32:08 blackpc iwd[676]: event: connect-info, ssid: Minh Khue, bss: fc:57:03:f0:a9:ed, signal: -46, load: 27/255
Jan 02 17:32:12 blackpc iwd[676]: event: connect-info, ssid: Minh Khue, bss: fc:57:03:f0:a9:ec, signal: -35, load: 28/255

Signal looks good, though.
Still try to lock the BSSID, https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Networ … ts_(Wi-Fi) - there're at least two (possibly 2.4GHz and 5GHz?)

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-02 14:31:33

seth wrote:

Signal looks good, though.
Still try to lock the BSSID, https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Networ … ts_(Wi-Fi) - there're at least two (possibly 2.4GHz and 5GHz?)

Yes, they are advertised with the same name.

Jan 02 21:27:45 blackpc iwd[679]: event: connect-info, ssid: Minh Khue, bss: fc:57:03:f0:a9:ed, signal: -45, load: 23/255
Jan 02 21:27:45 blackpc iwd[679]: event: state, old: autoconnect_full, new: connecting (auto)
Jan 02 21:27:46 blackpc kernel: wlan0: authenticate with fc:57:03:f0:a9:ed (local address=bc:c7:46:a5:3f:eb)
Jan 02 21:27:46 blackpc kernel: wlan0: send auth to fc:57:03:f0:a9:ed (try 1/3)
Jan 02 21:27:46 blackpc NetworkManager[622]: <info>  [1735828066.1393] device (wlan0): new IWD device state is connecting
Jan 02 21:27:46 blackpc NetworkManager[622]: <info>  [1735828066.1399] device (wlan0): Activation: starting connection 'Minh Khue' (77d5b6cf-ca05-421a-9c86-844bd22df392)
Jan 02 21:27:46 blackpc NetworkManager[622]: <info>  [1735828066.1399] device (wlan0): state change: disconnected -> prepare (reason 'none', managed-type: 'full')
Jan 02 21:27:46 blackpc NetworkManager[622]: <info>  [1735828066.1400] manager: NetworkManager state is now CONNECTING
Jan 02 21:27:46 blackpc NetworkManager[622]: <info>  [1735828066.1401] device (wlan0): state change: prepare -> config (reason 'none', managed-type: 'full')
Jan 02 21:27:46 blackpc kded6[1193]: org.kde.plasma.nm.kded: Unhandled active connection state change:  1

Also this keeps happening, any ideas? Cheers.
Full log of what's happening: http://0x0.st/8zf1.txt

seth · 2025-01-02 14:45:38

Disable roaming, it's the most likely cause. The signal quality seems similar.
5GHz will keep you away from buetooth and microwaves, but 2.4GHz has a wider range (at overall weaker signal) so if you typically stay very close to the AP, lock into the 5GHz connection.

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-02 14:57:50

seth wrote:

Disable roaming, it's the most likely cause. The signal quality seems similar.
5GHz will keep you away from bluetooth and microwaves, but 2.4GHz has a wider range (at overall weaker signal) so if you typically stay very close to the AP, lock into the 5GHz connection.

1. How do I turn off roaming?
2. In the BSSID tab there is only the 2.4 Ghz connection.
Also how do I "reset" the configuration of iwd and NM? It is very buggy right now.

I have tried using main.conf to block roaming but it still roams

Last edited by TheSilverFoxes (2025-01-02 16:25:35)

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-03 10:49:26

/etc/iwd/main.conf

DisablePeriodicScan=true

Still didn't prevent iwd from roaming.

Also using

[General]
RoamThreshold=-75
RoamThreshold5G=-80

didn't help

EDIT: Switching back to wpa_supplicant also didn’t help.
When using this appears when the ping spikes:

an 03 21:39:44 blackpc wpa_supplicant[668]: wlan0: WNM: Preferred List Available

Last edited by TheSilverFoxes (2025-01-03 14:40:17)

seth · 2025-01-03 15:04:34

1. How do I turn off roaming?
2. In the BSSID tab there is only the 2.4 Ghz connection.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Networ … ts_(Wi-Fi)
Do not connect to 'Minh Khue' but to "fc:57:03:f0:a9:ec" specifically (assuming that's your 2.4GHz connection)
NM controls iwd, your iwd config should™ be irrelevant at this point.

TheSilverFoxes · 2025-01-03 16:08:08

Irrelevant point here, but I reinstalled Windows to sanity check myself (it worked perfectly)
But now I cannot install Arch Linux with archinstall anymore?
Using iwctl to connect to the AP was fine (albeit buggy) but when I try to do archinstall it is stuck on “Checking version”.
And when I use the —skip-version-check flag it would just freeze at the Mirror region setting
Thank you seth for helping, but this is extremely confusing to me right now

Last edited by TheSilverFoxes (2025-01-03 16:30:17)

Arch Linux

#1 2025-01-01 08:16:37

[Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#2 2025-01-01 11:12:30

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#3 2025-01-01 11:20:01

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#4 2025-01-01 11:39:40

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#5 2025-01-01 11:41:24

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#6 2025-01-01 11:42:37

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#7 2025-01-01 11:47:56

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#8 2025-01-01 12:08:39

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#9 2025-01-01 13:15:05

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#10 2025-01-01 13:27:57

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#11 2025-01-01 15:40:11

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#12 2025-01-01 15:58:25

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#13 2025-01-01 16:04:54

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#14 2025-01-01 16:06:31

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#15 2025-01-01 16:07:34

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#16 2025-01-01 16:33:46

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#17 2025-01-01 17:26:37

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#18 2025-01-02 10:35:30

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#19 2025-01-02 14:04:04

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#20 2025-01-02 14:31:33

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#21 2025-01-02 14:45:38

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#22 2025-01-02 14:57:50

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#23 2025-01-03 10:49:26

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#24 2025-01-03 15:04:34

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

#25 2025-01-03 16:08:08

Re: [Resolves] High ping spikes with NetworkManager + iwd on wifi

Board footer