scared to do latest update.SOLVED

drum · 2008-02-12 12:28:18

Hi,
After reading some of the messages re the latest kernel and nvidia updates,
I am scared to do it in case it causes crashes which I am not arch savvy enough to correct.
I've been doing all the updates for nearly a year now with no problems but this one is a bit scary going from 2.6.23 to 24 and the nvidia updates as well.
Being the noob that I am I wonder if there is some kind of 'prevention' rather than 'cure' after the fact?
I just hosed my spare machine with the updates. I could not get any terminal which would let me type anything into.
I don't want to do the same to my main box and laptop. I run Gnome with Nvidia and love Arch.
Any understanding and noob sympathetic replies from experts will be appreciated.
Cheers:)

Last edited by drum (2008-02-13 11:38:07)

ralvez · 2008-02-12 12:36:10

well ... when in doubt just wait. A couple of weeks (at the most) will not make a big impact in your system and when the problems get ironed you update.
That's what I would do.

Allan · 2008-02-12 12:39:12

One way is to make sure you have the old kernel and nvidia packages in your pacman cache. That way, if you really stuff up, you can boot into the install CD and downgrade these packages. It is a bit of a dive in an hope approach but it can be good to learn your system...

Other than that, you could add these packages to the IgnorePkg list in pacman.conf and wait a few days to see if the problems get solutions in the forums.

brebs · 2008-02-12 12:39:18

The "prevention" is to watch the forums.

Fix your spare machine, and figure out *why* it was hosed, first

schivmeister · 2008-02-12 12:48:10

a good opportunity to be arch savvy enough, no doubt

drum · 2008-02-12 12:48:34

Thanks for your quick replies guys,
They have given me some options to think about.
I'm learning and it's fun
Regards

bangkok_manouel · 2008-02-12 12:53:25

Well, that's not what you want to hear but anyway... Going back to previous packages versions is _really_ not difficult. I even think you should force yourself to upgrade as the bad will certainly happen someday and you'll be ready to face it.

Anyway, be sure you have the packages you are about to upgrade in /var/cache/pacman/pkg/ (or something similar, not using Arch ATM) AND your Arch install CD with you.

If the kernel update goes wrong and you can't get your machine to boot:
- Boot from Arch Install CD
- There's an option to boot into your system (read the text, can't remember now), IIRC you just have to mention where your / is (be sure to write that somewhere before upgrading)
- Login
- Go to /var/cache/pacman/pkg/
- pacman -U former_version_of_your_package.pkg.tar.gz (as root)
- Reboot

Et voila...

If the graphic drivers are the problem and won't let you start X then:
- Go to /var/cache/pacman/pkg/
- pacman -U former_version_of_your_package.pkg.tar.gz (as root)

DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT !

edit: I should try to type faster... Almost useless post

Last edited by bangkok_manouel (2008-02-12 13:28:24)

drum · 2008-02-12 13:11:26

I should try to type faster... Almost useless post

Not at all bangkok_manouel, it gives me much more to think about.
Much appreciated.
Regards

kensai · 2008-02-12 14:32:52

Well, I have nvidia and kernel 2.6.24 since those packages were in testing and have never had any issues. I don't think the hosed machine is a cause of kernel .24 and nvidia, since I have those two running like champions together.

tami · 2008-02-12 14:55:04

hmmm - I am new to Arch. too. Anyway - having nVIDIA GeForce 7050 - I upgraded last Sunday to kernel 2.6.24.
It was not without a small "hassle" though. I had to:

rm /usr/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1 #as a root

and then:

pacman -R nvidia-utils #also as root

Since then - upgrade went smooth and my computer is running as usually on Arch - without any problems.
NOTE: This what I made applies to my machine and I can't guarantee that it will also apply to yours!
I would also like to point out that the last kernel upgrade is with security patches - so... I, for one, would not wait with the upgrade.
I hope it will be of help for you, drum.
tami

loosec · 2008-02-12 15:04:48

This is probably why pacman -Rn , -Rcn and finally -Rcsn are useful, to _really- purge the packet from your system.

Also, keeping you current kernel and fallback backed up in /boot/backup and adding the proper option to GRUB menu is somewhat convenient when an upgrade breaks something.

On another note it might be necessary to use pacman -Uf old.pkg.tar.gz to force the downgrade. Not sure thou.

Last edited by loosec (2008-02-12 15:10:38)

tami · 2008-02-12 15:58:31

loosec wrote:

This is probably why pacman -Rn , -Rcn and finally -Rcsn are useful, to _really- purge the packet from your system.

...just wanted to clear out that the first thing I tried was :

pacman -Rcsn nvidia-utils

but - it would end up in removing whole xorg, AFAIR. That's why I used this - mentioned above - perhaps not totally "correct" - work around.

Kind regards,
tami

lilsirecho · 2008-02-12 16:06:09

Perhaps you could use an alternate method of install control such as I describe herein.

Establish a system utilizing a usb flash drive as a cachedir wherein you download the latest upgrades.

This is done as follows;

pacman --cachedir /media/disk/upgrade -Syuw ........including depends as necessary

This will download but not install the named packages. Arrange in folders as you see fit.

Install the selected package(s) with depends;

........pacman -Ud /media/disk/upgrade/(folder)/*.pkg.tar.gz.........

Check out the performance of the installed package(s) and decide whether to install permanently with the normal pacman -Syu format. If not a suitable package, use pacman to remove the selected package.

Alternatively, use pacman -Syuw package name.... and install each separately from that source for testing. This method places all the packages in /var/cache/pacman/pkg and leaves them therein subject to the next pacman activity. No guarantee that they won't install at some later time.

A live usb install OS enables testing of packages within your computer arena without permanently installing and permits testing of upgrades with respect to hardware interfaces in particular. In live systems using aufs the package can be deleted with a reboot without saving.

Another way to go.........

loosec · 2008-02-12 16:54:07

tami wrote:

...just wanted to clear out that the first thing I tried was :
pacman -Rcsn nvidia-utils
but - it would end up in removing whole xorg, AFAIR. That's why I used this - mentioned above - perhaps not totally "correct" - work around.
Kind regards,
tami

Ah, ofcourse Tried the same thing just now since pacman refused to upgrade any packages for the exact same reason you had. Quite a few packages there...
What solved it for me was:
sudo pacman -Syuf
Will remember this since there sometimes, not often, are minor logical errors in the order packages are upgraded.

ibendiben · 2008-02-12 20:50:53

loosec wrote:

This is probably why pacman -Rn , -Rcn and finally -Rcsn are useful, to _really- purge the packet from your system.

pacman -Rc is dangerous, it deletes every parent package the target package was a dependency of. So it could remove a whole lot, if you aren't careful... I don't recommend this option ever, can't think of a situation you would need it. pacman -Rs is good, you should always use this as it removes any orphaned dependencies too, and checkes whether a package is still needed by any other. You can use pacman -Rsn if you don't want to keep a pacsave-file, but they don't hurt do they? and you can always remove them later

Last edited by ibendiben (2008-02-12 20:52:06)

drum · 2008-02-12 22:24:27

I am now up to date on my T61 laptop. Thanks to all you lovely people encouraging me to learn to fix things.
I put IgnorePkg = kernel26 nvidia nvidia-utils in pacman.conf then did pacman -Syu and then pacman -S kernel26.
It warned me that it was being ignored but did I want to continue anyway. I said yes.
After that I rebooted and got a warning that my x was not configured properly with nvidia.
I then went to # and did the same with nvidia and nvidia-utils. Still no x so I did what tami suggested and did
rm /usr/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1
Then did modprobe -l | grep iwl4965
Rebooted and everything came up roses and I have the new kernel, new nvidia and wireless working fine.

Now to try the same on my main box.
I would love it if you guys could come to OZ and sit with Arch and me for and hour or two.
I'm self taught for 3 years using Linux with no previous computer experience.
The nearest linux people to me are pretty advanced in Mandriva or Ubuntu. Nothing wrong with that I suppose. No Archers though.
Once again, thanks

cirkit · 2008-02-12 23:11:05

Glad to hear it has worked out for you. I'l' give this a try when I get home from work. I'll add kernel26 and nvidia nvidia-utils to my IgnorePkg in pacman.conf, then try again. I do remember seeing some output when I tried updating nvidia with the libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1 message ... wish me luck.

Allan · 2008-02-12 23:25:13

drum wrote:

I would love it if you guys could come to OZ and sit with Arch and me for and hour or two.

Where abouts in Oz are you...

drum · 2008-02-12 23:47:14

Where abouts in Oz are you...

Allan, I'm on the Sunshine Coast, Queensland. Lots of summer rain at the moment.

BTW i just did same routine to my main box (without the wifi bit) and it updated perfectly.

Thanks again to all

drum · 2008-02-12 23:51:03

wish me luck.

cirkit sure do.

Allan · 2008-02-12 23:51:04

drum wrote:

Lots of summer rain at the moment.

There sure is... I'm in Brisbane.

drum · 2008-02-12 23:59:19

I'm in Brisbane.

Bloody 'ell Allan, only about an hour from me in Maroochydore. Please come and visit my cultural wasteland anytime.
Regards

cirkit · 2008-02-13 16:34:03

I'm still having a problem trying to have the new nvidia drivers work with 2.6.24 ... nvidia seems to install fine, I can even modprobe the module without a problem. The problem is whenever I attempt to login to an X session or even a login manager like KDM, it appears as if it is trying to launch, but it *hangs* with a black screen and no cursor ... usually if there is a problem you will get something like "No screens found" ... but there is no output at all, just hangs at a black screen and I can't even change virtual consoles ... the only way to get out of this is to control alt delete the system and restart. I dont' know what else to do at this point except downgrade the kernel and drivers which still works .. I think there is some flaw in the pacman package for nvidia because of some incorrect symlinking ... I have followed the steps in this thread exactly and the problem still persists ... the good news is that I have 2.6.24 and nvidia (and nvidia-utils) installed without any problems, and like I said nvidia module is able to load when doing modprobe ... can anyone provide some insight on this problem? What could it mean if I am not receiving X errors and only a blank black screen with no cursor?

Schnouki · 2008-02-13 19:25:43

cirkit,
I have the very same problem: nvidia module modprobe'd fine, but X crashing with a black screen.

I think something is causing a kernel panic (or oops or whatever) because I can't even ssh or ping my laptop from my other computer, but I couldn't find any solution. Right now I'm using the nv driver (I tried the git version of "nouveau" too ) but I miss the nvidia driver and its nice dual screen support...

Does someone know if there is a way to get a backtrace if it's really a kernel panic?

cirkit · 2008-02-13 19:33:28

Schnouki.

When I check the Xorg.0.log in /var/log, there isn't any significant information that could give hint on the cause of this problem ... I'm going to keep using 2.6.24, due to the security fix implemented with it, but I may try using the previous nvidia drivers that did work with this new kernel. I'll post back on this little adventure.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-02-12 12:28:18

scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#2 2008-02-12 12:36:10

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#3 2008-02-12 12:39:12

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#4 2008-02-12 12:39:18

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#5 2008-02-12 12:48:10

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#6 2008-02-12 12:48:34

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#7 2008-02-12 12:53:25

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#8 2008-02-12 13:11:26

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#9 2008-02-12 14:32:52

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#10 2008-02-12 14:55:04

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#11 2008-02-12 15:04:48

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#12 2008-02-12 15:58:31

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#13 2008-02-12 16:06:09

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#14 2008-02-12 16:54:07

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#15 2008-02-12 20:50:53

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#16 2008-02-12 22:24:27

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#17 2008-02-12 23:11:05

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#18 2008-02-12 23:25:13

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#19 2008-02-12 23:47:14

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#20 2008-02-12 23:51:03

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#21 2008-02-12 23:51:04

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#22 2008-02-12 23:59:19

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#23 2008-02-13 16:34:03

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#24 2008-02-13 19:25:43

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

#25 2008-02-13 19:33:28

Re: scared to do latest update.SOLVED

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