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#1 2007-06-22 13:54:38

KomodoDave
Member
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: 2007-04-22
Posts: 162
Website

Recommended Flash IDE?

Hey guys,

I'd like to expand my web dev abilities by familiarising myself with Flash; I've a potential client who'll need some Flash work doing, plus a planned website of my own that I'd like to implement in flash to allow custom fonts and vector art scalability.

I was wondering what Flash IDE you'd recommend, and whether or not you've tried it in WINE? Linux options are scarce to none, as you know; F4L is hardly up to scratch, and its merge into [insert_infant_project_name_here] doesn't seem to be moving anywhere fast.

Would you suggest buying Adobe software and running it in WINE, or is some competitor's alternative a better choice?

Additionally, info on the best option budget-wise would be most welcome. Obviously I'm attempting to Google this stuff too, but I'd much rather receive advice from a Real Person (TM) on the matter.

Cheers smile

- Dave

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#2 2007-06-22 14:40:55

KomodoDave
Member
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: 2007-04-22
Posts: 162
Website

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

This looks quite cool:

  http://haxe.org/

It's a high-level language with generic OO syntax that allows you to create JavaScript and SWF files; it has Flash 9 support tool. Me likes...

I always feel uncomfortable using tools like this, though. I feel like I'm fencing myself in, since an employer will know nothing of haXe, and will instead be unimpressed at my lack of familiarity with JS and ActionScript syntax and libraries. Would I be digging myself a hole, using a wrapper language such as this?

- Dave

Last edited by KomodoDave (2007-06-22 15:11:21)

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#3 2007-06-23 01:07:59

N30N
Member
Registered: 2007-04-08
Posts: 273

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

KomodoDave wrote:

it has Flash 9 support tool. Me likes...

While that is cool, you should remember to use flash 7 if you want it to have a chance of it working for gnash users.

What are you wanting to produce?

If you just wanting to produce static vector artwork (sounded like it from your first post) you should use SVG instead, every modern browser now has native support of it (you can always use OOo to convert to a swf so you still have a vector fallback for IE users (also look into the IESVG script, I have not got around to testing it out myself as IE4L dose not support VML and I keep forgetting).

If you want to make vector animations (IMO the only good use for flash) you should have a look at Anime Studio which has native linux support. I've also used SWF Quicker (a low cost flash clone) in wine without any problems. SWF Tools are also very useful (at last something open) you can easily convert a sequence of PDFs into a animation. If you use blender there a also two scripts that can export to swf.

For video, wmv is now supported pretty well, but my preference is to use ogg and have cortado (compile a svn version) as a fallback (all open source yay!). smile

If your just trying to snazz up you sites but aren't very experienced with javascript you could give the moo.fx library a try.

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#4 2007-06-23 06:56:20

KomodoDave
Member
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: 2007-04-22
Posts: 162
Website

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

N30N wrote:
KomodoDave wrote:

it has Flash 9 support tool. Me likes...

While that is cool, you should remember to use flash 7 if you want it to have a chance of it working for gnash users.

What are you wanting to produce?

If you just wanting to produce static vector artwork (sounded like it from your first post) you should use SVG instead, every modern browser now has native support of it (you can always use OOo to convert to a swf so you still have a vector fallback for IE users (also look into the IESVG script, I have not got around to testing it out myself as IE4L dose not support VML and I keep forgetting).

If you want to make vector animations (IMO the only good use for flash) you should have a look at Anime Studio which has native linux support. I've also used SWF Quicker (a low cost flash clone) in wine without any problems. SWF Tools are also very useful (at last something open) you can easily convert a sequence of PDFs into a animation. If you use blender there a also two scripts that can export to swf.

For video, wmv is now supported pretty well, but my preference is to use ogg and have cortado (compile a svn version) as a fallback (all open source yay!). smile

If your just trying to snazz up you sites but aren't very experienced with javascript you could give the moo.fx library a try.

I want to create a book-mimicking site, where you can turn a page, then handwritten text appears and you also get an animated book illustration occasionally.

IE7 doesn't support SVG without a plugin, and my Inkscape creations are rarely displayed correctly in FF, so it's not a path I wish to pursue.

Yes, vector animation is the reason I want to use flash; I desired the scalability of vector images, plus I want to use custom fonts on my 'book' site.

Thanks loads for those app links; their combined cost is massively less than that of CS3... I'll go read more about them smile

Edit: No way, there's source for a 'page turn' app on the SWFQuicker site, and it's the best I've ever seen! Major kudos to you, N30N; I'd pay the price of the app to get that alone big_smile

- Dave

Last edited by KomodoDave (2007-06-23 07:05:37)

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#5 2007-06-23 14:05:39

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

Ugh. Dont use flash.

James

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#6 2007-06-23 15:07:22

KomodoDave
Member
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: 2007-04-22
Posts: 162
Website

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

iphitus wrote:

Ugh. Dont use flash.

James

There's hardly much choice in the matter, for scalable vector graphics.

- Dave

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#7 2007-06-23 16:40:36

N30N
Member
Registered: 2007-04-08
Posts: 273

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

KomodoDave wrote:

I want to create a book-mimicking site, where you can turn a page, then handwritten text appears and you also get an animated book illustration occasionally.

That is not a very good uses of flash. I suggest you read up on web accessibility, your going to make is hard or imposable for screen reader, keyboard users, and search bots to used you pages. Not to mention that effect has been way over used. Have a look at this Dynamic Text Replacement article for custom fonts (or use MS's WEFT if you really want to change the font for the whole page).

KomodoDave wrote:

my Inkscape creations are rarely displayed correctly in FF, so it's not a path I wish to pursue.

Are you having problems with anything besides the gaussian blur filter? Because my stuff works fine.

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#8 2007-06-23 16:47:33

KomodoDave
Member
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: 2007-04-22
Posts: 162
Website

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

N30N wrote:
KomodoDave wrote:

I want to create a book-mimicking site, where you can turn a page, then handwritten text appears and you also get an animated book illustration occasionally.

That is not a very good uses of flash. I suggest you read up on web accessibility, your going to make is hard or imposable for screen reader, keyboard users, and search bots to used you pages. Not to mention that effect has been way over used. Have a look at this Dynamic Text Replacement article for custom fonts (or use MS's WEFT if you really want to change the font for the whole page).

I'm aware of those problems, and intend to get round them by combining some nifty PHP with the flash I create.

Thanks for the font links - I know there are several non-flash 'workarounds', but none of them are completely cross-browser. That link you provided is IE-only, obviously, which is no good for me.

KomodoDave wrote:

my Inkscape creations are rarely displayed correctly in FF, so it's not a path I wish to pursue.

Are you having problems with anything besides the gaussian blur filter? Because my stuff works fine.

IE7 dosen't support SVG natively! That's a fairly big deal, in my eyes at least.

- Dave

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#9 2007-06-23 22:27:45

N30N
Member
Registered: 2007-04-08
Posts: 273

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

KomodoDave wrote:

I'm aware of those problems, and intend to get round them by combining some nifty PHP with the flash I create.

What do you have planned with PHP (ajaks, browser sniffing neutral)? What ever u do it's still not going to be very accessible (which IMO is far more important than using custom fonts). Oh, if you haven't already looked at it Ming has very nice support with PHP and is probably has the best documention of all the open source options.

KomodoDave wrote:

IE7 dosen't support SVG natively! That's a fairly big deal, in my eyes at least.

I just had a quick look about and the Batik SVG Toolkit looks like another viable fallback (and it dose nicer antialiasing than VML).

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#10 2007-06-24 00:23:27

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

KomodoDave wrote:
iphitus wrote:

Ugh. Dont use flash.

James

There's hardly much choice in the matter, for scalable vector graphics.

- Dave

But do you need to use them so badly? Are these scalable vector graphics critical to the operation of your site, or just to look nice? Most likely not.

Flash encourages bad design. It is overused and abused, for so many things it shouldnt be. If you're just using it for a minor aesthetic improvement, but no functionality improvement, you're using flash needlessly. If you're making a whole website in it, then that's just bad design.

For what you describe, you could easily make the site in HTML with a tad of JS for some animation. As for the fonts? Your site would be a whole lot more readable if you just used standard sans/serif fonts.

James

Last edited by iphitus (2007-06-24 00:26:44)

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#11 2007-06-24 09:27:10

KomodoDave
Member
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: 2007-04-22
Posts: 162
Website

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

N30N wrote:
KomodoDave wrote:

I'm aware of those problems, and intend to get round them by combining some nifty PHP with the flash I create.

What do you have planned with PHP (ajaks, browser sniffing neutral)? What ever u do it's still not going to be very accessible (which IMO is far more important than using custom fonts). Oh, if you haven't already looked at it Ming has very nice support with PHP and is probably has the best documention of all the open source options.

I can deliver content via AJAX to the client, then both include it in a hidden XHTML element and deliver it to a flash interface that handles it as I desire (custom font etc.). Alternatively I could simply have an XHTML link to a 'plain' version that simply displays the textual content delivered via AJAX.

KomodoDave wrote:

IE7 dosen't support SVG natively! That's a fairly big deal, in my eyes at least.

I just had a quick look about and the Batik SVG Toolkit looks like another viable fallback (and it dose nicer antialiasing than VML).

That looks pretty cool, and Java is my forte, but I don't have the animosity towards flash that you guys seem to... I wouldn't use it unless I felt it necessary, but the aim of this particular website is to get some ad revenue; there's going to be no interaction from the user, since it's the write-up of my 'Theory of Everything' (not sure whether you read the original draft...), so I need to make the whole site as visually engaging as possible in order to lure people in and keep them reading.

- Dave

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#12 2007-06-24 09:40:05

KomodoDave
Member
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: 2007-04-22
Posts: 162
Website

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

iphitus wrote:
KomodoDave wrote:
iphitus wrote:

Ugh. Dont use flash.

James

There's hardly much choice in the matter, for scalable vector graphics.

- Dave

But do you need to use them so badly? Are these scalable vector graphics critical to the operation of your site, or just to look nice? Most likely not.

That's a rather poor argument, if you'll excuse my saying so. I wouldn't say avatars, signatures and emoticons are 'critical to the operation' of these forums, but they add a lot to the experience of using them. As described in the above post, I need to make the site as engaging as possible to the masses.

Flash encourages bad design.

Yet it doesn't proclude good design smile

It is overused and abused, for so many things it shouldnt be. If you're just using it for a minor aesthetic improvement, but no functionality improvement, you're using flash needlessly. If you're making a whole website in it, then that's just bad design.

I agree; what I'd be using it for wouldn't be 'minor' aesthetic improvement though; it would dramatically change the feel of the website.

I take on board what you guys have said about the book idea, perhaps it's not the best design... I really want to get a feel of ancient knowledge going on, and some preliminary designs I Inskaped, with some paper/leather textures I made and a cursive font looked rather great. I'll consider other options. Regardless of what I end up with, I do want animated content in there rather than static images as illustrations, so I'll need to use some flash; I agree that using normal textual content would be better than flash-embedded text, because of accessibility issues.

For what you describe, you could easily make the site in HTML with a tad of JS for some animation. As for the fonts? Your site would be a whole lot more readable if you just used standard sans/serif fonts.

If I decide against the book idea, then that's what I'll do, of course. The idea of using flash for illustration-style animations, rather than JS, still appeals greatly because of the scalability factor.

Cheers for the suggestions wink

- Dave

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#13 2007-06-24 13:37:40

Oin
Member
Registered: 2005-09-02
Posts: 63

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

I agree with what iphitus was saying. You'll have to think very hard about your intended audience.

It sounds like you want your site to be readable by everyone and anyone regardless of the OS/browser they're using and that's the way it should be for your project. (actually that's the way it should be for any site on the web, sadly it's not).

I didn't quite understand if you're going to provide a non-Flash version of your site in addition to the Flash one. But if you aren't you're going to lose a lot of your intended audience.

While it is true that some visitors will stay on your site and possibly be so impressed that they'll recommend you to their friends in the case you succeed, it is also true that others will not give it a second look simply because it uses flash so extensively. Some won't be able to see it properly, some won't wait for it to load, some won't have the plugin installed or won't know how to install it and finally some will hate everything flash so badly that they won't want to have that plugin installed or ever browse inside a flash-only website.

For example I don't have a flash plugin in Fedora (on my other partition) and I'm not planning on ever installing one simply because I find the general uses of Flash undignifying for me as a user. If I ever were to find a link to your site while browsing from my fedora, I would browse away without giving it a second thought simply because of Flash.


I suggest using a good combination of nice graphics and a little bit of AJAX to spice it up instead. A very good design and maybe a nice drawing on every page if you have what it takes is much more likely to appeal to a wider audience.

I know I'd much rather be browsing something that looks like this: http://csszengarden.com/ than any flash website in the world. Especially if it's reading you want me to do.

Last edited by Oin (2007-06-24 13:41:54)


In Linux there are no secrets!

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#14 2007-06-24 14:19:59

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

and if you want cross browser animation with javascript: http://script.aculo.us/

the prototype javascript framework adds a lot of useful things too: http://www.prototypejs.org/

James

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#15 2007-06-24 18:22:23

KomodoDave
Member
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: 2007-04-22
Posts: 162
Website

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

Thanks a lot guys smile

I've seen some impressive things done in CSS, like a mac-os dock for example.

Cheers for those JS links too, James. I've seen scriptaculous before, but shied away because I prefer to write my own code for _everything_ if possible, simply because I have more confidence in my own abilities than those of others. Foolish, perhaps, but I only ever have to write each class once...

  - Dave

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#16 2007-06-26 03:36:03

wiremore
Member
Registered: 2005-08-23
Posts: 43

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

KomodoDave wrote:

I prefer to write my own code for _everything_ if possible, simply because I have more confidence in my own abilities than those of others. Foolish, perhaps, but I only ever have to write each class once...

  - Dave

Ahem. Did you write your own javascript interpreter? Did you write a web server, web browser, operating system, and did you design the microchip to run it all?

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#17 2007-06-26 08:25:56

KomodoDave
Member
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: 2007-04-22
Posts: 162
Website

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

wiremore wrote:
KomodoDave wrote:

I prefer to write my own code for _everything_ if possible, simply because I have more confidence in my own abilities than those of others. Foolish, perhaps, but I only ever have to write each class once...

  - Dave

Ahem. Did you write your own javascript interpreter? Did you write a web server, web browser, operating system, and did you design the microchip to run it all?

By 'if possible' I meant 'within reason', I guess =P It's more specifically related to web work - I like to be able to say that every piece of content on a website is my own work, rather than saying 'I used libraries X and Y'.

- Dave

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#18 2007-06-26 11:59:04

shining
Pacman Developer
Registered: 2006-05-10
Posts: 2,043

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

KomodoDave wrote:

By 'if possible' I meant 'within reason', I guess =P It's more specifically related to web work - I like to be able to say that every piece of content on a website is my own work, rather than saying 'I used libraries X and Y'.

I think the idea is to not reinvent the wheel, it's not needed.
When you've the feeling all libraries available are pure crap and so broken they can't be fixed or improved,
then feel free to develop a new better one, so that everyone can benefit from it.
At least, that's how I see oss working..


pacman roulette : pacman -S $(pacman -Slq | LANG=C sort -R | head -n $((RANDOM % 10)))

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#19 2007-06-26 12:36:09

KomodoDave
Member
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: 2007-04-22
Posts: 162
Website

Re: Recommended Flash IDE?

shining wrote:
KomodoDave wrote:

By 'if possible' I meant 'within reason', I guess =P It's more specifically related to web work - I like to be able to say that every piece of content on a website is my own work, rather than saying 'I used libraries X and Y'.

I think the idea is to not reinvent the wheel, it's not needed.
When you've the feeling all libraries available are pure crap and so broken they can't be fixed or improved,
then feel free to develop a new better one, so that everyone can benefit from it.
At least, that's how I see oss working..

Yes, that sounds like the best mentality to adopt smile I'll take your advice, shining.

- Dave

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