[NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

saneone · 2007-08-25 21:26:03

Im' using KDE, cairo-lcd, libxft-lcd... my fonts looked beautifully, but now they look horrible...
After last upgrade my gtk apps (firefox, thunderbird) render fonts in an ugly way...
I've tried to revert to pango 1.16.5 with no lucky result (the same problem)...

here is the log:

[2007-08-19 14:56] upgraded bind (9.4.1_P1-2 -> 9.4.1_P1-3)
[2007-08-19 14:56] upgraded glib2 (2.14.0-2 -> 2.14.0-3)
[2007-08-19 14:56] upgraded gnupg2 (2.0.5-1 -> 2.0.6-1)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded gtk2 (2.10.14-2 -> 2.10.14-3)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded kernel26ck (2.6.22.2.ck1-1 -> 2.6.22.3.ck1-1)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded libdownload (1.1-1 -> 1.1-2)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded libevent (1.3b-1 -> 1.3d-1)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded libxtst (1.0.2-1 -> 1.0.3-1)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded nvidia-ck (100.14.11-2 -> 100.14.11-3)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded sip (4.6-1 -> 4.7-1)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded pyqt (3.17.2-1 -> 3.17.3-1)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded xf86-input-joystick (1.2.2-1 -> 1.2.3-1)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded xorg-server-utils (1.0.4-1 -> 1.0.4-2)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded xorg-utils (1.0.2-2 -> 1.0.2-4)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded xorg-xdm (1.1.5-1 -> 1.1.6-1)
[2007-08-19 14:57] upgraded xterm (225-1 -> 229-1)
[2007-08-21 00:16] upgraded cpio (2.8-1 -> 2.9-1)
[2007-08-21 00:16] upgraded ed (0.5-3 -> 0.8-1)
[2007-08-21 00:16] upgraded initscripts (2007.08-1 -> 2007.08-2)
[2007-08-21 00:16] upgraded intltool (0.36.0-1 -> 0.36.1-1)
[2007-08-21 00:16] upgraded libarchive (2.2.5-1 -> 2.2.6-1)
[2007-08-21 00:16] upgraded man-pages (2.60-1 -> 2.64-1)
[2007-08-21 00:16] upgraded pciutils (2.2.4-2 -> 2.2.6-1)
[2007-08-21 00:16] upgraded readline (5.2-2 -> 5.2-3)
[2007-08-22 00:16] upgraded gdbm (1.8.3-3 -> 1.8.3-4)
[2007-08-22 00:17] upgraded kernel26 (2.6.22.3-1 -> 2.6.22.4-2)
[2007-08-22 00:17] upgraded lcms (1.16-1 -> 1.17-1)
[2007-08-22 00:17] upgraded libice (1.0.2-1 -> 1.0.4-1)
[2007-08-22 00:17] upgraded libxrender (0.9.2-1 -> 0.9.3-1)
[2007-08-22 00:17] upgraded procinfo (18-3 -> 19-1)
[2007-08-22 00:17] upgraded xorg-apps (1.0.2-4 -> 1.0.3-1)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded kernel26 (2.6.22.4-2 -> 2.6.22.4-2.1)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded librsvg (2.18.0-1 -> 2.18.1-1)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded libxpm (3.5.6-1 -> 3.5.7-1)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded libxaw (1.0.3-1 -> 1.0.4-1)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded makedev (3.8.3-1 -> 3.23-1)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded mcpp (2.6-1 -> 2.6.4-1)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded naim (0.11.8.2.1-1 -> 0.11.8.3.1-1)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded nfs-utils (1.0.12-2 -> 1.0.12-3)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded pam (0.81-4 -> 0.99.8.1-3.1)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded pango (1.16.5-1 -> 1.18.0-1)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded sox (13.0.0-1 -> 13.0.0-2)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded xorg-apps (1.0.3-1 -> 1.0.3-2)
[2007-08-22 23:49] upgraded xtrans (1.0.3-1 -> 1.0.4-1)
[2007-08-25 15:25] upgraded glibc (2.6.1-1 -> 2.6.1-2)
[2007-08-25 15:25] upgraded bftpd (1.9-1 -> 2.0-1)
[2007-08-25 15:25] upgraded gcc (4.2.1-3 -> 4.2.1-3.1)
[2007-08-25 15:25] upgraded gtk-doc (1.8-2 -> 1.8-3)
[2007-08-25 15:25] upgraded hal-info (0.20070618-1 -> 0.20070725-1)
[2007-08-25 15:25] upgraded perl-xml-simple (2.16-2 -> 2.18-1)
[2007-08-25 15:25] upgraded icon-naming-utils (0.8.2-2 -> 0.8.5-1)
[2007-08-25 15:26] upgraded kernel26 (2.6.22.4-2.1 -> 2.6.22.5-1)
[2007-08-25 15:27] upgraded kernel26ck (2.6.22.3.ck1-1 -> 2.6.22.5.ck1-1)
[2007-08-25 15:27] upgraded libgnomeprint (2.18.0-1 -> 2.18.1-1)
[2007-08-25 22:41] removed libgnomeprintui (2.18.0-1)
[2007-08-25 22:41] removed libgnomeprint (2.18.1-1)

i dunno what happened...
plz, someone help me

regards

Last edited by saneone (2007-08-30 18:11:32)

milan · 2007-08-25 22:07:25

What are the contents of directory /etc/fonts/conf.d ?

Cheers!

saneone · 2007-08-25 22:14:34

milan wrote:

What are the contents of directory /etc/fonts/conf.d ?

Thx 4 your reply...

in conf.d direcotry there are only links:

20-fix-globaladvance.conf 40-generic.conf 65-nonlatin.conf
20-lohit-gujarati.conf 49-sansserif.conf 69-unifont.conf
20-unhint-small-vera.conf 50-user.conf 80-delicious.conf
30-amt-aliases.conf 51-local.conf 90-synthetic.conf
30-replace-bitmap-fonts.conf 60-latin.conf
30-urw-aliases.conf 65-fonts-persian.conf

Last edited by saneone (2007-08-25 22:17:33)

milan · 2007-08-25 22:23:50

Ok... everything seem fine there. My suggestion would be to install gtk-qt-engine . Then go to Control Center -> Appearance & Themes -> Gtk styles and fonts

Cheers!

Last edited by milan (2007-08-25 22:24:47)

saneone · 2007-08-25 22:37:32

milan wrote:

Ok... everything seem fine there. My suggestion would be to install gtk-qt-engine . Then go to Control Center -> Appearance & Themes -> Gtk styles and fonts

:: gtk-qt-engine-0.7-4: local version is up to date. Upgrade anyway? [Y/n] n
warning: gtk-qt-engine-0.7-4 is up to date -- skipping

I don't understand... It worked like a charm until I rebooted today...
Now all qt apps render fonts just like they did before, but gtk programs just drive me nuts...

the old "very nice" rendering:

and new... bad one (look especially on "W" letter):

Last edited by saneone (2007-08-25 22:46:35)

saneone · 2007-08-26 09:45:30

Does anyone have any ideas how to fix it?

shining · 2007-08-26 09:55:21

I think the second one looks nicer actually, but that bug on W is weird.

Could you try removing all your -lcd packages, just for testing?

saneone · 2007-08-26 10:35:11

I installed cairo and xft from current, but it's even worse... now both GTK and QT apps look horrible...

linux - sometimes i just don't get it...

Last edited by saneone (2007-08-26 10:44:20)

jean-paul · 2007-08-26 10:50:21

Hi,

you've tried alot, so give this a try.
Type

# ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/10-autohint.conf /etc/fonts/conf.d/10-autohint.conf

in a Terminal and - importent - reboot your box

Jean-Paul

saneone · 2007-08-26 11:46:41

jean-paul wrote:

Hi,
you've tried alot, so give this a try.
Type
# ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/10-autohint.conf /etc/fonts/conf.d/10-autohint.conf
in a Terminal and - importent - reboot your box
Jean-Paul

thank you very much...
it helped with the letters shape (no broken "W" or "K"), but, still, the letters look bigger than a few days ago and the spacing (between letters) is too large...

it looks like that now:

comparison to the old one:

Unfortunately i don't have screenshots of web pages (the difference will be more visible)...

any other ideas will be appreciated...
thx

Last edited by saneone (2007-08-26 11:48:44)

shining · 2007-08-26 11:56:30

saneone wrote:

any other ideas will be appreciated...

Which fonts are you using ?
You could try disabling autohinting again, and playing with different fonts.

saneone · 2007-08-26 12:12:48

shining wrote:

Which fonts are you using ?

Microsoft Web TT Fonts...
I have to use them, because I'm an amateur web pages/portals developer...

You could try disabling autohinting again, and playing with different fonts.

I tried switching between different methods of hinting and sub-pixel positioning...
The best for me is RGB sub-pixel pos. and slight autohinting - KDE apps render fonts correctly (just like they did), but I don't know what is going on with Firefox, Thunderbird

It was ok just two days ago

Last edited by saneone (2007-08-26 12:14:26)

Bogart · 2007-08-26 16:42:33

saneone wrote:

the letters look bigger than a few days ago and the spacing (between letters) is too large...

I think the spacing now is correct, while before it was wrong. The only "problem" is that you got used to a bad font rendering, and now that it has changed for better you feel like it's different and don't like it.

Really, *most* of the problems that people find in Linux's fonts are just because they are used to the awful default fonts from Windows XP. Yes, people can even get used to those fonts and believe they're good!!! And when they see correct fonts in Linux they think they're bad...

What I would do is remove the MS TTF fonts. They work bad in Windows and worse in Linux. You should use Bitstream Vera or DejaVu if you want good quality fonts (especially in web pages).

But, then again, you might think that they look wrong just because you're not used to it... Oh, well...

saneone · 2007-08-26 17:14:40

okay... i may get used to the new rendering, but I also want to know why it happened and how it happened, that the "old render style" is gone...
I cannot find an explanation and I'm kinda person that doesn't like uncontrolled changes...

shining · 2007-08-26 18:19:12

Bogart wrote:

I think the spacing now is correct, while before it was wrong. The only "problem" is that you got used to a bad font rendering, and now that it has changed for better you feel like it's different and don't like it.
Really, *most* of the problems that people find in Linux's fonts are just because they are used to the awful default fonts from Windows XP. Yes, people can even get used to those fonts and believe they're good!!! And when they see correct fonts in Linux they think they're bad...
What I would do is remove the MS TTF fonts. They work bad in Windows and worse in Linux. You should use Bitstream Vera or DejaVu if you want good quality fonts (especially in web pages).
But, then again, you might think that they look wrong just because you're not used to it... Oh, well...

What does correct font / correct spacing mean ?
IMO, that doesn't make any sense, because that's a totally subjective matter, like many other things in this world.

BTW, I love how fonts look in Windows, and I think that must be the only thing MS got right. Thus, I'm using ms fonts in linux, and a rendering as close as possible (no autohinting or antialiasing or subpixel rendering).

Similarly, I could find a woman beautiful that you would find ugly or just average. We are all different, and it's better that way

saneone · 2007-08-26 18:27:59

You're right... the actual spacing and font size are less readable for me

shining · 2007-08-26 18:33:45

saneone wrote:

You're right... the actual spacing and font size are less readable for me

That doesn't mean your taste can't change, but just that in my opinion, there isn't one perfect font rendering

saneone · 2007-08-26 18:45:35

my taste can change, but i would like to have a choice...

i don't like the fact, that I don't know how and why it happened w/o changing cairo, libxft and freetype

Last edited by saneone (2007-08-26 18:45:53)

jskier · 2007-08-26 21:02:00

I am also having this problem. I use KDE and qt-gtk-engine and all of a sudden it seems like the qt engine and kde no longer fully set my fonts properly in gtk apps. It's not a huge deal since I don't use much GTK stuff, but I just noticed that my favorite Firefox theme fonts look awful all of a sudden and I have to use other themes to get something less eye straining. And, in FF, theme defendant it seems that only the menu bar, bookmark bar, right click menu are really effected. Pages display fine. Weird!

Fonts have got to be the most annoying thing about linux I've ever dealt with. I have also tried doing the file link trick which actually made all of my fonts worse until I removed it. I'm stumped, but I've had worse font problems in the past

saneone · 2007-08-26 21:11:34

jskier wrote:

Fonts have got to be the most annoying thing about linux I've ever dealt with.

Yeah... me too... I even managed to set everything related to fonts correctly - just like I wanted and I was happy till yesterday, when the problem appeared again

Last edited by saneone (2007-08-26 21:15:15)

jskier · 2007-08-26 21:43:41

saneone wrote:

jskier wrote:
Fonts have got to be the most annoying thing about linux I've ever dealt with.
Yeah... me too... I even managed to set everything related to fonts correctly - just like I wanted and I was happy till yesterday, when the problem appeared again

Also the tabs in OpenOffice as well

I'll look into some of the gtk font config stuff I haven't had to touch for months. Must be a reference to a bad font and/or style somewhere... I'll keep you posted although it might be awhile, I've got a lot on my plate. Good luck to you,

In case anyone wants a peak at the problem, this is Firefox with the Graphite II theme (notice the bookmark bar, menu bar):

Last edited by jskier (2007-08-26 21:55:26)

saneone · 2007-08-27 10:57:24

still looking for a possible solution and explanation of the sudden appearance of the problem...

In Opera:

In Firefox (spacing is too large... it makes text less readable ):

Plz help me solve my problem if you know how...

Last edited by saneone (2007-08-27 12:50:31)

saneone · 2007-08-27 20:53:32

I nearly gave up...

shining · 2007-08-27 21:19:59

saneone wrote:

In Firefox (spacing is too large... it makes text less readable ):

Didn't it become too large only after enabling auto hinting ?

saneone · 2007-08-27 21:24:12

shining wrote:

saneone wrote:
In Firefox (spacing is too large... it makes text less readable ):
Didn't it become too large only after enabling auto hinting ?

It became too large when I added:

<match target="font" >
<edit mode="assign" name="autohint" >
<bool>true</bool>
</edit>
</match>

to my .fonts.conf
Luckily for me (but it is also hard to explain why) it doesn't affect Opera or Konqueror...
Both screenshots (Opera and FF) taken in "autohint true" setting, so I don't have any ideas why Firefox's spacing is so different...

Last edited by saneone (2007-08-27 21:28:26)

Arch Linux

#1 2007-08-25 21:26:03

[NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#2 2007-08-25 22:07:25

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#3 2007-08-25 22:14:34

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#4 2007-08-25 22:23:50

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#5 2007-08-25 22:37:32

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#6 2007-08-26 09:45:30

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#7 2007-08-26 09:55:21

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#8 2007-08-26 10:35:11

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#9 2007-08-26 10:50:21

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#10 2007-08-26 11:46:41

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#11 2007-08-26 11:56:30

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#12 2007-08-26 12:12:48

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#13 2007-08-26 16:42:33

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#14 2007-08-26 17:14:40

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#15 2007-08-26 18:19:12

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#16 2007-08-26 18:27:59

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#17 2007-08-26 18:33:45

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#18 2007-08-26 18:45:35

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#19 2007-08-26 21:02:00

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#20 2007-08-26 21:11:34

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#21 2007-08-26 21:43:41

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#22 2007-08-27 10:57:24

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#23 2007-08-27 20:53:32

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#24 2007-08-27 21:19:59

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

#25 2007-08-27 21:24:12

Re: [NEARLY SOLVED] font rendering in gtk apps problem after last upgrade

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