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#1 2004-06-09 13:54:17

skoal
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From: Frequent Flyer Underworld
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 612
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Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

Yes, XFCE4 is my idea of heaven.  I've heard all the hype about XFCE4 in these forums, and always thought I was smarter than the rest of you by sticking to Gnome or ICEwm.

After my 'ole buddies ICEwm and Gnome let me down, I installed XFCE4 and all the plugins.  I've used XFCE in the past, but the latest is something else.  My observations:

1. Man, this Desktop really smokes with responsiveness (and as every bit fast as just running a WM like ICE). 

2. This desktop gives a new definition to customization, and ease of it.  I've got my panel turned vertical with all the plugins (like monitors and weather) and this looks better than the unstable, un-maintained Gnome gapplets I tried in the past.

3. It looks like the themes used in Gnome are completely portable with XFCE4.  When I browsed the themes, I saw most (if not all) the Gnomes themes listed in XFCE4.  Sweeeeet...

* Maybe after a week or two the glamour will fade, and I'll be looking for another desktop mistress.  Until then, I'll see what else I can do with this lady.  Funny thing is...as of late, while staring at XFCE4 and sipping from my bottle of Shiner Bock, even the beer tastes fresher now.  That's the power of a good desktop my friend.

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#2 2004-06-09 19:04:24

dp
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From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,366
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Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

:-)

ähmm ... are you sure, you are not under influence of some halucinogenous substances? :-)

i admit that xfce4 is very fast responding, but how will that change the taste of beer?

fluxbox maybe also very interesting for you (it is not that similar to gnome/kde/.. but also responding very nice and is also very lightwighted)


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#3 2004-06-09 19:52:22

jlvsimoes
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From: portugal
Registered: 2002-12-23
Posts: 392
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Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

2 things changed my linux life archlinux and xfce4


-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GU/ d- s: a- C L U P+ L+++ E--- W+
N 0+ K- W-- !O !M V-- PS+ PE- V++ PGP T 5 Z+ R* TV+ B+
DI-- D- G-- e-- h! r++ z+ z*
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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#4 2004-06-09 20:04:56

famavolat
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From: Louisville, KY
Registered: 2003-09-22
Posts: 80
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Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

jlvsimoes wrote:

2 things changed my linux life archlinux and xfce4

I will second that my friend. wink

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#5 2004-06-09 21:37:47

skoal
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From: Frequent Flyer Underworld
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 612
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Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

jlvsimoes wrote:

2 things changed my linux life archlinux and xfce4

Here! Here! I salute you brother...[as i raise my bottle of Shiner Bock in the air]

I never really was much for eye candy, but...with XFCE, you can enjoy the fluff without the bloat.  As soon as the menueditor matures with future releases, I'm sure this desktop will be the standard default for most distro's in the future, and I've tried every WM and desktop out there for linux.  I'm just that impressed with XFCE4.

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#6 2004-06-09 21:46:46

xerxes2
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From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
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Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

That combination is a killer.:D  big_smile 
I use openbox now, do I dare to try xfce4?   :shock:


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#7 2004-06-10 01:21:52

skoal
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From: Frequent Flyer Underworld
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 612
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Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

xerxes2 wrote:

I use openbox now, do I dare to try xfce4?   :shock:

Another thing I really like about XFCE4 is the ability to configure the aliasing characteristics directly.  I just copy over the `xinitrc' file and change the "dpi" and "hinting" values.  I've used fluxbox and openbox and another variant of blackbox, but I don't remember those WM's allowing me to do that.  The "aliasing" was built directly into fluxbox with no variations (only 1 setting), and I can't remember what openbox had.  But XFCE4 handles it even better than Gnome in my opinion.

I left ICEwm recently since they "weave" the aliasing into the WM also, and there is no configuration to turn it off or vary it (that I'm aware of).  The ability to adjust the aliasing in XFCE4 really sits well with my M$ TT fonts too, even better than what I could in Gnome.  All I remember from using aliasing in *box and ICEwm was, "my eyes! my eyes! it burns...oh, it burns..."

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#8 2004-06-10 07:40:38

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
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Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

skoal wrote:

Another thing I really like about XFCE4 is the ability to configure the aliasing characteristics directly.  I just copy over the `xinitrc' file and change the "dpi" and "hinting" values.

I have been struggling with fonts lately, can you maybe start a topic with the info that you have garnished for XFCE ?


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#9 2004-06-10 14:50:53

famavolat
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From: Louisville, KY
Registered: 2003-09-22
Posts: 80
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Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

skoal wrote:

All I remember from using aliasing in *box and ICEwm was, "my eyes! my eyes! it burns...oh, it burns..."

LOL  lol

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#10 2004-06-10 16:21:57

skoal
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From: Frequent Flyer Underworld
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 612
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Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

cactus wrote:

I have been struggling with fonts lately, can you maybe start a topic with the info that you have garnished for XFCE ?

Funny you should mention that, since I was playing with all kinds of combinations last nite.  My eyes are really sensitive, especially to different WM implementations of anti-aliasing.  Here's what you can tinker with:

WHATEVER YOU CHANGE, ONLY CHANGE 1 AT A TIME.  THEN, RESTART X AND SEE THE DIFFERENCE.  DON'T MAKE A LOT OF CHANGES AT ONCE.  SPEND SOME TIME PLAYING WITH THE FOLLOWING COMBINATIONS:

1. First, copy the `xinitrc' file to your home directory, make it executable, and change the "Xft" settings to your liking.

cp /opt/xfce4/etc/xfce4/xinitrc ~/.xfce4/
chmod u+x ~/.xfce4/xinitrc

Then, change the "Xft.[?]" settings in `xinitrc' to your liking.  Mine are shown below.

Xft.dpi: 72
Xft.hinting: 1
Xft.hintstyle: hintnone

* I don't think the "Xft.hintstyle" really makes a difference for some reason.  At least it doesn't show any changes on my system, maybe since I run at a low 72 dpi.  I don't know.

2. The other thing I did was removed the anti-aliasing Xft does for all the fonts.  Anti-aliasing M$ TT fonts really hurts my eyes.  I believe M$ TT fonts just use hinting anyway, so no anti-aliasing is needed for those fonts, and that's all I use on my system.  Of course, the text looks a little "stair-cased" without aliasing, but at least I don't have to pop Aspirin every hour for the headaches caused by the aliasing eyestrain.

Here's what I did (and this is actually unrelated to XFCE4):

In the file `/etc/fonts/local.conf', add the following somewhere between the "<fontconfig>" and "</fontconfig>" keywords.

<match target="font">
    <edit name="antialias" mode="assign">
        <bool>false</bool>
    </edit>
</match>

* That will turn off anti-aliasing completely for all your fonts!  But I like it that way for some reason.

The bottom line is, you can try different combinations with:
1. anti-aliasing (on/off)
2. hinting (on/off)
3. hintstyle (0..3)

That's about 16 different combinations by my count. 

3. Also, just to make life even more interesting, you can play with your Screen "dpi" settings.  I like my screen nice and square, e.g. 72x72 dpi, and that works pretty well with using 75dpi core X fonts too.

Here's what I did in `/etc/X11/XF86Config'.  Add the "DisplaySize" option to your "Monitor" section:

Section "Monitor"
        Identifier   "Monitor0"
        VendorName   "Sony"
        ModelName    "G400"
        HorizSync    30.0 - 107.0
        VertRefresh  48.0 - 120.0
        Option       "dpms"
        DisplaySize  361 270
EndSection

The 361 and 270 are the screen dimensions in Millimeters (mm).  Before, `xdpyinfo' was returning my screen dimensions and resolutions as:

xdpyinfo |grep resolution
resolution:    70x72 dots per inch

xdpyinfo |grep dimensions
dimensions:    1024x768 pixels (372x271 millimeters)

So, I adjusted the numbers for the option "DisplaySize" so that it would give me a nice square 72x72. 

For example, to get the horizontal dimension of 72dpi:

1024 dots * 1 inch/72 dots = 14.2222 inches

which, incidentally, is exactly the horizontal length for my 19" monitor.

14.2222 inches * 2.54 cm/inch = 36.12 cm * 10 mm/cm = 361 mm

You can do the same for the vertical dimensions.

I haven't tried getting a 96x96 dpi setting yet, but that could be done just as easily by changing these numbers and/or running at higher resolutions.  I've found that adjusting the "dpi" settings (as shown above) has had the greatest effect (and benefit) for me.  And, I'm still tinkering...

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#11 2004-06-10 18:15:43

skoal
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From: Frequent Flyer Underworld
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 612
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Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

cactus wrote:

I have been struggling with fonts lately, can you maybe start a topic with the info that you have garnished for XFCE ?

By the way, the MAIN limiting factor for readability, crispness, et al for your fonts is your monitor and the resolution you run it at.

I've heard some in these forums post that "the last distribution I used had better fonts..." or "it looked better before and the same versions and tools are being used now, I don't understand why...".  The basic answer, from my experience, is that the monitor has stayed the same, but people run their resolution at a higher setting than in the past.

Here's some useful information about the limitations your monitor has w.r.t. fonts, crispness, and the maximum resolution your monitor can handle (base on it's dot pich).

(Taken from an article on the web)

Since the dots on most monitors are arranged in equilateral triangles, any given triad is 0.866 of the dot pitch away from any other one, and so the theoretical maximum number of pixels per inch of a .28mm dot pitch monitor of this type is about 105.

You can only use about 75% of the apparent maximum resolution before the image gets fuzzy. So the abovementioned .28mm dot pitch monitor can actually display about 79 pixels per inch.  The canonical pixels-per-inch figure for monitors is 72, corresponding to a .31mm dot pitch.

If you can only display 72 sharp pixels per inch, a "17 inch" monitor with a 12.5 by 9.25 inch viewable area is good for only 900 by 666 really sharp pixels. 800 by 600 will therefore look great, 1024 by 768 will probably be bearably clear and fine detail will be fuzzy if you use higher resolutions.

* Something to think about when you are trying to work with fonts, your display, and how clear it all appears to you.  And, quite frankly, that's why I always set my DPI to 72 and run a resolution close to that number accordingly.

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#12 2004-06-10 19:08:48

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

skoal wrote:

By the way, the MAIN limiting factor for readability, crispness, et al for your fonts is your monitor and the resolution you run it at.

I've heard some in these forums post that "the last distribution I used had better fonts..." or "it looked better before and the same versions and tools are being used now, I don't understand why...".  The basic answer, from my experience, is that the monitor has stayed the same, but people run their resolution at a higher setting than in the past.

Not the case here. I run all my distros at the same resolution on the same 19" true-flat crt monitor. I even use the same DisplaySize (and other info) in the Xconfig file monitor section..

Most of the desktop fonts look ok, but for anything textual or web related (ie openoffice or firefox), the fonts look like hell, and make my eyes bleed! ouch.

I will keep tweaking and hopefully find the magic potion for my setup...
8)

ps..thanks for the hints skoal. I will give them a shot.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#13 2004-06-10 22:05:45

xerxes2
Member
From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
Website

Re: Beer+Tobacco+Czech Supermodel=XFCE4

I'm running XFCE4 now. How can you resist logic like that. big_smile  big_smile


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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