converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

soniX · 2004-06-05 02:13:47

hi,

a friend of mine is trying out gentoo these days, so I had a look at their portage system.
The ebuild files looks pretty similar to the PKGBUILDs abs is using(only a bit more messy), and so I came up with an idea.

why not write a program that reads ebuild files and returns a PKBUILD files !

the portage tree got a hole lot of programs that arch dont have (and probably dont need either), but beeing able to convert the ebuilds would at least give people access to more packages without "bothering" the great people maintaining the packages already in the arch repositories..

I want to take a shot at writing this, but before I really begin I would like your oppinion on the matter. If you think this is a stupid idea I will spend my time writing something else (hopefully something for arch) as this will probably take some time to complete

and in the same thread I might as well ask if anyone has any other ideas for applications that could be usefull for arch ?

if anyone would be interrested in joining the potencial project, my language of choice is Java

thanx in advance for feedback

soniX

sarah31 · 2004-06-05 02:22:36

this has actually come up alot on irc before. i think the general consensus by most developers is that the differences are just too many that it would be difficult to design and app that would quickly and accurately convert an ebuild to a PKGBUILD. ebuilds are designed with direct installs in mind and the patching system is different (it is actually getting hard to get unrestricted access to many support build files that would be needed to convert as well).

and getting back with patching gentoo ebuild writers often throw alot of unnecessary patches into their builds. while these may fix certain issues ion many situations they customize the source in ways that maintainers with arch would actually be breaking certain packaging policies.

i know alot of people like this idea but to have it as a officially support application is very risky ... all imo.

tehdely · 2004-06-05 02:30:20

Portage unfortunately has a language of its own, and has automated tools for doing many things we do by hand. I have converted several ebuilds to PKGBUILDS in the past (and am working on two at the moment) but I don't foresee any way in the future that it will not be a manual process. It's not especially difficult, either, but the logistics of making an auto-conversion program would be major, and the generated PKGBUILDS would probably not be so hot either.

sarah31 · 2004-06-05 02:40:49

actually i think it is harder now to understand ebuilds than when I was package maintaine rfor arch. the ebuild for Openoffice was of great assistance to me when i spent a week or more writing the first arch package and patches. by the time i last built OOo ebuilds were virtually useless in helping out (and with other packages too)

now if you wanted an easy convertion tool you could probably write one for converting crux's Pkgfiles to PKGBUILDs without much trouble (the packaging systems are VERY similar)

Dusty · 2004-06-05 03:10:56

Search the forum for an earlier discussion on this. The consensus was that it would be too difficult, but you're welcome to prove everyone wrong.

sarah31 · 2004-06-05 04:42:51

gah look at Dusty's post count! it's the number of the beast! (or at least was)

Xentac · 2004-06-05 05:09:38

sarah31 wrote:

gah look at Dusty's post count! it's the number of the beast! (or at least was)

It's a phase... everyone has to go through it... though, us old timers may be too old to remember such days...

mavric · 2004-06-05 05:17:47

Great Idea!
Although an ebuild converter seems unlikely, I'd still look forward to a crux pkgfile converter. Hopefully others feel the same way.

Dusty · 2004-06-05 15:03:20

Frankly, if I wanted to use crux packages, I'd use Crux. ditto for gentoo. I like ABS for all two of the packages I use that aren't in current or extra.

Did I miss something about numbers? I've been posting too much off topic.

soniX · 2004-06-05 15:47:43

thanx for the comments everyone... this was exactly why i started this thread.

ebuild converter seems like a pretty huge task, and probably too big and complex for now, and crux didnt really have that many packages that arch dont have, so its seems kinda meaningless to write that. (and I got the impression that crux pkgfiles didnt have a field for dependency, which would make the hole thing collide with abs/pacman).

well well... seems like I will have to come up with some other idea...

I really feel like writing some code. ideas anyone ?

Dusty · 2004-06-05 16:07:57

soniX wrote:

I really feel like writing some code. ideas anyone ?

Perfect! Somebody willing to code a window manager that's even better than ion.

Dusty

soniX · 2004-06-05 16:56:07

Dusty, I found you at the JD4X contributor list. how is that project doing ? could that be a good base for creating a wm/dm for arch, or is it a shot in the dark ?

Haakon · 2004-06-05 17:40:15

soniX wrote:

I really feel like writing some code. ideas anyone ?

How about a GUI Pacman? *ducks*

soniX · 2004-06-05 19:46:34

he he...
after the warm welcome given to the gui-pacman, I think i will stay far far away from writing graphical interaces for already existing CLI tools..

Dusty · 2004-06-05 20:07:20

soniX wrote:

Dusty, I found you at the JD4X contributor list. how is that project doing ? could that be a good base for creating a wm/dm for arch, or is it a shot in the dark ?

Its a really good project. I'd probably be knee deep in it by now if I hadn't suddenly lost interest in Java. But that is a problem

Search the forum for another topic on this, We had a huge discussion, aCoder, punkrockguy, rasat, and I had a lot of ideas.

If you're interested in Python (you should be :-D), we discussed pywm and plwm. But I don't remember which one we liked best... :-D

also, punkrockguy started on ADM, arch display manager, there's another forum dedicated to that (I don't have the link... rasat?). you might want to work on that, since he's looking for a programming position that pays now.

Dusty

soniX · 2004-06-05 21:33:13

i'll try to find the threads... if python is the language everyone agrees on, im more than willing to learn it.

i think i found the forum http://bliss-solutions.org/archlinux/pr … /index.php but it doesnt seem very active.

im done with my bachelor in a couple of days, so I have plenty of time to spend on a project like this.

do you have any good urls for learning python/display-manager-theory so I could get started ?
any good IDEs ? (preferrable an eclipse-plugin)

btw, have you tried jython ? if its usable, the JD4X could still be interessting.

Dusty · 2004-06-05 21:54:43

yep, that's the forum. It isn't active right now, cause even I didn't remember the link.

Python has the perfect tutorial at python.org. If you're used to Java it will seem strange for an hour or so, but I swear it is worth getting to know. Python is how it feels to program naturally instead of trying to fit in with silly syntax constructs.

I have no idea what URLs are good for interacting it with X as in a window manager or a good toolkit, but I'm sure dmoz or google will supply answers. I do know that TK is the default python toolkit, but pyGTK is probably better and wxWindows is probably better yet again. (Search for Eric Raymond Python wxWindows to get his quote :-D)

I've heard of Jython and I used it in Jedit a tiny bit. Seems to work, but I've switched to vim and python interpretter.

Congrats on finishing your bachelors! I've still got a couple project courses to do but I'm too busy working for my profs for money instead. :-D
Dusty

soniX · 2004-06-05 23:28:16

hey, I just took 5 minutes looking at the python.org tutorial and tried the "python as a calculator ++" newbie stuff... this is actually fun... I think im gonna like this too...

a couple of days im ready to start learning python for real...

the only thing i dont like is the stupid use of __underscores__, but i probably get used to it. the indentetion-stuff im ok with, cause thats how i write all my java-code anyway...

yeah... im really looking forward to this...

Xentac · 2004-06-05 23:49:01

Underscores are just used for builtin variables... most code you use won't need to use them at all.

GuyonAsm · 2004-06-06 00:13:58

Seriously, I wouldn't mind manually converting ebuilds over to PKGBUILDs. In my spare time. Do a couple a day.

Dusty · 2004-06-06 12:34:00

On the off-topic subject of Python: I rarely use underscores, although if I remember the "classes" section of the tutorial, you can use them for semi-private variables. But more or less, private variables aren't really a Python thing.

GuyonAsm wrote:

Seriously, I wouldn't mind manually converting ebuilds over to PKGBUILDs. In my spare time. Do a couple a day.

Wow, back on topic.

To do it by hand, go for it, I suggest only bothering with packages you or somebody else is interested in, because we want to keep things small and simple at Arch. Also, we're at a cross-roads right now as to how to submit packages; they're working on a new system (I expect you've heard that, its been splashed all over the place) but it isn't ready yet (I expect you've heard that too!)

Dusty

GuyonAsm · 2004-06-06 17:06:52

Is there some sort of list with wanted packages? If not, could you guys ever consider compiling such?

Dusty · 2004-06-06 21:00:13

Nothing formal, just the Requested Packages forum.

Arch Linux

#1 2004-06-05 02:13:47

converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#2 2004-06-05 02:22:36

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#3 2004-06-05 02:30:20

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#4 2004-06-05 02:40:49

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#5 2004-06-05 03:10:56

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#6 2004-06-05 04:42:51

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#7 2004-06-05 05:09:38

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#8 2004-06-05 05:17:47

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#9 2004-06-05 15:03:20

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#10 2004-06-05 15:47:43

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#11 2004-06-05 16:07:57

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#12 2004-06-05 16:56:07

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#13 2004-06-05 17:40:15

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#14 2004-06-05 19:46:34

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#15 2004-06-05 20:07:20

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#16 2004-06-05 21:33:13

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#17 2004-06-05 21:54:43

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#18 2004-06-05 23:28:16

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#19 2004-06-05 23:49:01

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#20 2004-06-06 00:13:58

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#21 2004-06-06 12:34:00

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#22 2004-06-06 17:06:52

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

#23 2004-06-06 21:00:13

Re: converting ebuilds to abs ; whats your thougth on the idea ?

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