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#1 2007-01-21 20:12:20

freigeist
Member
From: Cologne, Germany
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 191

Arch Linux Beginners Guide

Remembering the days when I installed Arch Linux for the first time I still feel that Arch misses a guide for beginners. I started one at the Wiki. Its intention is to show how you install and configure Arch Linux until you have a fully working desktop system for multimedia and office purpose. I'm still heavily improving it. If you have any suggestions or critics feel free to drop me a note or add the content to the wiki. If you find some spelling or grammar errors do the same or fix them, I'm no native speaker smile


Elfenbeinturm.cc
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#2 2007-01-21 20:42:39

mucknert
Member
From: Berlin // Germany
Registered: 2006-06-27
Posts: 510

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

Great effort! I will scan through it and, if in need, contribute.

EDIT:
Yes, a good job with potential. I added some things and changed some minor typos. Nothing big yet but I think I might contribute some more. smile


Todays mistakes are tomorrows catastrophes.

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#3 2007-01-21 21:15:27

arooaroo
Member
From: London, UK
Registered: 2005-01-13
Posts: 1,268
Website

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

Great job. At first glance I notice CD burning seems to be missing. Would be worth getting an empty section title there ready for people to chip in.

Should be "Beginners' Guide", I suppose.

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#4 2007-01-21 21:33:28

freigeist
Member
From: Cologne, Germany
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 191

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

arooaroo wrote:

Great job. At first glance I notice CD burning seems to be missing. Would be worth getting an empty section title there ready for people to chip in.

Should be "Beginners' Guide", I suppose.

Added an empty CD and DVD burning section...about the '...because I'm no native speaker I'm not sure, I have seen "Beginners Guide" and "Beginner's Guide"...


Elfenbeinturm.cc
a metaphysical space of solitude and sanctity: http://www.elfenbeinturm.cc

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#5 2007-01-21 21:47:54

arooaroo
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From: London, UK
Registered: 2005-01-13
Posts: 1,268
Website

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

"A Beginner's Guide" or "Beginners' Guide". Take your pick.

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#6 2007-01-21 22:33:05

hightower
Member
Registered: 2006-04-02
Posts: 182

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

Nice idea *thumbs up*

But the article gets too big. Some suggestions:

- if there is a suitable wiki entry then link instead of providing redudant information (for example the pacman article)

- split the article in useful parts, for example create an articel "software tips" (or similar) and move "Useful applications" to this article, or multimedia issues

- what I'd like to see, was a section dealing with HAL, ivman and all his "modern" stuff which is interesting for many users (I don't use this so I cant't contribute) in a more detailed way

first thoughts,

hightower

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#7 2007-01-22 02:38:22

scarney
Member
From: Wisconsin, US
Registered: 2006-07-11
Posts: 173

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

really nice!. this will no doubt, be one of the most hit wiki pages. thanks!

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#8 2007-01-22 08:57:00

murkus
Member
From: Europe/Helsinki
Registered: 2004-03-19
Posts: 254

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

I didn't read it through but by just quick glance gave me an impression that it is a good source of info for people new to arch.  Good thing that it's linked from the first page of the wiki.

Thumbs up!

.murkus

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#9 2007-01-22 09:12:04

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

article is too big. provide links to existing wiki pages and documentation. If things change and you dont know, your article will be broken.

For example, change the install documentation to the install guide. Same goes for network, link to existing pages, and if there isnt one, create one.

Some of it seems a bit overkill too, you give a newbie style how to for tiny things, but completely gloss over even a basic description of what the "daemons line" is. Newbies using this beginners guide learn bugger all, as they just copy from the beginner guide. When things go wrong, they come to the forums rather than use initiative. I guess the installation and configuration acts as a form of natural selection.

Things like:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arc … or_newbies
and a better FAQ, would be more useful than yet another blow by blow install tutorial that falls out of date in 6 months.

James

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#10 2007-01-22 10:24:52

arooaroo
Member
From: London, UK
Registered: 2005-01-13
Posts: 1,268
Website

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

iphitus wrote:

article is too big. provide links to existing wiki pages and documentation. If things change and you dont know, your article will be broken.

There are clearly pros and cons with this. I think the OP is suggesting that navigating through the wiki isn't the ideal way to get a good overview of the install process. Having something in one page (which is printable) is very handy during the install process. Also, as this is for beginners, there's a possability that many of the pages contain far more information than is required just to get started.

That said, you're right, it's opening up the wiki to duplicate work.

Overall - unless there's a way of constructing wiki pages by merging contents of existing pages, I reckon freigeist's approach is the best. At least it'll be more dynamic than the rather static install guide on the AL front-page.

A compromise could be to always link to the individual wiki page at the end of each section so that the reader could investigate that topic further.

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#11 2007-01-22 14:12:18

Sekre
Member
From: The Rainy North
Registered: 2006-11-24
Posts: 116

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

Looked really good freigeist !

Regarding layout etc,
I kinda agree with arooaroo on this. The way it is now would be great for beginners imo. And like arooaroo said, using links at the end of each section would prove a good thing I think. Since too much information is scary for the beginner.

As a beginner I like to have short relevant information to get something started, with an extra link to something with more info. Having it all at once is hard to comprehend if you are totally new to something and need it up and running. Like xorg for example.

But some fine tuning to this one and it would be really great imo big_smile

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#12 2007-01-22 18:50:32

freigeist
Member
From: Cologne, Germany
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 191

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

iphitus wrote:

article is too big. provide links to existing wiki pages and documentation. If things change and you dont know, your article will be broken.

Sure...but you will have this problem with all wiki pages. If you don't have a maintainer for bigger articles, the whole idea of the wiki won't work well.

iphitus wrote:

For example, change the install documentation to the install guide. Same goes for network, link to existing pages, and if there isnt one, create one.

I disagree with this one. I personally like the idea of having one basic guide which will led in most cases to a fully working system and does not stop right after the installation, which will leave you with a single prompt. I tried to explain the "basic things" and give links for digging deeper (I may have failed at this, but I tried and will try again).
Therefore you are right about linking, but as you may have seen I tried to link to existing pages if they exist and give more than just a basic information. As far as I know no install guide for voodoo exists yet.

What I really don't want to do, is to create just a meta page that only links to other pages, for three reasons:
* It's annoying to read if you have to follow a link, get back and follow the next link...

* Because there is no single maintainer for all the sub pages, you can only link to pages that are known stable, otherwise the beginner will be totally lost fast

* Some of the other pages are way too technically for a beginner, they quickly start with special things for exotic purposes (mainly because experienced people don't like writing about basic things I believe)

iphitus wrote:

Some of it seems a bit overkill too, you give a newbie style how to for tiny things, but completely gloss over even a basic description of what the "daemons line" is. Newbies using this beginners guide learn bugger all, as they just copy from the beginner guide. When things go wrong, they come to the forums rather than use initiative. I guess the installation and configuration acts as a form of natural selection.

I think we have a different opinion how a wiki works, I always thought you start with something and improve it over time, when questions or suggestions arrive.
A wiki will get better if more than one people is involved, therefore sharing and discussing at an early point of time is reasonable.

On the other hand you are absolutely right about the daemons line, which should be explained for a beginner (EDIT: I added a paragraph about daemons a few moments ago).

But I think differently about the natural selection. I never felt that Arch Linux aims to be an elitist distribution and that an acceptance test is needed if you want to use it...what I have seen from the community so far, Arch seems in fact to be the opposite. I like Arch for being clean, simple and logical constructed, not for being complicated. I'm too old to get     self-confidence just from installing an operating system.

If users use the forum to ask the same questions again and again, our beginners guide is incomplete and we should fix it.

iphitus wrote:

Things like:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arc … or_newbies
and a better FAQ, would be more useful than yet another blow by blow install tutorial that falls out of date in 6 months.
James

This may not be representative, but a better FAQ and Jargon for Newbies (damn, I really love this elite attitude wink) wouldn't helped him:

Someone at my blog wrote:

Thanks for the guide! I tried installing Arch over Christmas and had the worst time trying to figure that out. So I of course went back to my trusty Gentoo. I always liked Gentoo because even though its an "advanced distro" they provide you with plenty of documentation. Arch on the other hand does not and that really bothered me. But now that I have a Gentoo style guide, I think I'll try it again!

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your criticism because it makes me think twice about some things and will most probably lead to a better guide.


Elfenbeinturm.cc
a metaphysical space of solitude and sanctity: http://www.elfenbeinturm.cc

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#13 2007-01-23 07:27:17

freigeist
Member
From: Cologne, Germany
Registered: 2006-07-14
Posts: 191

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

iphitus made some good points which indeed made me think twice. While I still believe that the idea of a beginners guide is good, I think I have already gone too far. Therefore I made some suggestions about what the principles for this guide should be:

Big picture:
Show the reader how Arch Linux works, how to install and configure it, how to avoid pitfalls and where to get additional information. Explain only one common road that leads to a working system, mention alternatives but don't go in depth for them.

- Keep focused on the big picture (see above)
- Be precise
- Link to additional information sources if they are useful
- Avoid redundance if possible, while keeping the guide useful without additional sources (create useful extracts of additional sources if necessary)
- Don't forget that the target is a Arch Linux beginner not someone stupid (e.g. showing how to install a program once is enough)
- Keep it simple, mention additional roads but make some useful pre-decisions

These principles require that "we (I) have to make some big decisions" (love that sentence by Bob Ross in Art of painting...:)). Just to make it clear what this means, I will try to show the road to a (just an example) full working gnome system with totem-xine, thunderbird and firefox, as well as quod libet and brasero. I will mention that kde, *box, xfce, mutt, ... exist but won't explain how to install and configure them but instead link to other pages if possible. This may lead quickly to a big discussion about what decision we (I) make, cause everyone may have own preferences which applications are the best.
However when a beginner already knows that he want to use an alternative, he is no beginner at all and the basics of Arch Linux plus the explanation of the "common road" should enable him to do this on his own.

Additionally I will explain only once how to install programs with pacman. I add another section which covers the absolutely needed basics (pacman, rc.conf (modules, daemons, basic network...).

What do you think?


Elfenbeinturm.cc
a metaphysical space of solitude and sanctity: http://www.elfenbeinturm.cc

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#14 2007-01-23 07:31:27

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

You're doing good, and thinking about things critically is the absolute best thing you can do.

Overall, I think you want to balance everything. It might be good to link to all relevant pages, so its sort of like an annotated table of contents into the wiki, but also try to make it inclusive without duplicating too much work. That's impossible, yes, but the key isn't to be perfect, just balanced. smile

Dusty

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#15 2007-01-30 19:45:07

tafsen
Member
Registered: 2006-05-03
Posts: 141

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

What about mentioning the Kdemod as an option to KDE?

Kdemod was exactly what I was looking for, but I didn't find before after I'd installed KDE.

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#16 2007-02-12 16:07:40

TSP
Member
Registered: 2007-01-11
Posts: 22

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

I use it and it's great! many thanks!

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#17 2007-02-12 16:27:15

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

I actually agree with the "one big page" thing in this case.  Like the install guide, I think people might actually print this out, or read it top to bottom.  I think this is one of the cases where the psychology of a single big page works better than a page full of links.

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#18 2007-02-12 16:42:37

Mikko777
Member
From: Suomi, Finland
Registered: 2006-10-30
Posts: 837

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

Freigeist made lots of newbies happy with this, I think this is great as longs as its an overview and not a 1000 page manual smile

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#19 2007-02-15 22:59:15

Penguin of Wonder
Member
From: West Virginia
Registered: 2007-01-25
Posts: 16
Website

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

I actually looked at it once or twice while installing Arch. Its nice but like several people have already mentioned there is a lot there that should really be better focused on somewhere else. For example the part about equivalent packages is great but that doesn't really have anything to do with getting Arch setup. Thats more of a general Linux question and deserves its own page if it doesn't already have one.


[http://steveno.wordpress.com/]My Blog[/url]

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#20 2007-02-16 10:54:31

madeye
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2006-07-19
Posts: 331
Website

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

Good job freigeist.
This is an excellent guide for a user who wants to make a first time install of arch linux.

That everything is in a single page is a big plus for me, as I like to have these things on paper and close to hand when I do the install.
I could of course read it on my other computer while installing, but there are people with only a single computer and they wouldn't be able to read the guide online while installing.


MadEye | Registered Linux user #167944 since 2000-02-28 | Homepage

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#21 2007-02-22 19:04:41

Seleven
Member
Registered: 2007-02-18
Posts: 11

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

This helped very much. I had no problem with my install using this last week. Thank you.

However, there wasn't enough info for me to feel comfortable installing cpufrequtils.

Alter min_freq and max_freq to match your systems cpu spec. Add the frequency scaling modules to your /etc/rc.conf modules line (e.g. speedstep_centrino for Pentium M processors or powernow-k8 for the Athlon 64).

I don't know what my systems cpu min_freq, max_freq is, and don't know where to find it. Also, I don't know which frequency scaling modules ito load, or where to find out.

Mine is a desktop however, so although it would have been neat to do this, I didn't sweat it.

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#22 2007-02-22 19:38:34

Snowman
Developer/Forum Fellow
From: Montreal, Canada
Registered: 2004-08-20
Posts: 5,212

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

Seleven wrote:

I don't know what my systems cpu min_freq, max_freq is, and don't know where to find it.

Run  cpufreq-info to get that information. You can add that to the wiki.

If you have more questions about cpufrequtils, start a new thread.

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#23 2007-08-29 01:50:04

ruscook
Member
From: Sydney Australia
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 105
Website

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

Thanks, as a newbie I'll definitely be using this!

Russ

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#24 2007-08-29 17:18:32

Cogar
Member
Registered: 2007-07-22
Posts: 43

Re: Arch Linux Beginners Guide

Let me chime in with the others that having the information on one page is quite helpful. If you do not have a second system, you need it written in one place for the installation.

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