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#1 2004-05-18 02:09:52

xerxes2
Member
From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
Website

Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

This is taken from real life, honestly

Clip from mail corresponding between xerxes2 and the "Editor in Chief" of one (maybe even the) of the hottest IT sites on this planet, named X here.

xerxes2: -You havn't abandoned arch completely I hope, it sure is the best
distro I used.

X: -I nuked it to install FC2 last night. Arch's Current is also very buggy.

Seriousley now guys, wtf shall we do?
Nobody nuke arch just like that, our honour is  at stake here.
It's 3.50 am in Sweden right now so all I can think of is...

1. Call in sarah31
2:  Put all our brains together, focus  real hard to make 0.7 100% bugfree.


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#2 2004-05-18 02:14:24

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

bug free is boring.

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#3 2004-05-18 02:28:36

steelerguy
Member
From: Stony Brook, NY
Registered: 2004-03-20
Posts: 27

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Arch is definately buggy for those that can't set it up right.

My computer freezes maybe once a month or so and I think it has a lot more to do with the 40% overclock than Arch.  To ditch Arch to go to FC2 because of stability problems is simply brilliant, talk about buggy!

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#4 2004-05-18 03:36:23

jakenull
Member
From: Vancouver Canada
Registered: 2003-12-04
Posts: 11

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

buggy? echsqueez me baking power. I haven't had a single bug creep up in my 111 days  5:52 hour uptime. The server gets ALOT of traffic daily pounding away at the web/ftp/sql server. Arch does its job and does it extremely well for me. Maybe some people should stop distro hopping and actually learn how to USE Linux instead of just getting good at installing. 
(last statement not necessarily directed at "X" in xerxes2's post. Just ment to be taken as general advice)

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#5 2004-05-18 06:56:15

Mr Green
Forum Fellow
From: U.K.
Registered: 2003-12-21
Posts: 5,751

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

xerxes2,

FC2 emmm


I think it is sad the opinion he had

That makes me mad!

But I will not cry

Because Arch to me will never die



Again it is up to the user what they want, "X" will be back  smile

Mr Green


Mr Green

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#6 2004-05-18 10:12:42

Egil.B
Member
From: Universitas Osloensis
Registered: 2004-02-14
Posts: 116

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Blame the hardware. roll

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#7 2004-05-18 10:12:54

xerxes2
Member
From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
Website

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Ohh myyy goooood!
Dusty, are you a genius or what!
But what could you exspect from a guy who first said this...

Dusty wrote:

"making omlettes is the simplest form of nuclear fusion"

Why do I never Get such brilliant ideas?

Instead of getting our hands dirty (nailing down bugs,updating packages,making pacman faster, etc.),
so can we instead just do what we do best (nothing,trolling.FUDing,etc..) .

Arch needs a dirty image, I will come back later with more on this.
He he. I sucks at computers but these areas are my aces.


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#8 2004-05-18 12:48:59

potentials
Member
Registered: 2004-01-04
Posts: 130

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

xerxes2: Hope you're not talking about the site I have in mind especially that I saw somebody with your nickname there , as far as I know, the Editor in Chief there hates Fedora.

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#9 2004-05-18 13:42:22

Lovechild
Member
From: Århus, Denmark
Registered: 2003-09-24
Posts: 64

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Arch is buggy, admit it.. I've had serious issues previously with the current GNOME packages, gstreamer fx. was completely b0rked.

it's part of why the installs shouldn't default to current but a "debian like testing" stage, where we've had some period of delay to discover bugs - say 7 days delay without critical bug reports filed. This could probably also help define release cycles, if we can avoid doing truly debian and being paranoid about versioning and ultra slow freezes.


I'm proud to be a a freedomloving infidel piece of treehugging eurotrash.

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#10 2004-05-18 14:04:53

dp
Member
From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,366
Website

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

0.6 release is buggy - YES

0.7 will be for sure better


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#11 2004-05-18 14:45:55

Mr Green
Forum Fellow
From: U.K.
Registered: 2003-12-21
Posts: 5,751

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Release Early Release Often......

With as many system set ups as there are grains of sand on a beach

There are bound to be problems but they can be fixed

If only people would remain calm...

Look at the problem carefully then

Post on forum ................

Mr Green


Mr Green

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#12 2004-05-18 14:46:37

Lovechild
Member
From: Århus, Denmark
Registered: 2003-09-24
Posts: 64

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

dp wrote:

0.6 release is buggy - YES

0.7 will be for sure better

doubtful, the package QA is stil basically the same, and package maintainers while cool people are still humans and as such make mistakes.


I'm proud to be a a freedomloving infidel piece of treehugging eurotrash.

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#13 2004-05-18 14:59:29

freakyc
Member
Registered: 2004-03-28
Posts: 89

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Well, if he was like me, there were a couple updates (openssl, gnome) that kind of soured my experience initially.  But I realized, other than that, I liked the system.  And the problems were fixed.  And I'm still here.

But I could see if someone tried and had the same things happen as me, how they could be turned off by the experience.  It all depends on what someone is looking for in a system, I guess.

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#14 2004-05-18 15:47:05

dp
Member
From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,366
Website

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Lovechild wrote:
dp wrote:

0.6 release is buggy - YES

0.7 will be for sure better

doubtful, the package QA is stil basically the same, and package maintainers while cool people are still humans and as such make mistakes.

yes, that's true, but if you look at the details, you will realize some big differences:

- now, a 2.4 and 2.6 kernel are working smothly side-by-side (=installed both together, no problem with wlan..++)

- openssl is updated

about the installer, i dont know, as i didnt used it since 0.4 (and also then not 100% successfully :-) ... had to boot the cd, then to mount a partition where i downloaded the img-files for the floppies and then mount these img-files to copy modules to run my network-card --- dont ask!)

remember:
we are not going to make archlinux fool-proof, because of:

Shaw's Principle:
        Build a system that even a fool can use, and only a fool will
        want to use it.


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#15 2004-05-18 16:45:20

xerxes2
Member
From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
Website

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

/potentials
Xerxes2 has been all over the net lately...I calmed down now,
I mean that it's X' job to test distros so X nuked arch to get room for FC2 and next week comes Linare..and so on..

/Mr Green
As always are your comments good..
If you just take it easy and read arch documentation (manual, wiki) most problems can be solved.

steelerguy wrote:

Arch is definately buggy for those that can't set it up right.

He he, this was a good one.
Seriousley, arch is a little different from other distros but not more complicated,
that's my opinion as a newbie.

Egil.B wrote:

Blame the hardware.

This is also very true, honestly now, I don't care if your name is Linus or Jesus or Xentac, everyone had been in trouble with kernel 2.6 series.

/dp
Good that you are working on arch, without package maintainers we would be lost in compiling hell. Thanks


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#16 2004-05-18 18:06:13

ravster
Member
From: Queen's U, Kingston, Canada
Registered: 2004-05-02
Posts: 285
Website

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Who in the world is this person?! :evil:  :evil:
And what do you all mean, 'buggy'? I have been on Arch for like two weeks, and have had no problem at all. I installed it completely in 4 hours, and the only difficulty I had was with X-configuration. Apart from that(which was caused purely by my not knowing exactly what things to add in, even with the help given in the file), everything works fine for me.

Besides, this person is supposed to know a lot more than me about using linux, what sort of problems could (s)he be getting? If we know what the problems are, we can sort them out sooner.

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#17 2004-05-18 18:26:28

RTF
Member
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 27

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

I suppose Arch is buggy, compared with, oh....

...Debian tongue

But seriously, I've hardly had a problem with it; only a few rare crashes with some programs, and X once. This may be in part because I'm using neither Gnome nor KDE as a desktop, and I turn the thing off every night because the cpu noise is too darn loud(someday I want to replace some parts and perhaps mod it a bit) but I'd say you have to expect less reliability when you're staying on top of big projects like those.

I highly doubt that Fedora will be particularly better than Arch in this respect. I did try the Core 2 test before I went to Arch, and it wouldn't boot, so I just gave up on it then and there.

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#18 2004-05-18 19:03:27

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

I think that the only two or three things that really need to be worked on are hardware support, the installation, and the desktop. All three are really lacking any true shimmer that separates them from the other distros, and I think that combining the true power of Linux without making it too user-friendly, yet making the desktop nice will really help it out. However, that's just my opinion, take it as you wish.

Oh, and xerxes, ROFL @ sigging me. lol


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#19 2004-05-18 21:00:39

dp
Member
From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,366
Website

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

xerxes2 wrote:
Egil.B wrote:

Blame the hardware.

This is also very true, honestly now, I don't care if your name is Linus or Jesus or Xentac, everyone had been in trouble with kernel 2.6 series.

he he - that's the best quote of today ! thanx for the smile it produced big_smile big_smile

xerxes2 wrote:

/dp
Good that you are working on arch, without package maintainers we would be lost in compiling hell. Thanks

thanx for nice words - in the name of the team  (some of my pkgs depend on pkgs maintained by others :-) )


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#20 2004-05-18 21:17:13

i3839
Member
Registered: 2004-02-04
Posts: 1,185

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

everyone had been in trouble with kernel 2.6 series.

I had no problems yet, updating from 2.4 to 2.6 is not a big deal.

Arch buggy, hm..

Things that somewhat seem "buggy" in Arch for me are:

Rxvt couldn't handle colours and the home key (maybe some other keys like backspace and/or del too) didn't work: Adding TERM=rxvt to .bashrc solved that.

Ssh doesn't work when it wants to ask for a password because it can't find /usr/lib/ssh/ssh-askpass: Fixed by avoiding passwords (using keys only), and changing the default ssh config a bit.

Perhaps some other things, but can't remember them right now.

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#21 2004-05-19 02:44:21

p0indext0r
Member
From: Toronto / Canada
Registered: 2004-02-21
Posts: 30

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

I've been using arch for about 2 months now and have had some problems here and there... but only really package related such as gnome and kde mainly. For now (at least until things are corrected) I just compile my own packages to the best of my ability until the package maintainers can get things sorted out. They usually always do smile. I don't like bothering them with complaints, plus someone always seems to get to them first anyway.

There have been times where I really just felt like installing slackware, because I've never had any real problems with it, even in my newbie stages of linux, it just worked. Arch is headed in this direction... I CAN FEEL IT IN MY BONES! big_smile

As for how Arch runs, it's really a pleasure to use, reminds me of slackware but a little more "risk-ay" wink. I personally love it and hope to someday be able to help out.

I tend not to use this forum much because I'm the kind of guy who likes to try and figure things out on his own, instead of coming here for help. Of course if I can't seem to figure it out I will come here. One thing I do use this forum for is to help out others when ever I can, it's bascially the only real way I can contribute until I get more time for other things.

- PD.


If a turtle loses its shell, is it naked or homeless? -- p0indext0r

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#22 2004-05-19 03:01:15

freakyc
Member
Registered: 2004-03-28
Posts: 89

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

ravster wrote:

Besides, this person is supposed to know a lot more than me about using linux, what sort of problems could (s)he be getting? If we know what the problems are, we can sort them out sooner.

I don't think being an Editor necessarily means someone is an expert in the what they are editing.  Although admittedly, that was the first thing I thought when I read it too.

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#23 2004-05-19 04:34:42

colnago
Member
From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2004-03-25
Posts: 438

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Please allow me to ramble.

I don't think anyone who is working with arch would be happy in returning to a newbie distro like fc2.  I use 2 or 3 different distros and have tried FC2 and suse 9.1.  They are fine to get going, but all of the layers of abstraction are just too messy and leave me with an uneasy feeling.   It really depends upon the type of computer use you are.  Arch is new, simple, and clean.  An F1 distro which you would not use to commute to get groceries. 

Arch developers and the people on this list fix/workaround any bugs very quickly.  This is impressive considering new arch packages are often available on the same day as the linux-wide packages are released.  In some ways, it is the people here that make distros like Debian so stable, because the packages have been run through the ringer by us.

The maturity of the linux OS and the quality of the arch developers shows in the lack of bugs in 0.6.  Relative to mainstream and supposedly less buggy fc2, mdk10ce, and suse9.1, I find that arch is less buggy (well, it was really wrt fc2 test3, and mdk10ce was really a final RC, but i install patches when available).

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#24 2004-05-19 07:15:37

Zym0tiC
Member
Registered: 2004-01-17
Posts: 40
Website

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Allright, maybe are Debian or slackware more stable then AL but that
doesn't means that AL is not stable. It depends on so many factors
like your kernel, hardware, software and the user offcourse big_smile

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#25 2004-05-19 15:21:42

xerxes2
Member
From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
Website

Re: Arch needs a hit. Everyone this way!

Lovechild wrote:

it's part of why the installs shouldn't default to current but a "debian like testing" stage, where we've had some period of delay to discover bugs - say 7 days delay without critical bug reports filed. This could probably also help define release cycles, if we can avoid doing truly debian and being paranoid about versioning and ultra slow freezes.

I've been thinking the same thing.
Some kind of a pre current repository, but  it's not an easy task to solv.
You need many volunteers with fast connections who are suying on a daily basis.
This problem is not going away for years either. Linux desktop software is still in early stages so there will be a never ending flood of new versions coming.


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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