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#101 2008-01-29 13:24:28

patroclo7
Member
From: Bassano del Grappa, ITALY
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 913

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

There is no need for burritos, if people begin to cook burritos I am in fear that, soon or late, someone will force me to eat burritos!


Mortuus in anima, curam gero cutis

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#102 2008-01-31 09:31:10

aRcHaTe
Member
Registered: 2006-10-24
Posts: 644

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

tomk wrote:

wantilles - this initiative comes from the community, not from the Arch development team. Any work that is done to move this forward will be the responsibility of the Arch users who are interested enough to do it, and it will not impact in any way on the current workload and responsibilities of the Arch development team. It will also not influence the underlying philosophy and principles of Arch.

Clear enough?

Im using arch for quite some time now...allways loved it..never other distro has satisfied me as this one...it as allmost everything i want on a distro. But after using for quite some time its becoming really boring having a distro that when it updates it break something quite often...im not talking about core...thats a rock stable for me...but for example community repo and extra...some packages break veryyyyy often...and im not talking about AUR packages and it crossed my mind many times "damm and for ubuntu users everything works all the time"...im not saying nothing against archlinux...man for all i know for me its the best one out there, but it seems developers waist some mutch time on building new packages that some old ones get broken...but i didnt allways complained, in sometime on arch there as been times that everything worked...and it as been the times that they keep up the same packages and enhanced them quite often...i hate to say this but archlinux looks now to me like one big svn-snapshot, and the developers are busting them selfs to make it work....dudes i onely whant the best for the distro i consider it the best....i hate to say this but a stable snapshot...look more and more needed...

Last edited by sickhate (2008-01-31 09:33:13)


Its a sick world we live in....

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#103 2008-01-31 10:04:06

okraits
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2006-03-02
Posts: 140
Website

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

sickhate wrote:

But after using for quite some time its becoming really boring having a distro that when it updates it break something quite often...im not talking about core...thats a rock stable for me...but for example community repo and extra...some packages break veryyyyy often...and im not talking about AUR packages and it crossed my mind many times "damm and for ubuntu users everything works all the time"

May i ask which packages break very often?

I just can't confirm that common packages in core and extra break often - maybe once in a half year. And core and extra are the base of the distro. The community repo is also very important for svn versions or more rare packages, but i don't build my workstation installation to a major degree out of community packages.

Last edited by okraits (2008-01-31 10:10:54)

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#104 2008-01-31 10:13:24

aRcHaTe
Member
Registered: 2006-10-24
Posts: 644

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

okraits wrote:
sickhate wrote:

But after using for quite some time its becoming really boring having a distro that when it updates it break something quite often...im not talking about core...thats a rock stable for me...but for example community repo and extra...some packages break veryyyyy often...and im not talking about AUR packages and it crossed my mind many times "damm and for ubuntu users everything works all the time"

May i ask which packages break very often?

I just can't confirm that common packages in core and extra break often - maybe once in a half year. And core and extra are the base of the distro. The community repo is also very important for svn versions or more rare packages, but i don't build my workstation installation to a major degree out of community packages.

not in core...on community and extra...but yes there are some...elisa for example...png tools...i can some for others..but there are others..and some work but with many bugs...not developers arch fault but as they use allways the latest packages its a problm they face...

if you look into arch forum at Pacman & Package Upgrade Issues you willl see that there are a lot of breaks...i dont think it need a list of broken packages...

Last edited by sickhate (2008-01-31 11:27:38)


Its a sick world we live in....

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#105 2008-01-31 12:11:39

okraits
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2006-03-02
Posts: 140
Website

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

sickhate wrote:

not in core...on community and extra...but yes there are some...elisa for example...png tools...i can some for others..but there are others..and some work but with many bugs...not developers arch fault but as they use allways the latest packages its a problm they face...

if you look into arch forum at Pacman & Package Upgrade Issues you willl see that there are a lot of breaks...i dont think it need a list of broken packages...

Well, as far as i understood, this project at first only contains packages from core, so it doesn't help against issues in extra or community anyway. And about the number of breakages, it's clear that if 5000 people do an update then 5 will have an issue - and they will post it in the forum. But it doesn't always involve widespread packages that a lot of people use and it doesn't happen every week. I'm sorry if it affects you but it simply doesn't happen to everyone and that often.

Last edited by okraits (2008-01-31 12:13:40)

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#106 2008-01-31 13:22:50

aRcHaTe
Member
Registered: 2006-10-24
Posts: 644

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

okraits wrote:
sickhate wrote:

not in core...on community and extra...but yes there are some...elisa for example...png tools...i can some for others..but there are others..and some work but with many bugs...not developers arch fault but as they use allways the latest packages its a problm they face...

if you look into arch forum at Pacman & Package Upgrade Issues you willl see that there are a lot of breaks...i dont think it need a list of broken packages...

Well, as far as i understood, this project at first only contains packages from core, so it doesn't help against issues in extra or community anyway. And about the number of breakages, it's clear that if 5000 people do an update then 5 will have an issue - and they will post it in the forum. But it doesn't always involve widespread packages that a lot of people use and it doesn't happen every week. I'm sorry if it affects you but it simply doesn't happen to everyone and that often.

well i just dont agreed..but thats my opinion..it doesnt make sense that with so many updates using allways the latest updates the distro will be allways stable...im not saying its impossible..im saying the devs just work their butts off..the purpose of  stable realease should be mature, well tested, few bug's, safe, ideal for Servers...with so many updates how could be achived with minuts updates?

Last edited by sickhate (2008-01-31 13:27:44)


Its a sick world we live in....

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#107 2008-01-31 20:47:08

wantilles
Member
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: 2007-03-29
Posts: 327

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

sickhate wrote:

Im using arch for quite some time now...allways loved it..never other distro has satisfied me as this one...it as allmost everything i want on a distro. But after using for quite some time its becoming really boring having a distro that when it updates it break something quite often...im not talking about core...thats a rock stable for me...but for example community repo and extra...some packages break veryyyyy often...and im not talking about AUR packages and it crossed my mind many times "damm and for ubuntu users everything works all the time"...im not saying nothing against archlinux...man for all i know for me its the best one out there, but it seems developers waist some mutch time on building new packages that some old ones get broken...but i didnt allways complained, in sometime on arch there as been times that everything worked...and it as been the times that they keep up the same packages and enhanced them quite often...i hate to say this but archlinux looks now to me like one big svn-snapshot, and the developers are busting them selfs to make it work....dudes i onely whant the best for the distro i consider it the best....i hate to say this but a stable snapshot...look more and more needed...

Arch is unsuitable for you.

Go to Debian Paleolithic instead.

Last edited by wantilles (2008-01-31 20:48:49)

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#108 2008-01-31 21:05:04

aRcHaTe
Member
Registered: 2006-10-24
Posts: 644

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

wantilles wrote:
sickhate wrote:

Im using arch for quite some time now...allways loved it..never other distro has satisfied me as this one...it as allmost everything i want on a distro. But after using for quite some time its becoming really boring having a distro that when it updates it break something quite often...im not talking about core...thats a rock stable for me...but for example community repo and extra...some packages break veryyyyy often...and im not talking about AUR packages and it crossed my mind many times "damm and for ubuntu users everything works all the time"...im not saying nothing against archlinux...man for all i know for me its the best one out there, but it seems developers waist some mutch time on building new packages that some old ones get broken...but i didnt allways complained, in sometime on arch there as been times that everything worked...and it as been the times that they keep up the same packages and enhanced them quite often...i hate to say this but archlinux looks now to me like one big svn-snapshot, and the developers are busting them selfs to make it work....dudes i onely whant the best for the distro i consider it the best....i hate to say this but a stable snapshot...look more and more needed...

Arch is unsuitable for you.

Go to Debian Paleolithic instead.

ya right thats why im using it for 3 yaers now tongue ure absolutly right tongue


Its a sick world we live in....

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#109 2008-02-01 09:27:37

okraits
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2006-03-02
Posts: 140
Website

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

sickhate wrote:

well i just dont agreed..but thats my opinion..it doesnt make sense that with so many updates using allways the latest updates the distro will be allways stable...im not saying its impossible..im saying the devs just work their butts off..the purpose of  stable realease should be mature, well tested, few bug's, safe, ideal for Servers...with so many updates how could be achived with minuts updates?

Well, you can reduce and eliminate bugs only by testing - no matter how often you release updates. And you would also have to include extra and community for the "stable" repo - otherwise you still have the same issues if you assume that core packages are mostly alright and extra and community packages are often broken.

Last edited by okraits (2008-02-01 09:28:23)

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#110 2008-02-01 11:27:56

AndyRTR
Developer
From: Magdeburg/Germany
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 1,640

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

@all: please don't abuse this thread posting your concerns if you don't want to contribute to this project!

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#111 2008-05-21 22:22:02

LTSmash
Member
From: Aguascalientes - Mexico
Registered: 2008-01-02
Posts: 348
Website

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

Well, I would like to help with this proyect a lot, but is there any documentation/goals/servers/work already?


Proud Ex-Arch user.
Still an ArchLinux lover though.

Currently on Kubuntu 9.10

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#112 2008-05-22 03:43:23

ihavenoname
Member
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 198

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

What is the status on this???


In this land of the pain the sane lose not knowing they were part of the game.

~LP

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#113 2008-05-22 08:23:59

Mr.Elendig
#archlinux@freenode channel op
From: The intertubes
Registered: 2004-11-07
Posts: 3,727

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

My magic 8-ball tells me that it will never happen.


Evil #archlinux@freenode channel op and general support dude.
. files on github, Screenshots, Random pics and the rest

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#114 2008-10-24 22:58:28

daf666
Member
Registered: 2007-04-08
Posts: 470
Website

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

Sorry for waking up this zombie thread.., correct me if I am wrong or naive... but I would think that any1 can create an "Arch Stable" for himself at any time..
Lets say I download all of core, extra and community, burn it to a dvd, this dvd along with the installation cd is "Arch Stable", meaning you can install anything u need from the "frozen" repos on the dvd like the traditional non rolling distros..
I guess the flaws can be:
1. no security updates - unless you install them manually
2. after about 6 months the installation might not be upgradeable any more
but still this might be a good solution if some1 just wants a stable server...

Edit: Interested in less personal opinions, more technical experience, thanks!

Last edited by daf666 (2008-10-25 11:47:51)

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#115 2008-10-25 00:05:31

z0phi3l
Member
From: Waterbury CT
Registered: 2007-11-26
Posts: 278

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

^^ Or they could just use Ubuntu because vthe whole point of rolling release is to not have to deal with a "stable" repo

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#116 2008-10-25 00:14:46

Stythys
Member
From: SF Bay Area
Registered: 2008-05-18
Posts: 878
Website

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

basically, yeah, if you want a stable repo you should prolly just use another distro. Maintaining a stable repo would take a lot of work hmm


[home page] -- [code / configs]

"Once you go Arch, you must remain there for life or else Allan will track you down and break you."
-- Bregol

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#117 2008-10-25 00:23:10

z0phi3l
Member
From: Waterbury CT
Registered: 2007-11-26
Posts: 278

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

Stythys wrote:

basically, yeah, if you want a stable repo you should prolly just use another distro. Maintaining a stable repo would take a lot of work hmm

Creating and maintaining an Official "stable repo" is also counter the KISS philosophy we have here tongue

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#118 2008-10-25 00:56:34

Xyne
Moderator/TU
Registered: 2008-08-03
Posts: 5,688
Website

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

The only reason to have a "stable" repo is to avoid breaking something when upgrading, right? If you have the disk space for it, why not just create a backup installation of Arch that you only update with packages that you've tested for a few weeks on the main installation?

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#119 2008-10-25 09:38:40

Heller_Barde
Member
Registered: 2008-04-01
Posts: 245

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

Xyne wrote:

create a backup installation of Arch that you only update with packages that you've tested for a few weeks on the main installation?

good idea! probably better the other way round so to avoid breaking the main installation ^_^ tongue

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#120 2008-10-25 21:22:18

SomeGuyDude
Member
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 271

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

I wasn't under the impression that a distro like Arch was really intended for systems that cannot afford a periodic breakage from updates. You want something like that, go with a Debian stable.


And in the midst of such perfection,
I can't help but feel diseased.

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#121 2008-10-26 00:38:36

Allan
Developer
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,409
Website

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

Wow...  we are seeing the same opinions yet again in a thread that got revived after sitting idle for a long time.  I guess no-one who posted in the last few days has read the earlier posts.

I'll summarize:  There are reasons for having a stable port of Arch but no-one has ever had the motivation to see this through.

Now stop reviving dead threads.  I really hate zombie threads...   *BRAINS*

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#122 2008-10-26 02:13:04

Misfit138
Misfit Emeritus
From: USA
Registered: 2006-11-27
Posts: 4,170

Re: Arch needs Stable-Snapshots!

Mr.Elendig wrote:

My magic 8-ball tells me that it will never happen.

Hmmm. I have a similar 8-ball telling me a similar message.
Closed.

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