Arch Linux logo concept

foxbunny · 2007-10-28 15:49:45

As for the LiveCD, the points made by pde are not irrational, but are disputable. We could go on for ages, and it all boils down to whether I (or him, or you) wold use it or not. I'm not the first one to have suggested a graphics LiveCD. Lots of Scribus community members also asked for it, and there were at least two attempts to create a SUSE-based LiveCD (which is imho, something that pde's arguments would apply to perfectly).

Also, cerise, he did not say 'agree on the design'. He said 'getting feedback on the forums'. If we are not to get feedback from the community we are contributing to, where are we to get feedback from? From the very beginning, I started with a notion that this was a contribution from the community members to it's core development team. It maybe not a standard practice elsewhere, but I believe that it is the PERFECT solution for a community project.

While I can appreciate the merits of someone new to design wishing to get feedback on forums, professional designers should just be submitting their work.

So, does that mean that a professional designer should keep to himself when contributing to a community project? Is that what makes him/her professional?

Also, this:

Personally, I don't want to see post-after-post of justification of why one person thinks their design is the best. Really, I have seen almost no evolutions of designs due to discussions created on this thread.

Designers who *participated* did not evolve their designs as a result of participation in debates? And yet, since pde himself pointed out that if everyone was involved in creation of the artwork, the design would be poor, wouldn't it be more logical that some of the suggestions are simply ignored if the artist decides it is not a good suggestion? That isn't contradictory?

However, the LEAST constructive of his comments what the totally distorted vision of what we are doing here:

Well, I bring it up because the post seem to reflect the idea that people see a logo redesign as scarcely more than slapping a piece of clipart here and there on backgrounds, splash screens, whatever.

Is this the way you see it as well? Are we just 'slapping pieces of clipart' on something, or are we super-serious about this?

foxbunny · 2007-10-28 15:55:22

@ari_dbx

http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php? … 75#p293875

Here are more traditional (and simpler, I guess) shuriken designs:

foxbunny · 2007-10-28 16:15:24

For those that don't know what pde, cerise, and I are talking about (or trying at least)

AFAIK, this is how it's done in the corporate arena:

1. you do a market research about the product you want to launch/rebrand

This involves surveys carried out via telephones, direct contact, whatever. Demographics data is also collected. Then there are focus groups, etc. Now you have (depending on your budget) a very accurate profile of the target audience.

2. define goals of product design, graphical identity designs, advertising campaigns, etc. based on the profile

This is done by whole teams of people, coordinated by the so-called 'decision makers'.

3. graphical identity is usually done by one person or one studio chosen by the company

But it is not arbitrary. It is carefully tailored according to the goals defined in step 2, and profiles collected in step 1.

Now, this whole mix of product design, packaging, logos, memos, cards, and all that is usually summed up in one ore more books that serve as a bible to anyone who wants to use any part of the whole package. A distributor of SAMSUNG products, for example, MUST send all their advertising material to a dedicated HQ for their region, where they are scrutinized and compared to their 'Imagine' campaign book of standards.

The book itself defines not only how the logo should look, but where it must be placed, what colors can be used in the artwork in which the logo is used, what the envelopes should look like, what kind of people must appear on the advertising material, all the way to such items as: where is SAMSUNG on the market compared to other brands, what does SAMSUNG's colors MEAN... etc. Those are very strictly regulated items, and you cannot publish anything if it doesn't comply with what the book says.

What can realistically be done for Arch? The logo itself can be designed well. There is no doubt about it. There are good designers within this community and I don't see a problem. The developers will chose one of the logos, and we can only pray they choose a good one. After that, we can rebrand the whole product, website, and lots of the stuff that carry the Arch logo - something that is already being discussed. We can also create a book of standards, and create a portal that will in one way or another regulated the graphical part of the brand. That is what I think is realistic atm.

kanim · 2007-10-28 16:31:58

Maybe you are stuck on the term LiveCD. Call it an 'Arch for artists edition install/live CD'.

i still don´t like it, it does not fit to the idea of arch

cerise · 2007-10-28 16:35:47

foxbunny wrote:

So, does that mean that a professional designer should keep to himself when contributing to a community project? Is that what makes him/her professional?
Designers who *participated* did not evolve their designs as a result of participation in debates? And yet, since pde himself pointed out that if everyone was involved in creation of the artwork, the design would be poor, wouldn't it be more logical that some of the suggestions are simply ignored if the artist decides it is not a good suggestion? That isn't contradictory?
However, the LEAST constructive of his comments what the totally distorted vision of what we are doing here:
Is this the way you see it as well? Are we just 'slapping pieces of clipart' on something, or are we super-serious about this?

<snip, snip snip>
This is what I meant before. The quotes you are using are out-of-context of the message, and are the crux of the problem that I see you having with pde's comments. If you only read the small snippets of text that you quoted, then the point of the posts are lost. Also, pdexperiment's comments have been careful (that I've seen) to avoid absolute statements -- which it looks like, perhaps, that you may be overlooking. Pdexperiment has not said that 'all' designs are as you've stated, nor 'all' people, nor 'all' of anything -- which I think is the point of contention.

As I look back over pde's posts, I can't see what you're actually arguing. If I condense pde's comments to only picking out a single line or two, then maybe I see what you seem to have an issue with.

It honestly just reads like a constructive criticism that I've gotten before from executives or VCs (ha! and their accountants!) regarding how things can have longevity issues. That's all I see it as, just some extended predictions based on some ideas being discussed here.

That's why I don't have a problem with anything pdexperiment626 says -- whether I agree or not. It's honest feedback from someone. I think that's what this thread is about.

Can we get back to designs now? Pretty please? With sugar on top?

TheBodziO · 2007-10-28 16:44:57

foxbunny wrote:

@TheBodziO
Please take the discussion here: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=39177
There are more interested people.

I'm happy that you've started a thread about the topic! Many thanks for the tip! I'll surely take a share in the discussion as time allow.

foxbunny · 2007-10-28 16:55:03

Okay.

TheBodziO · 2007-10-28 17:55:23

I think that discussion on current thread both gained temperature and deviated from topic . Perhaps it is a good time for me to speak my mind on the issues presented recently.

I think that a new live cd is a good idea. A new project in a community based area is always a good thing. If it prooves useful, if it'll fill the gap of some sort, finally if it catches up - good. If not... well... it'll just be abandoned. There's little to no risk as the potential project is totally voluntary. You like the idea? You want to contribute? OK! You don't? OK too.

What's the point in having live cd's?
In my opinion there are two main reasons for having so many live cd's around: to pack useful tools for specific task or to demonstrate the tools to potential users. There's for example TRK (Trinity's...) in the first group. The second is filled by projects like ubuntustudio. I don't consider this latter distros as every-day work means. I consider them as mere demonstrations that may or not convince people to investigate further. That's it.

Pros and amateurs.
What's the real difference? Professional is a man that earns financial profits out of his/hers work. Amateur does the same job without earning money. He does it because he wants to. The first is compelled to spend more time on doing the job that was assigned to him, thus gaining experience and becoming a better craftsmen (potentially of course). Statistically a pro is available to produce a better result than an amateur (considering time they can invest in work). But that's just the statistic! I belive that amateur devoted to his hobby is able to perform much better than many pros. In my opinion the whole division between professionals and amateurs, also between professional creations and amateur creations, is simply a matter of a lack of a better words and a matter of statistic.

A community creating a logo for themself.
As far as I can tell after watching this thread the community wasn't working on one specific design. It was rather attempting to create a guidelines for creation of one. Is it different from a company's attempt to create a logo? The company also have to state its goals, its profile and suggestions. Without it how one would be able to create a sign that represents whole firm or community? According to the personal views and suggestions a couple of designs were created that are lined up for judgement. I don't see anything unusual in that. I think it's rather straightforward. In the end the resulting logo, or rather visual identification will be a creation of a one person only.

These are my pesonal views. I was trying to state them with most respect to beliefs of each disputant of this forum.

Also if I may do so I want to encourage everyone interrested in discussion about designers community's part in development of gnu/linux (oss in general) designers tools to join the thread http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=39177.

iphitus · 2007-10-29 00:38:31

kanim wrote:

Maybe you are stuck on the term LiveCD. Call it an 'Arch for artists edition install/live CD'.
i still don´t like it, it does not fit to the idea of arch

Do you know what an install CD is? It's a liveCD. All install CD's are liveCD's. For the new installer, we're writing better liveCD scripts that are more general: http://projects.archlinux.org/git/?p=ar … ;a=summary

And LiveCD's fit Arch completely. Arch is designed to be configured to any use, however you wish to use it. And people do, see kdemod and the various other liveCDs. Contrary to belief, a liveCD needs negligable customisation.

Spinoff liveCD's have been done before. They're also remarkably easy to create. They generally use the latest packages from the repo for almost everything, so they're not even a 'fork' in that respect, just another distribution with a custom package set. Most liveCD's have a handful of custom packages, but nothing significant.

Nothing here was ever said that suggested a designer liveCD would use developer's time anyway, so I don't see reason for concern. If foxbunny wants to make one (and he could within an hour), then he's free to.

James

cactus · 2007-10-29 05:51:08

*bangs his shoe on the podium*
Back on topic people.

I wound find it quite distressing to have to lock a topic about our logo.

pedepy · 2007-10-29 14:57:01

well you guys should just go ahead and vote already then, otherwise "factions" will emerge and arch will end up with dozens of unofficial logos floating around that wont go away if they linger around here for too long.

Sigi · 2007-10-29 15:08:13

pedepy, read the logo contest announcement again please.

edit: I'm refering to this part

Announcement wrote:

Submit completed submission sheet attached in an email to travis AT archlinux.org. They will be posted in this thread; two weeks after the date of this post, we will collect all submissions in that thread and judge.

Last edited by Sigi (2007-10-29 15:09:57)

pedepy · 2007-10-29 15:10:43

maybe later

freigeist · 2007-10-29 16:00:53

I thought it would be a good idea to write down some of my PERSONAL opinions about the proposed ideas. Beware that these are only my thoughts and no personal offense! Let's discuss it

Comment:
Professional looking, nice and unique colors, don't like the "reflection". Overall the logo is a bit to menacingly.

Comment:
Looks a bit too kanji for me and I don't like the A-idea

Comment:
Nice idea, funny with potential for a unique logo, but a bit too handmade at the moment

Comment:
I don't like this logo because it reminds me on nothing else than a 1337 power supply grill

Comment:
Really nice one, unique color, good idea, big potential for public relations

Comment:
I don't think the @-idea leads to something, the pacman inside is nice but a bit to expected.

Comment:
Very nice penguin, great design, but a penguin is too expected for a linux distribution, the small sizes looks like a chess figure and indeed, the penguin looks a bit arrogant

Comment:
I love this one, simple, only a few colors, unique, dynamic...my personal favorite. I also love the clean cd sample layout.

Comment:
Dynamic design, but I have some problems with the perspective and the blue arch looks like a muffler in the wind. I really dislike the font and fonttype

Comment:
Professional design, reminds me on a road but it's a bit boring and too many gradients are used.

Comment:
Too much comic style, too kittenish, definitively not my favorite

Comment:
Again a professional looking logo with too many gradients but a unique idea. Doesn't match very good for a generic logo but a great idea for a PR campain

Comment:
Last not least, good looking, obvious but nice idea, don't like the reflections, has some potential

foxbunny · 2007-10-29 16:15:05

The MM's puzzle one reminds me of MS Office.

Remember this?

Last edited by foxbunny (2007-10-29 16:47:06)

afonic · 2007-10-29 16:33:01

http://www.elfenbeinturm.cc/wp-content/ … inux/1.png

This one is my favorite one, actually using the GDM theme and a wallpaper since I saw it!

Forgive me if I didn't read up (23 pages are MUCH!) but you are saying only the devs will vote. While I do trust their judgment, it would be nice to create a poll thread in the forum as well to let the users vote and get the winner of that poll an extra +1 in the vote process.

foxbunny · 2007-10-29 16:43:33

No. Even the number of devs is too large to yield a result that everyone among the dev team is happy with, let alone everyone in the community.

afonic · 2007-10-29 18:12:50

What do you mean happy with?

What I said above is just a way to let community have a small part into selecting the new logo.

ari_dbx · 2007-10-29 19:24:07

foxbunny wrote:

@ari_dbx
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php? … 75#p293875
Here are more traditional (and simpler, I guess) shuriken designs:
http://vero84.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/shuriken.jpg

thanks ^^

I change the idea though, http://www2.udec.cl/~ariromerog/carpeta … ission.png

anyway, someone could take the shuriken idea, they're simple, fast and lethal

mienensuchkind · 2007-10-29 19:43:38

http://www.elfenbeinturm.cc/wp-content/ … nux/12.png
Comment:
Again a professional looking logo with too many gradients but a unique idea. Doesn't match very good for a generic logo but a great idea for a PR campain
http://www.elfenbeinturm.cc/wp-content/ … nux/13.png
Comment:
Last not least, good looking, obvious but nice idea, don't like the reflections, has some potential

I agree that it may look a little to candy - but these two are leading my personal top new logos in spé - each points out an important part of AL - modularity and pacman.

@bunny: I think you cant really compare the puzzle logo with the ugly old office logo its just to nice

@ari_dbx: that one is great! It reminds me of my ski-holidays im looking forward to

foxbunny · 2007-10-29 19:45:00

outch, ari, you just created an *ARK* Linux logo

@afonic
Community had a great part in *creating* the logo, and I think the devs, who devoted most of the time to creating Arch Linux, should have a say on what's it gonna be.

F · 2007-10-29 19:48:14

Guys, seriously, i just checked out the Logo thread that's locked with all the submissions, and DAMN they ALL look so freaking good.

Can we have them all? Lets pull an oink.me.uk and let the user choose their own logo. Seriously, I'm just glad i'm not a judge because I'd have way too hard of a time picking out a single one. Good job, all.

Cerebral · 2007-10-29 19:57:11

F wrote:

Guys, seriously, i just checked out the Logo thread that's locked with all the submissions, and DAMN they ALL look so freaking good

And we're not even half-done the time limit yet - I still have... 4-5 more to put up later tonight in my inbox.

ari_dbx · 2007-10-29 20:03:31

foxbunny wrote:

outch, ari, you just created an *ARK* Linux logo
@afonic
Community had a great part in *creating* the logo, and I think the devs, who devoted most of the time to creating Arch Linux, should have a say on what's it gonna be.

??? would you mind to explain me that please?

Last edited by ari_dbx (2007-10-29 20:04:37)

xdeusx · 2007-10-29 20:40:06

thats my favorite, even though there are several good ones

Arch Linux

#551 2007-10-28 15:49:45

Re: Arch Linux logo concept

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Re: Arch Linux logo concept

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Re: Arch Linux logo concept

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Re: Arch Linux logo concept

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