Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

seth · 2025-10-31 23:24:13

Judging from previous threads, KDE on a Haswell chip (pre-iris) but didn't see and wayland/problems specific threads.

Tiikerihai · 2025-11-01 09:03:35

I wonder what the OP is even on about. I have a system running Arch with a GTX 980 on wayland and it's perfectly fine, the proprietary drivers for 9xx series of nvidia cards are just the non-open version of the current kernel modules.
Well, it's as fine as nvidia on Linux ever is with its bad performance and abundant bugs. Point being that I have same bugs on a GSP card using the open kernel modules, a RTX 3060 Ti.

seth · 2025-11-01 09:07:33

The problems w/ wayland are typically not related to any GPU support and nothing of this has anything to do w/ nvidia and nvidia-open (nb. that later versions of the proprietary module default to GSP as well, see the wiki)

Tiikerihai · 2025-11-01 09:25:40

Well, I can at least assure you the GTX 980 isn't using GSP - that card doesn't have the hardware, I think it was added with 2xxx series of cards. That's why you gotta use the closed source modules in the first place, I'd never bother with those otherwise. Makes that card suck to use on pretty much any distro that isn't Arch.

gxt25 · 2025-11-01 14:00:49

Use a TV for monitor via HDMI. Turn it off while keeping the computer running. Come back a day later and turn the TV on. Jiggle the mouse. X: screen comes back to life. Wayland: no input detected. Have to unplug HDMI and plug it back in to bring screen back to life.

seth · 2025-11-01 14:27:19

That'd be compositor specific - maybe even related to some overzealous output management daemon.
And HDMI/HDCP.
The TV will unregister, some daemon (or even the wayland compositor) might notice that and remove/deactivate it and either "forget" to re-add it or fumble the handshake (which is entirely HDMIs fault for being a vandalized protocol)

These problems actually have existed and exist w/ X11 and even windows because it's down to a race condition.

The point where this touches the fundamental problem w/ "wayland" is "That'd be compositor specific" because now every compositor has to NIH address/solve this…

gxt25 · 2025-11-01 14:30:26

You really oughta be charging for this level of support Seth ;-)

seth · 2025-11-01 14:33:26

https://archlinux.org/donate/ - knock youself out.

Personally I'm just happy I can rant about HDMI being vandalized into uselessness by Hollywood.

gxt25 · 2025-11-01 14:53:22

Not familiar with that backstory but I think I'll look it up now

mpan · 2025-11-01 15:44:55

Scimmia wrote:

zpg443 wrote:
I try every few months to launch Wayland
Impressive, considering it's impossible to launch Wayland. This seems to be a common theme among those against Wayland, they don't understand anything about it.

Xorg should just expose Wayland and drop X11. That would either satisfy all or make dissatisfaction equally distributed across projects. /s

Last edited by mpan (2025-11-01 15:45:47)

Succulent of your garden · 2025-11-01 15:54:19

mpan wrote:

Xorg should just expose Wayland and drop X11. That would either satisfy all or make dissatisfaction equally distributed across projects. /s

Back then I watched a Linus Torvalds interview where he said that he created the Linux Kernel because he believed for him it wasn't going to be a hard an difficult thing to do it. He said that in some way that naive view plus the high will to make the kernel happen made the kernel happened.

I hope some day a very talented developer can do that thing again but for a display server. Some kind of "Jesus" dev that made the merge of features from Xorg and Wayland possible and were able to drive the attention of many good devs to the project

xerxes_ · 2025-11-01 21:18:32

zpg443 wrote:

Xorg is stable. Wayland is not.

From my experience I would say quite the opposite: Xorg sometimes crashes for me, Wayland (with Sway) didn't crash yet.

But Wayland has it's own problems; most important problems are that applications and features somewhat related with Xorg server that we used to use, won't work natively on Wayland; they need some denture, superstructure to work.

For me Wayland has also some problems with image which is somewhat blured, especially fonts in my favorite terminal - lxterminal and even in browser; Xorg server has a lot sharper view, just like it should be.

For me both should coexist indefinitely and with time, maybe some new, better alternative to them would emerge and beat them.
We have alternative sound servers, DE, boot, service and network managers, etc. - Linux is a system of alternatives and no one should be forced to use one solution if don't want to, like in Windows.

archevilst · 2025-11-02 14:23:15

seth wrote:

Personally I'm just happy I can rant about HDMI being vandalized into uselessness by Hollywood.

Wait, what?

archevilst · 2025-11-02 14:25:31

mpan wrote:

Scimmia wrote:
zpg443 wrote:
I try every few months to launch Wayland
Impressive, considering it's impossible to launch Wayland. This seems to be a common theme among those against Wayland, they don't understand anything about it.
Xorg should just expose Wayland and drop X11. That would either satisfy all or make dissatisfaction equally distributed across projects. /s

It's great that someone even put Wayland in motion, but it just isn't there yet.
All problems could be solved rewriting Linux gpu stack, IMO.

seth · 2025-11-02 14:25:56

Well, that's no *all* I do or what makes me happy

archevilst · 2025-11-02 14:26:58

Succulent of your garden wrote:

mpan wrote:
Xorg should just expose Wayland and drop X11. That would either satisfy all or make dissatisfaction equally distributed across projects. /s
Some kind of "Jesus" dev

Yeah, the Jesus market is shrinking. Houston, we have a problem.

Arch Linux

#26 2025-10-31 23:24:13

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#27 2025-11-01 09:03:35

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#28 2025-11-01 09:07:33

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#29 2025-11-01 09:25:40

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#30 2025-11-01 14:00:49

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#31 2025-11-01 14:27:19

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#32 2025-11-01 14:30:26

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#33 2025-11-01 14:33:26

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#34 2025-11-01 14:53:22

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#35 2025-11-01 15:44:55

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#36 2025-11-01 15:54:19

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#37 2025-11-01 21:18:32

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#38 2025-11-02 14:23:15

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#39 2025-11-02 14:25:31

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#40 2025-11-02 14:25:56

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

#41 2025-11-02 14:26:58

Re: Wayland is NOT the future of Linux

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