Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

starfry · 2025-12-17 16:19:01

I am not sure where is the best place to ask this... There is a package in the AUR called "apache-tools" that provides some apache-related tools such as htpasswd. Rather than that being a separate AUR package, could it be a package provided by the "apache" package such that its presence does not conflict with installing "apache" ?

Use case... I have Ansible configurations used for provisioning and "apache-tools" is included as a provider of generally useful command-line tools. On a subset of nodes that run webservers, they call for "apache" but it conflicts with "apache-tools". It would be good if "apache" satisfied the call for "apache-tools" in this case, replacing "apache-tools" if that is already installed.

If "apache" could provide "apache-tools" then the "apache-tools" package could be removed from the AUR.

WorMzy · 2025-12-17 16:32:21

The apache package already provides the tools that AUR package mentions:

$ pacman -Fx "/usr/bin/(htdigest$|htpasswd$|ab$|htdbm$)"
usr/bin/ab is owned by extra/apache 2.4.66-1
usr/bin/htdbm is owned by extra/apache 2.4.66-1
usr/bin/htdigest is owned by extra/apache 2.4.66-1
usr/bin/htpasswd is owned by extra/apache 2.4.66-1

What is ansible failing on?

Mod note: moving to NC.

starfry · 2025-12-17 16:38:38

Apache tools is installed as part of a baseline default to give things like htpassword without needing the full apache package. But when apache is required, that default presence of apache-tools prevents it from installing (Pacman terminates with an error) rather than the install just going ahead because it satisfies apache-tools.

cryptearth · 2025-12-17 16:40:17

well, comparing the PKGBUILDs the conflict is justified: both use the current httpd release as source
the difference is that "apache" properly configures and builds the full httpd server along with user/group and service while "apache-tools" merely extracts the bundled tools
so the proper solution seem to update your playbooks and split between apache and apache-tools depend on if you rather only need the tools or if the node is a full webserver instance

although i see the question of why apache-tools exists rather this way: what do you need components of the httpd server without the server itself?
most can be done by other means - like htpasswd can also be done with openssl
so the question becomes: what's the need for EXACTLY that cannot be satisfied otherwise?

starfry · 2025-12-17 16:45:19

in a nutshell, engineer on their laptop has htpasswd which is convenient (yes, openssl could be used but only if you know how). It's a user convenience. Server has full-blown apache on it.
I agree you can use openssl but, if you don't know how then you have to go and find out. The apache-tools must have been provided with this convenience in mind. It would make sense to me to have these packages work together.

Scimmia · 2025-12-17 16:49:05

starfry wrote:

Apache tools is installed as part of a baseline default

This is the real problem here.

starfry · 2025-12-17 16:50:16

Scimmia wrote:

starfry wrote:
Apache tools is installed as part of a baseline default
This is the real problem here.

why, what's wrong with that?

Scimmia · 2025-12-17 16:51:12

Exactly what you're running into. You are saying you MUST have that package installed when it's simply not true. It should not be part of the baseline default

ayekat · 2025-12-17 19:39:38

How is apache-tools being installed? Is it installed from a repo, or does the Ansible role/playbook pull the PKGBUILD from the AUR and build the package…?
If it's the former, couldn't you instead provide an `apache-tools` metapackage that simply pulls in apache as a dependency as a workaround?

Better would be of course to fix the Ansible code itself (starting with: what is htpasswd used for?).
But not sure if that's an option. Is the Ansible code publicly available?

cryptearth · 2025-12-17 20:24:37

Scimmia wrote:

starfry wrote:
Apache tools is installed as part of a baseline default
This is the real problem here.

I see another one

starfry wrote:

yes, openssl could be used but only if you know how). It's a user convenience. Server has full-blown apache on it.
I agree you can use openssl but, if you don't know how then you have to go and find out.

using the wrong tool just for the convenience of refusing to learn HOW to use the correct one

as one trained in metal works i can think of several "it gets the job done"-anologies - and as one wise person once taught me: the perfect tool for you is the one you get the job done best - but that still doesn't mean to abuse callipars for markings as callipers aren't just made for markings but specifically for meassuring and meassuting only

same goes with apache-tools: someone felt the "need" to just grab the few tools the httpd source package comes with for the sake of convenience to not bother to learn how to use other tools proper to get the job done

so, if you feel the "need" to abuse htpasswd just because you don't want to learn how to use openssl - or do whatever it is you use htpasswd for aside from a htdocs dir of a server - then THAT's the root cause of the conflict you encounter

tl;dr: you got yourself in a xy-problem - instead of try to get a solution for your conflict you should avoid it in the first place

Arch Linux

#1 2025-12-17 16:19:01

Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

#2 2025-12-17 16:32:21

Re: Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

#3 2025-12-17 16:38:38

Re: Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

#4 2025-12-17 16:40:17

Re: Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

#5 2025-12-17 16:45:19

Re: Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

#6 2025-12-17 16:49:05

Re: Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

#7 2025-12-17 16:50:16

Re: Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

#8 2025-12-17 16:51:12

Re: Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

#9 2025-12-17 19:39:38

Re: Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

#10 2025-12-17 20:24:37

Re: Would it be possible for apache to satisfy apache-tools ?

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