how to achieve such a window management?

awagner · 2008-01-26 23:08:54

Hi all,
when I browsed the x11 category in all repos and AUR, searching for anything like a lean window manager, I ended up with ... ahemm... more than a dozen tabs pointing to packages, where I would then pursue links on to the respective wm's home page to find out more about it. But then I thought why must I think about it this way? Maybe it would be better to think about it the other way round:

Reflecting on my work needs, desires and habits, surely there would be a way to specify an intelligent way of handling the corresponding windows; not let the presently available window managers' ways of doing things dictate what is the most appropriate way to handle it.

Maybe more users have the same profile of day-to-day work and can contribute to/benefit from my (first) ideas of how to go about this; or there turn out to be more - but still rather generic - useage profiles with different, but no less specifiable demands; or it can eventually turn out that this isn't so generic a problem after all and every case is (to be handled) very different(ly).

So here's what I am usually doing:
I have a couple of terminal windows, which I am using for
- mutt
- mc
- and a command prompt
Rather frequently one command prompt is not enough and I add more (for an updating or compilation process, some monitoring, su'ing, cd/dvd-burning)
For my academic work/editing needs I need some large windows - one at a time:
- gvim (actually this is accompanied most of the time by a second large kpdf window to verify what I am typing -- the usual latex dance)
- soffice
- And another large window for browsing (opera).
On my desktop there is conky monitoring cpu/ps/top/net/mem health.
Next there frequently are windows that are called for explicitly but don't remain open so long as the previous ones:
- gftp
- pinot or another search tool
- thunar
- gedit
- xpdf
(the last two are launched from another app like gedit from gftp and xpdf from the web browser to do some short work, then be closed and return me to that application afterwards again)
Finally I often have to
- control my music player (moc) and the sound volume
- launch some bash wrapper of my own (backing up, setting up powersave mode etc.)
- launch a new program not listed above
- see the time and date
- suspend

So here's what I'd like my window manager to be/do:

* tiled management, so no screen estate is lost.
* have a status bar (on top) with some info, clock and launchers (I like to be able to access many functions both by keyboard and by mouse click, depending on whether I have my hands on the keyboard (editing) or on the mouse (webbrowsing)).
* have a one-main-window column layout (say, for web browsing and console work).
* have a two-main-windows layout (say, for latex editing) with both windows having half of the screen-width each and as much vertical space as possible.
* switch between conky (or some similar informational program) being collapsed and being shown (say, expanded at the bottom of the stack column in one-main-window-the-rest-stacked layout) - preferably with a single keypress. (Right now I am switching to a workspace that happens not to have conky covered by another window...)
* allow to specify to keep some auto-opening windows floated (e.g. cookie confirmation prompts) and others managed (xpdf/gedit), if possible beforehand.
* allow to launch a floating "run command" prompt when pressing, say Mod1+f2 (and why not make it a dynamic menu like wmii/firebox/dmenu?)
* make the status bar a menu when needed?
* allow other programs to put information in the statusbar (e.g. on song change, volume change, mail arriving)

Here are some concepts I like, (tho I have not yet practically tried any of them) maybe they can make their way into my dream-WM, too
* a bit like rio, isn't it cool to just draw out a new window and then have a default shell in there? Maybe even with tiled layout: Pan that new window to the left border (or right border if its "more on the right column") of the screen and use its width as the column width of a two-column layout. (Stack whatever was in the left(/right-)most column below or above the new window (depending on how "high" the window has been drawn out.) Does that even make sense?
* like windowlab, have a menu which ignores vertical mouse movement when in the menu.
* like windowlab, resize all dimensions of a window with a single click (and drag) and adjust column widths and stacks accordingly.
* like wmii, have tags - maybe even editable and executable like in acme.
* like wmii, try to avoid polling every soandsomuch seconds when monitoring for changes of some value. Maybe not using so much cpu nowadays but I suppose not very friendly to sleep states.

What are your ideas concerning these wishes? Are they even quite confused/inconsistent after all? What do you think a perfect window manager should provide?

And do you happen to be able to suggest a window manager that can be set up more or less easily more or less like what I am looking for?

Thanks for any insights,
Andreas

vogt · 2008-01-27 01:30:52

Lots of those ideas are crazy; rio makes you do too much work, and it's too mouse-oriented.

I would recommend using dwm or xmonad; both offer layout options similar to what you want,
take rules to make some windows floating by default (the default rules work fine),
keybindings can be set up to make the environment you want.

XMonad is a bit more flexible as far as configuration goes; there are more options for configuration including layouts in the contrib repo modules. Just take a look; it's all quite well documented.

The default layout for either wm gives you two stacks of windows; space is divided equally for all the windows in each stack. You can promote windows to the master stack, knocking one of the master windows into the stack on the right; also you can make one of the columns wider. When you only have a couple of windows, this simple, dynamic tiling is pretty efficient.

And lastly, maybe you need to try out the wonderful vimperator as far as mouseless browsing goes (so you don't have the chance to see the deficient mouse-status bar handling of xmonad (none for the status bar; there are contrib modules for mouse gestures...), and less so for dwm (last time I checked).

Other than those two window managers, you might consider trying the different approaches of these;
* ratpoison (gnu screen for X11; limited tiling options; use screen)
* stumpwm (looks as versatile as xmonad, but in lisp, not haskell)

vis · 2008-01-28 11:32:57

I share some of your wishes:

So here's what I am usually doing:
I have a couple of terminal windows, which I am using for
- mutt
...
- and a command prompt
Rather frequently one command prompt is not enough and I add more ...
For my academic work/editing needs I need some large windows - one at a time:
- gvim (actually this is accompanied most of the time by a second large kpdf window to verify what I am typing -- the usual latex dance)
- soffice
- And another large window for browsing (opera).
On my desktop there is conky monitoring cpu/ps/top/net/mem health.
...
- launch a new program not listed above
- see the time and date
...
So here's what I'd like my window manager to be/do:
...
* tiled management, so no screen estate is lost.
* have a status bar (on top) with some info, clock and launchers (I like to be able to access many functions both by keyboard and by mouse click, depending on whether I have my hands on the keyboard (editing) or on the mouse (webbrowsing)).

After experimenting with XFCE I moved to OpenBox and staying there for oven an year now.
Advantages:
- the screen is empty except for 24 pixel pypanel at the botton (clock and opened windows displayed)
- conky running at top right
- 6 virtual screens (ctrl-alt-arrows left and right)
- two small terminals only screen (one local with root and mutt, the other logged into remote computers)
- LaTeX screen with overlapping termincal and xdvi (can't do better 1024x768)
- Browser and Thunderbird on another
- OpenOffice, acroread etc on yet another, only if necessary.

* have a one-main-window column layout (say, for web browsing and console work).
* have a two-main-windows layout (say, for latex editing) with both windows having half of the screen-width each and as much vertical space as possible.
* switch between conky (or some similar informational program) being collapsed and being shown (say, expanded at the bottom of the stack column in one-main-window-the-rest-stacked layout) - preferably with a single keypress. (Right now I am switching to a workspace that happens not to have conky covered by another window...)

Hotkeys for my popular programs (Alt-1 to 9)

I don't think your ideas are confused. It just needs time to get everything nicely configured. Of course chaning window manager is expensive. So I haven't tried many, rather stayed with OpenBox.

Xilon · 2008-01-28 15:00:11

I think XMonad can do those things, along with dzen. You could setup dzen to have the same info as you have in conky. You could have this bar collapsed, and when hovering over it uncollapse it to show more details. dzen is also capable of being a menu/launcher, and there's also dmenu for an "alt+f2" launcher. I think you'd enjoy the Full layout, which covers the whole screen, so you can switch between windows which are maximised.

You can replicate wmii's filesystem functionality for the statbusbar by using inotify. There are some scripts available in the xmonad and dzen hacking thread.

Xmonad is one of the more powerful and customisable WMs I've used, but it's also a bit harder to configure (which usually tends to be the case). As long as you don't mind the ~50mb ghc download, try it out.

finferflu · 2008-01-28 16:01:18

Ratpoison is my choice. You can use GNU Screen for multiple tabs within the terminal. I like Ratpoison more than Xmonad (apart from the horrible Xmonad config file) because the concept of auto-tiling applies well to windows that do not create popups, which is a hobby for most of the GUI apps
So, if you use apps that generate pop-ups, I suggest you to leave auto-tiling. Ratpoison is not automatic, but you can save your frames' size and position, and restore them whenever you want.

Other than that, Xmonad is a very good Window Manager

pauldonnelly · 2008-01-28 17:29:22

vogt wrote:

Lots of those ideas are crazy; rio makes you do too much work, and it's too mouse-oriented.

What's wrong with mice?

dhave · 2008-01-28 17:59:26

pauldonnelly wrote:

vogt wrote:
Lots of those ideas are crazy; rio makes you do too much work, and it's too mouse-oriented.
What's wrong with mice?

From the Northhampton (U.K.) Council:

"Mice like rats are a major health hazard. They are responsible for the spread of many diseases, some of which can be fatal to man. They can eat food which is intended for human consumption, and contaminate much more with their urine, droppings and fur. Mice can also cause structural damage to property by gnawing through wiring, pipework and other materials. Diseases spread by mice are Salmonellosis, which is a type of food poisoning, gastro-enteritis accompanied by headache and fever."

Not to mention bubonic plaque.

Last edited by dhave (2008-01-28 18:00:11)

grndrush · 2008-01-29 08:46:21

What's wrong with mice?

Highly non-ergonomic, hence RSI's (e.g., Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, or, in my case, Ulnar Neuropathy). Virtually everyone I know who has used computers 8 hrs+/day for more than 5 years avoids the mouse whenever possible.

I've been using a keyboard for almost 35 years. 20+ years ago, system designers hadn't yet found "ergonomics" in the dictionary, and keyboards weren't much better than today's mice - anyone else remember the ****ing Hazeltine 1500? Ruin your hands AND your eyesight at the same time, LOL. I've been using a mouse for - what - 15 years? 20? However long there's been mice. My hand/arm feel pain *every single time* I touch the mouse. Actually, it hurts most of the time. I have trouble falling asleep at night because of the pain.

I actually have two mice connected to my system, a 'tradtional' style (wireless wheel) mouse, and an OLD Logitech Trackman Marble FX; some days one is easier to use, some days the other. I'm big into keyboard shortcuts, but it's really somewhat hard to completely avoid the mouse in a non-minimalist GUI environment.

FWIW, I'm scheduled for major exploratory surgery in a couple of months to begin to figure out exactly what damage I've done*** so they can restore at least some of the function I've lost, due specifically to this issue. And, of course, 'exploratory' normally (not always, but normally) means there's going to be MORE major surgery to come.

*** The Ulnar nerve is next to the Carpal nerve (they're the two biggest nerves in your arm); "Neuropathy" basically means "Nerve Disease, NOS"

Sorry to be so somber in response to a seemingly light-hearted comment, but 1/2 my hand has been numb for a YEAR. Please do a bit of research, and take care of yourself. Believe me, you don't want to end up feeling like a cripple at 50.

thisllub · 2008-02-03 07:47:09

grndrush wrote:

I actually have two mice connected to my system, a 'tradtional' style (wireless wheel) mouse, and an OLD Logitech Trackman Marble FX; some days one is easier to use, some days the other. I'm big into keyboard shortcuts, but it's really somewhat hard to completely avoid the mouse in a non-minimalist GUI environment.

Very similar situation to my own only using the mouse and trackball seems to be enough to calm the pain.

I find e17 superior for keyboard control.
I map a key for the run command dialog which is the best of its kind.
Window switching via the client list is Ctrl-menu then first letter of the window title.
Individual desktop switching for each monitor and a comprehensive list of window manipulation functions.

Light and Fast too.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-01-26 23:08:54

how to achieve such a window management?

#2 2008-01-27 01:30:52

Re: how to achieve such a window management?

#3 2008-01-28 11:32:57

Re: how to achieve such a window management?

#4 2008-01-28 15:00:11

Re: how to achieve such a window management?

#5 2008-01-28 16:01:18

Re: how to achieve such a window management?

#6 2008-01-28 17:29:22

Re: how to achieve such a window management?

#7 2008-01-28 17:59:26

Re: how to achieve such a window management?

#8 2008-01-29 08:46:21

Re: how to achieve such a window management?

#9 2008-02-03 07:47:09

Re: how to achieve such a window management?

Board footer