Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

seth · 2025-05-09 13:05:19

That's what I'm trying to fix since I have that issue and it looks ugly...

As mentioned, just change the cell format - there's a line edit where you can customize it, just put the normal ¥en character there.

The main difference I can think of is GPU but that's an odd isuse to have?

Does nvidia also perform worse on X11 or does it just amplify the problem more on wayland?
You could test nouveau or maybe even a nested wayland server on X11 (you can just run weston there and LO inside) to determine that.

unsignedzero · 2025-05-10 21:30:03

seth wrote:

That's what I'm trying to fix since I have that issue and it looks ugly...
As mentioned, just change the cell format - there's a line edit where you can customize it, just put the normal ¥en character there.

Ahh I didn't know you can edit and have your own Format Code at the bottom. I see what you mean now when I output that for the two variants that it doesn't really the shorter point code. Do you know if there's a way to add in thus "custom" user format into it or is that something deeper I have to add into LO itself?

That looks to be the fix so it is working correctly for me now.

seth wrote:

The main difference I can think of is GPU but that's an odd isuse to have?
Does nvidia also perform worse on X11 or does it just amplify the problem more on wayland?
You could test nouveau or maybe even a nested wayland server on X11 (you can just run weston there and LO inside) to determine that.

Both have the same problem as mentioned before. X11 is better in terms of performance with same fonts loaded.

So I assume I install Weston then run the command. In that new window start LO?

Last edited by unsignedzero (2025-05-10 21:40:35)

seth · 2025-05-10 21:49:06

Do you know if there's a way to add in thus "custom" user format into it or is that something deeper I have to add into LO itself?

seth wrote:

I haven't used LO in ages

but it just picked up the edit as new format (at least for the document)

So I assume I install Weston then run the command. In that new window start LO?

That would be the plan to separate LO from nvidia w/o switching to nouveau, yes.

unsignedzero · 2025-05-11 05:44:13

seth wrote:

So I assume I install Weston then run the command. In that new window start LO?
That would be the plan to separate LO from nvidia w/o switching to nouveau, yes.

The error still occurs on both writer and calc. Both seem to run a bit faster but I still get lag spikes when selecting the character on writer and scrolling across them in calc like before. The only difference I can say is that the lag is shorter but still there. Faster than the native KDE/Wayland but slower than KDE/X.

Last edited by unsignedzero (2025-05-11 05:50:15)

seth · 2025-05-11 12:32:11

Then it's proably not nvidia - except if the lag is gone w/ nouveau.

maybe having MANY fonts is more of a problem then the specific font families?

fc-list | wc -l

unsignedzero · 2025-05-11 21:05:29

seth wrote:

Then it's proably not nvidia - except if the lag is gone w/ nouveau.
maybe having MANY fonts is more of a problem then the specific font families?
fc-list | wc -l

2840.

Back to my point, I have 3 boxes with similar numbers. Why would one have it over another? This sounds like an LO edge case? Also removing all Japanese fonts seems to fix that bad yen symbol itself.

Last edited by unsignedzero (2025-05-11 21:06:01)

seth · 2025-05-11 21:37:37

2840

w/ or w/o the cjk fonts? how much do they contribute?

with similar numbers

* font counts?
* filesystems?
* disk speed?
* (free) RAM?
=> test nouveau, though the implication that LO would wipe the glyph cache before every rendering would be extra-stupid (because of the entire concept of what a cache is supposed to do…)

Are the fonts on the other systems also *.ttc ?

Also removing all Japanese fonts seems to fix that bad yen symbol itself.

The different source fonts will now end in the same font resolving the glyph.

fc-list :charset=ffe5

unsignedzero · 2025-05-11 22:09:35

seth wrote:

2840
w/ or w/o the cjk fonts? how much do they contribute?

That's kind of crazy.
I have these fonts installed on and off from testing and without them I'm at 1087 [Delta 1753]. I didn't realize a few lines would add that much fonts:

main() {
  FLAG="${1:--R}"
  pacman --noconfirm $FLAG noto-fonts-{cjk,extra}
  pacman --noconfirm $FLAG adobe-source-han-{sans,serif}-{cn,jp,kr,tw,otc}-fonts
  pacman --noconfirm $FLAG opendesktop-fonts
  pacman --noconfirm $FLAG ttf-arphic-{ukai,uming}
}

seth wrote:

with similar numbers
* font counts?
* filesystems?
* disk speed?
* (free) RAM?
=> test nouveau, though the implication that LO would wipe the glyph cache before every rendering would be extra-stupid (because of the entire concept of what a cache is supposed to do…)

All boxes are built out of the same setup script sans GPU or other usages like gaming via steam and program updates. The box I'm on (KDE/Wayland 9900X, 64GB memory) is the beefiest, largest and newest, by a notable margin as the other is a mini (KDE/Wayland 7945HS, 64GB memory) and an ultrabook (Cinnamon/X intel 11th series, 32GB) and neither one has issues there. All are Hynix m.2 of different sizes and same zfs file system. They even use the same lts kernal, arguably a bit desynced if I update one box one day and do another another day. Memory would be a concern if I run a lot of VMs but I haven't when opening the files.

The mini is 3087 fonts with but same delta when I remove them. I can check the laptop tomorrow.

For installing noveau, I would have to do it via CLI to drop I assume the nvidia driver I use and then install that over it and reboot?

seth wrote:

Are the fonts on the other systems also *.ttc ?

All fonts are installed the same way, just rerun the script and updated for a few new non CJK fonts I've installed. I don't install fonts externally if that's what you're alluding to. This is the newest box so there could be orphaned font files from older programs if that's what you're alluding to but that would apply on the laptop and the mini moreso than here, which would likely explain the +200 font between the mini and the desktop.

seth wrote:

Also removing all Japanese fonts seems to fix that bad yen symbol itself.
The different source fonts will now end in the same font resolving the glyph.
fc-list :charset=ffe5

Makes sense but odd to see LO just use the other yen symbol as you mentioned.

Here is what I have now.

/usr/share/fonts/TTF/verdanab.ttf: Verdana:style=Bold,Negreta,tučné,fed,Fett,Έντονα,Negrita,Lihavoitu,Gras,Félkövér,Grassetto,Vet,Halvfet,Pogrubiony,Negrito,Полужирный,Fet,Kalın,Krepko,Lodia
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/verdana.ttf: Verdana:style=Regular,Normal,obyčejné,Standard,Κανονικά,Normaali,Normál,Normale,Standaard,Normalny,Обычный,Normálne,Navadno,Arrunta
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/odokai.ttf: AR PL New Kai,文鼎ＰＬ新中楷:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/odosung.ttc: AR PL New Sung Mono,文鼎ＰＬ新宋 Mono:style=Reguler,Regular
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/odosung.ttc: AR PL New Sung,文鼎ＰＬ新宋:style=Reguler,Regular
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/verdanaz.ttf: Verdana:style=Bold Italic,Negreta cursiva,tučné kurzíva,fed kursiv,Fett Kursiv,Έντονα Πλάγια,Negrita Cursiva,Lihavoitu Kursivoi,Gras Italique,Félkövér dőlt,Grassetto Corsivo,Vet Cursief,Halvfet Kursiv,Pogrubiona kursywa,Negrito Itálico,Полужирный Ку
 сив,Tučná kurzíva,Fet Kursiv,Kalın İtalik,Krepko poševno,Lodi etzana
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/verdanai.ttf: Verdana:style=Italic,Cursiva,kurzíva,kursiv,Πλάγια,Kursivoitu,Italique,Dőlt,Corsivo,Cursief,Kursywa,Itálico,Курсив,İtalik,Poševno,Etzana

Last edited by unsignedzero (2025-05-11 22:38:19)

seth · 2025-05-12 05:50:44

For installing noveau, I would have to do it via CLI to drop I assume the nvidia driver I use and then install that over it and reboot?

You only have to remove the nvidia packages, make sure the module and nouveau blacklisting config don't remain in the initramfs (ie. make sure that being recreated after the removal) and reboot.

You still have opendesktop-fonts installed?

unsignedzero · 2025-05-12 08:27:06

seth wrote:

For installing noveau, I would have to do it via CLI to drop I assume the nvidia driver I use and then install that over it and reboot?
You only have to remove the nvidia packages, make sure the module and nouveau blacklisting config don't remain in the initramfs (ie. make sure that being recreated after the removal) and reboot.

I use nvidia-dkms due to zfs. So just to confirm before I do it, I remove that, update `/etc/mkinitcpio.conf`to have no references of nvidia, then install noveau and then reboot it? Do I need to add modules or is that fine?

seth wrote:

You still have opendesktop-fonts installed?

Thanks for the catch. I'll do that now.

seth · 2025-05-12 13:50:11

You'll first have to https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dynami … ve_modules
nouveau is part of the kernel, if it's not blacklisted (the nvidia-utils package does that) it will be loaded automatically.

Thanks for the catch. I'll do that now.

It was merely a heads-up since that is either the always resolved font or doesn't seem to get in the way of resolving verdana

unsignedzero · 2025-05-12 20:46:25

seth wrote:

You'll first have to https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dynami … ve_modules
nouveau is part of the kernel, if it's not blacklisted (the nvidia-utils package does that) it will be loaded automatically.

I'll look into that later today. I assume for safety, I'd want to do this on a console boot or does that even matter if you rip it off since all the changes are in initramfs you said?

seth wrote:

Thanks for the catch. I'll do that now.
It was merely a heads-up since that is either the always resolved font or doesn't seem to get in the way of resolving verdana

My laptop results I think are inconclusive. I've loaded the test of the adobe-source-hans since I added them since i added them from this post and didn't see a notable slowdown. There is a small one before the install but it doesn't seem to increase. I didn't have opendesktop-fonts installed and it is a small maybe 100ms worse? I can't say if it's just bias of me loading fonts so I'll try more. Is there a way to get a list of how many fonts you will install from the package BEFORE installing versus just install and fc-list...?

Related is there a way to see all font packages installed? I might as well remove the orphaned ones but not sure if that will change much...

Last edited by unsignedzero (2025-05-12 20:46:59)

seth · 2025-05-12 22:11:14

I assume for safety, I'd want to do this on a console boot or does that even matter if you rip it off since all the changes are in initramfs you said?

The kernel module and optioanlly X11 driver are in memory, you'll run into problems when starting new clients that want to use nvidias GL library, but the plan would be to reboot after the removal anyway, right?

Is there a way to get a list of how many fonts you will install from the package BEFORE installing versus just install and fc-list...?

Not really, since fonts aren't strictly mapped to file (because of the ttc/otc containers) but https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/an … nts-extra/ is gonna add a lot…

Related is there a way to see all font packages installed?

pacman -Qo /usr/share/fonts

will list all packages that put stuff into /usr/share/fonts

unsignedzero · 2025-05-13 07:49:04

seth wrote:

I assume for safety, I'd want to do this on a console boot or does that even matter if you rip it off since all the changes are in initramfs you said?
The kernel module and optioanlly X11 driver are in memory, you'll run into problems when starting new clients that want to use nvidias GL library, but the plan would be to reboot after the removal anyway, right?

Well I say that since I upgrade nvidia while on KDE and that froze the UI and stopped the upgrade why I ask about it. Yeah I usually reset but that assume you have a successful upgrade. It sounds like I need to remove nvidia-* so I'll do that then.

seth wrote:

Is there a way to get a list of how many fonts you will install from the package BEFORE installing versus just install and fc-list...?
Not really, since fonts aren't strictly mapped to file (because of the ttc/otc containers) but https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/an … nts-extra/ is gonna add a lot…

I've never looked into fonts much until now so that's good to know.

seth wrote:

Related is there a way to see all font packages installed?
pacman -Qo /usr/share/fonts
will list all packages that put stuff into /usr/share/fonts

The non CJK noto fonts add a lot so that's good to know.

Sounds like there's no tool to list each font installed with how many fonts from wc -l?

I've been updating my box (pacman -Syu) every so often but I assume that shouldn't impact what we're doing?

Last edited by unsignedzero (2025-05-13 07:51:13)

seth · 2025-05-13 11:08:04

I need to remove nvidia-* so I'll do that then.

You don't need to remove anything manually - uninstall the dkms modules and then remove the nvidia packages and then reboot.

Sounds like there's no tool to list each font installed with how many fonts from wc -l?

Only for fonts in /usr/share/fonts:

(for name in $(pacman -Qoq /usr/share/fonts); do printf "$name "; pacman -Ql $name | grep -Ec '/usr/share/fonts/.*\..*'; done) | column -t

You can also check -Qo for every file listed in fc-list and count the package matches, but that's super slow by comparism.

unsignedzero · 2025-05-17 02:17:51

seth wrote:

I need to remove nvidia-* so I'll do that then.
You don't need to remove anything manually - uninstall the dkms modules and then remove the nvidia packages and then reboot.

Thank goodness I read the nouveau docs since I didn't realize you had to remove `nomodeset` on the parameters on boot.

Anyway, I see no issues when doing that. However I had a typo and never installed `noto-fonts`-extra which gave me about 1500 more fonts. That slowed down LO initially but I've had no other issues there.

One other weird twist, I've only installed a limited amount of fonts, just `adobe-source-han-{sans,serif}-{cn,jp,kr,tw,otc}-fonts`, and I don't see the issue at all when loading the nvidia drivers. I don't know if `noto-fonts-extra` OR `opendesktop-fonts` are the problematic ones but it is now fine with the test files I shared you earlier, no hiccups. Not sure if the reinstall on the nvidia driver fixed? the problem?

I guess it sounds like one of the fonts is causing issues and is only impacting Nvidia drivers?

FYI I won't have access to the machine for a week or two so I can't do more testing after this message.

seth · 2025-05-17 05:09:25

Why do you have "nomodeset" anywhere???!!
Please post your complete system journal for the boot:

sudo journalctl -b | curl -F 'file=@-' 0x0.st

Please post your Xorg log, https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xorg#General

I don't know if `noto-fonts-extra` OR `opendesktop-fonts` are the problematic ones but

You could just try to install one or the other and see whether the problem manifests again.

Arch Linux

#26 2025-05-09 13:05:19

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#27 2025-05-10 21:30:03

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#28 2025-05-10 21:49:06

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#29 2025-05-11 05:44:13

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#30 2025-05-11 12:32:11

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#31 2025-05-11 21:05:29

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#32 2025-05-11 21:37:37

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#33 2025-05-11 22:09:35

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#34 2025-05-12 05:50:44

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#35 2025-05-12 08:27:06

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#36 2025-05-12 13:50:11

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#37 2025-05-12 20:46:25

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#38 2025-05-12 22:11:14

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#39 2025-05-13 07:49:04

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#40 2025-05-13 11:08:04

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#41 2025-05-17 02:17:51

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

#42 2025-05-17 05:09:25

Re: Very slow UI when seeing Japanse fonts on LibreOffice Again

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