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#26 2025-06-14 04:51:44

zquestz
Member
Registered: 2017-01-06
Posts: 3

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

I have zero plans to move to Wayland unless I absolutely have to. My environment is stable and works perfectly with X11.

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#27 2025-06-14 05:16:14

SimonJ
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From: Alicante, Spain
Registered: 2021-05-11
Posts: 229
Website

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

I am the same, I see no reason to move unless something prompts it, I "play" with Cosmic desktop which uses Wayland, but home is XFCE4 and X11.


Rlu: 222126

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#28 2025-06-14 06:10:37

void03
Member
Registered: 2019-06-09
Posts: 4

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

Nope.

dwm forever.

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#29 2025-06-14 07:23:34

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 65,031

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

dwm forever

That's essentially what's wrong with "wayland" - you buy display server, compositor and WM all in one.
Often one process (because jamming the input-heavy WM, the output-heavy compositor and the display server as de-facto - though not mandatory for either wayland or X11 - client lifeline into a single process enhances robustness by concentrating all fragile elements roll)

"This compositor is super-fancy, but that display server allows me to take screenshots/obs/RDC and both suck as window managers."
Pick your poison.
Oh, also wayland client foo only works w/ wayland server bar but that's not compatible with snafu, so I have to switch between sessions, but copy & paste now works. Most of the time.

Wayland was promised as to drop all the X11 baggage from yesteryear (cause you're not seeing the core protocol - every modern X11 desktop runs only on the extensions) and fix the rendering shortcomings inherited from a network protocol completely unaware of the local display.
But we got is a dozen "we only support core gnome applications" vanity projects, because if the linux desktop desperately needs one thing, it's more fragmentation.

Adding vblank control (the modesetting driver in xorg-git has a "tearfree" options since years, but there's no release…) and force-syncing XPutImage (cause that's how most clients render these days…) would have kept the baggage, but given most people what they want (and yes, there's the roundtrip overhead, but also xcb and 8-16 cores and wayland or picom drain my battery faster than uncomposited X11, cause the IGP/GPU needs power, too)

/rant

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#30 2025-06-16 18:09:17

guiodic
Member
Registered: 2018-02-22
Posts: 42

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

author seems to be a bit … complicated.

This is totally irrelevant.

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#31 2025-06-19 15:25:35

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 65,031

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

It unfortunately is if the individual shows a constant pattern of coming up w/ a "truth" and then squeezing reality through a convenient filter to make it fit.
What do you suppose discussing patches with such individual will look like?

If it turns out that his selective approach of reality is limited to cytology and whether Hitler was actually forced into WW2 (yes, we're talking *that* level of deranged) but he's actually super-level-headed w/ X11 development and the many previously rejected patches were not actually because of ignorance of lateral damages (I don't want to use X11 when it's basically developed like gnome) but a sinister RedHat plot: fine. Not exactly great, but not inherently fatal.
But in reality, people stick to their skin and this project is then likely to run against a wall because of that character flaw.

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#32 2025-06-20 12:55:45

JoeCool
Member
Registered: 2019-08-12
Posts: 18

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

If Wayland gets functional automation (password autotype, SELECTION and CLIPBOARD funtionality), SSH "X11" forwarding, Multiseat (two gamers on one laptop with two mice and keyboards), stops crashing all the time taking all of my open applications with it, xrdp support to remote into the running session from a windows box without extra software, KiCAD working properly, xfreerdp remoteapps working properly, proper tearfree and adaptive sync without lag.

The I'll consider it, if there are any upsides. So far every time I tried it something didn't work right, and the stuff that worked was slower or more cumbersome than before.
I don't care if my trusted software can access all of my windows. Software I don't trust goes into firejail. I want a usable desktop.

EDIT: wayland only stuff runs fine inside cage

Last edited by JoeCool (2025-06-20 12:58:10)

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#33 2025-06-21 00:18:45

Succulent of your garden
Member
Registered: 2024-02-29
Posts: 294

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

seth wrote:

or the point to convince everyone that the windows design approach is actually better. Which it arguably is - depending on "for whom".

I'm also a happy dwm as sekret user, and to be honest I think you can create a very comfy and professional window manager that can be equally better than any wayland based setup. TBH for those who have inclinations over aesthetics instead of  functionality I believe that the main issue for X11 users is to find a good picom fork, which there are, but many are without maintenance.  The original picom [Yeah, i know that picom is a fork of something else before] does have some animations, which seems very fine, I use it and most of the time works well, but there are part of the experimental features.

I think for example wayland window managers like Hyprland does integrate the animations part more easily, and also the customization of keybindings is more friendly for those who don't know how to understand a few lines of C code at least, which is the case of dwm only, I haven't tried other WM like Xmonad or I3, and I also try to prefer functionality over aesthetics in my ricing, which is just a personal option.

But the core idea of what I'm trying to say, is that I think the main issue is that wayland based window managers have more friendly options for setting animations in your setup, which in the case of others window managers like dwm is more hard to setup and have less alternatives that are currently maintained. And that's the main reason of why I tried to have a focus on functional window manager instead of nicely graphics design, because in the end I want to have a functional computer to do my stuff. Most of the animations are superficial and does not bring nothing more that I want in mainstream picom.

So long story short for WM only:

Wayland experience: Nice looking and more friendly to setup, oh the backend dies again.
Xorg experience: Not so easily to setup a nice looking environment, but you can if you have time, and backend is healthy most of the time.

So nice to see seth respond to the X11 issue of the month, I was a little worried at first of what will happen.

BTW don't get me wrong, I don't hate wayland, I just think is not ready yet for many cases. But I believe that the general dropping of Xorg from many distros and projects, is not a good idea. So nice to have Arch big_smile

EDIT: There is a new tendency which is the scroller window manager, which I believe is only available in wayland based WM. I think that is the perfect example of what I'm trying to say. I don't need that, because I can use my keybindings and highlight windows of my WM to full screen and then get back again to the current window stack with just two keybindings. Until now, I don't see any benefit of using a scroller WM instead of having all organized into different workspace. But hey the scroller one looks nice, that's true, but probably if I use that I will be less efficient. So that's the core issue of any Linux Ricer: Do I want a nice looking setup, or I just want a environment so I can be more efficient ? I think you can choose whatever you want or both, but please try to be honest with yourself when you are writing about it. That's all.

Last edited by Succulent of your garden (2025-06-21 12:21:22)

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#34 2025-06-21 08:44:41

Mr Green
Forum Fellow
From: U.K.
Registered: 2003-12-21
Posts: 5,926
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Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

Was a very happy i3 users for many years....read all about Wayland and at the time it was not that stable very much WIP. However been using Sway for some time now and not had any issues. There is a learning curve but is that not the point of Linux...

Both KDE and Gnome are switching sides, Xfce4 is almost there and the rest well who knows.

Anyway I got fed up watching the HyprLand fan boys on youtube so wanted to see what fuss was about ;-)


Mr Green

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#35 2025-06-21 19:02:32

faetter
Member
Registered: 2019-09-21
Posts: 26

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

No plans to switch at all, last time I tried too many things were still broken. I was glad to see KDE announcing support for x11 in plasma 7: https://linuxiac.com/kde-x11-support-to … -plasma-7/


None are more enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free

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#36 2025-06-21 19:14:01

BS86
Member
Registered: 2022-11-03
Posts: 88

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

faetter wrote:

I was glad to see KDE announcing support for x11 in plasma 7: https://linuxiac.com/kde-x11-support-to … -plasma-7/

You understand that wrong. They announced that Plasma 7 will NOT have x11 support. They intend to support it UNTIL Plasma 7, not WITH Plasma 7. And they also said that X11 will be in maintenance mode, meaning it will still work but all new features and improvements will go into Plasma wayland first.

And they are rather late with that. Gnome is already dropping x11 with Gnome 49 which will be in Alpha state next week and will release in September.

Last edited by BS86 (2025-06-21 19:22:09)

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#37 2025-06-21 19:57:03

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 65,031

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

And they are rather late with that. Gnome is already…

If these knuckleheads manage to turn that into a race, it'll become a race to the bottom.
It's not like X11 somehow stops working on a Y2k26 bug and everyone who's not made it to wayland by then will have to migrate to windows or whatever.

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#38 2025-06-21 20:58:53

tekstryder
Member
Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 336

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

The panic over this is so absurd.

If you're that attached to the X11 session, you can happily run on that right into the 2030s and likely beyond.

Debian Trixie ELTS will be rock solid, stable AF X11 session support til the year ~2035.

seth wrote:

turn that into a race

Slowest race evah. Makes me feel fast. [spoken as a mountain runner who's halfway through the 2025 USATF-NE Mountain running circuit currently smile]

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#39 2025-06-21 21:29:29

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 65,031

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

Well, I meant a competition of sorts because of the "kde is late, gnome already has…" rhetoric - as if it was a race.

I however didn't pick up a sense of panic ITT? And as you mentioned: there'd be absolutely no reason for that.
Well, for now - trust lennart to find a way to depend systemd on wayland…

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#40 2025-06-21 21:48:51

tekstryder
Member
Registered: 2013-02-14
Posts: 336

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

Gotcha. I'm referring to the recent slew of panic on da Interwebz being absurdly alarmist regarding the eventual removal of a dedicated X11 session from Gnome/KDE.

a) Xwayland will live indefinitely
b) XFCE or any number of alternatives

These options may extend till the approximate end of my lifetime, after which I'll likely become less concerned with the general trends of display servers and window compositors.

EDIT: Oh, and to answer the OP / thread topic... YES.

Last edited by tekstryder (2025-06-21 21:56:12)

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#41 2025-06-21 22:02:38

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 65,031

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

"Welcome to hell, here's your copy of Windows" lol

Iff one is using gnome and ones system/workflow/toolstack doesn't quite work w/ gnome/wayland, it's not unjustified to become a tiny bit panicked, now.
But this increasingly hypothetical one then clearly also hasn't paid too much attention over the past decade
I do remember when gnome jumped the shark and slightly prematurely - and silently - defaulted to wayland sessions and this forum was flooded with "since gnome update foobar no longer works" threads.

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#42 2025-06-22 00:39:43

faetter
Member
Registered: 2019-09-21
Posts: 26

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

BS86 wrote:
faetter wrote:

I was glad to see KDE announcing support for x11 in plasma 7: https://linuxiac.com/kde-x11-support-to … -plasma-7/

You understand that wrong. They announced that Plasma 7 will NOT have x11 support. They intend to support it UNTIL Plasma 7, not WITH Plasma 7. And they also said that X11 will be in maintenance mode, meaning it will still work but all new features and improvements will go into Plasma wayland first.

No need for the abrasiveness! It's ambiguously phrased in the original email as 'until' can also mean inclusive unless otherwise specified. If I say you have until Monday to reply to this post, do you expect the deadline to be Monday at 00:00?

Anyway, his blog post a few days later (https://blog.vladzahorodnii.com/2025/03 … and-split/) makes it clearer:

There are no plans to drop KWin/X11 in the Plasma 6 lifecycle, although it’s highly possible that it will happen in Plasma 7.

As for x11 being on maintenance mode only - yes, I'm aware and I'm perfectly happy with that. I'm more concerned about having a functional system than getting new features I don't yet need or care about.


None are more enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free

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#43 2025-06-22 05:31:21

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 65,031

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

You might want to look for a functional system besides plasma, though.

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#44 2025-06-22 05:44:09

BookmarkManager
Member
Registered: 2021-02-22
Posts: 3

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

Answering the thread question:
I don't have any plans to move to Wayland until it becomes a better experience for my use cases than X11. Right now my two biggest annoyances are that it doesn't have window shading and sharing screens over Discord requires several extra steps. I've heard horror stories from other people using drawing tablets but I haven't tested it myself yet. I expect the only thing that will make those issues worth putting up with is when KDE 7 comes out and there's no choice anymore.
The only thing that might get me to switch early is if it fixes a sharable window detection bug for me in Discord.

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#45 2025-06-22 13:21:16

Succulent of your garden
Member
Registered: 2024-02-29
Posts: 294

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

If I'm not wrong there are many front end alternatives to discord. Have you ever tried with one of those BookmarkManager ?

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#46 2025-06-22 22:31:54

gxt25
Member
Registered: 2017-07-05
Posts: 69

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

seth wrote:

trust lennart to find a way to depend systemd on wayland…

Don't give him any ideas...


a man a plan a canal panama

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#47 2025-06-23 02:16:59

faetter
Member
Registered: 2019-09-21
Posts: 26

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

faetter wrote:

Anyway, his blog post a few days later (https://blog.vladzahorodnii.com/2025/03 … and-split/) makes it clearer:

There are no plans to drop KWin/X11 in the Plasma 6 lifecycle, although it’s highly possible that it will happen in Plasma 7.

As for x11 being on maintenance mode only - yes, I'm aware and I'm perfectly happy with that. I'm more concerned about having a functional system than getting new features I don't yet need or care about.

Still on this topic, one of the key KDE devs posted some thoughts on the x11 -> wayland transition yesterday (https://pointieststick.com/2025/06/21/a … 1-session/):

As for when Plasma will drop support for X11? There’s currently no firm timeline for this, and I certainly don’t expect it to happen in the next year, or even the next two years. But that’s just a guess; it depends on how quickly we implement everything on https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Waylan … ant_Issues. Our plan is to handle everything on that page such that even the most hardcore X11 user doesn’t notice anything missing when they move to Wayland.


None are more enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free

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#48 2025-06-24 15:18:02

JoeCool
Member
Registered: 2019-08-12
Posts: 18

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

faetter wrote:

Our plan is to handle everything on that page such that even the most hardcore X11 user doesn’t notice anything missing when they move to Wayland.

That sounds pretty good, Nate is a good guy. I just hope he's not too optimistic. If he thinks it can be done I won't worry for now either and try the Wayland session every once in a while.

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#49 2025-06-26 22:17:58

ratmarrow
Member
Registered: 2025-06-22
Posts: 1

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

I have no real plans to move to Wayland until there is a compositor out there that gives me the option to have my cursor work as it does currently in X11.

Forced desktop latency for the sake of "the perfect frame" is hogwash.


The sun burned them, but they swam on its surface.

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#50 2025-06-26 22:29:42

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 65,031

Re: For those using Xorg, do you have plans to move to Wayland?

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