I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

smitty · 2008-01-24 23:08:35

I just downloaded and tried out Sabayon 3.4F LiveDVD AMD64 version. I must say I was impressed with the install experience. Although, I couldn't find a way for the Live portion of it to work, but I wound up using the "Install" method. At any rate, I like the interface, speed, and how they combined the best features of other distros. The only thing I don't like is when I upgrade the packages, there are still some packages that are in testing phase. Any person here who have had a similar experience and could comment / give some perspectives? Thanks for your efforts!

P.S. I have been told that this is the most advanced distro out there. (except maybe Gentoo, perhaps?)

Last edited by smitty (2008-01-24 23:10:10)

chimeric · 2008-01-24 23:43:41

smitty wrote:

P.S. I have been told that this is the most advanced distro out there. (except maybe Gentoo, perhaps?)

Sabayon is derived from Gentoo, IIRC they try to be 100% compatible with it, which means if you run Sabayon you "should" be able to use for example the official Gentoo portage repository and their overlays. Though Sabayon focuses on binary packages it's not a binary only distro. Well, Sabayon uses portage as its package manager that says it all.

Last edited by chimeric (2008-01-24 23:44:10)

wolfden · 2008-01-24 23:52:55

Sabayon Linux runs out of the testing branch by default, hence it's "bleeding edge" slogan. 3.4f packages are from last June, so if you compare that to portage today, it's outdated and many big changes have happened since than, like new KDE 3.5.8, gnome, python, etc... World updating the 3.4f is a nightmare and really isn't worth it when 3.5 is in public beta testing. Loop 2 is expected Mid-February and should include the new GUI binary package manager Spritz. Presently the CLI one is working for the binary package manager. SVN is the one you want to run if you plan on updating to KDE4 and world updating. Keep in mind, a world update through the binary side is only going to take you as current as the binary repo is. It's updated, but not as updated as portage. The repo isn't as large as portage either, but it is growing every day, over 2700+ packages as of today. Community repos is a goal of the project and we are waiting for more information on that.

The binary side is compatible with gentoo portage, but if you change your USE flags, equo has a flag check built in so it won't fubar your system, it will rebuild all your packages to the default make.conf. I run a custom make.conf so equo doesn't work for me. I go to install kde 4.0.0 and it wants to rebuild 900+ packages and remove 400+ packages while it add the KDE 4.0.0 packages. So you kinda have to decide which method to use, entropy(binary system) or portage. If you go binary, leave your make.conf file alone and you shouldn't run into any problems. The whole entropy(binary system) is early beta yet so expect bugs. SVN equo is the best route to go.

There is a mini edition of Sabayon Linux, it includes all the eye candy but lesser packages. It uses the testing branch of gentoo.

There is also a Professional Edition, which is built on the stable branch of gentoo. It's only a 2GB dvd and does not include the eye candy of compiz-fusion or games. That does not mean you can't install them tho. Read about mixing the branches on the gentoo site.

I ran Gentoo before Sabayon so I was use to having my own config files and things like that. So I always edit the config files and rebuild the entire operating system to them. The results are a very stable system. It just knocks me out of using the binary system, which to me is no big deal. Turning Gentoo into binary really defeats the purpose of it if you ask me. For some it's a dream come true and especially for laptop owners.

BTW I help with Sabayon, I'm not a dev. but I am one of the core beta testers, forum admin for the site, irc op, and contributer to the wiki. It consumes a lot of time and that's why I am hoping arch linux will be my escape for peace when I need it. If you have questions I can gladly answer them. The sabayon linux team is a small group of people. It officially only has 2 devs and as of recent, Daniel Robbins has also joined our internal dev mailing list and that is all I can say about that.

I hope that clarifys some of your interest. I'm not here to promote it in any way, but will answer any question that anyone has.

Last edited by wolfden (2008-01-24 23:55:47)

ibendiben · 2008-01-25 00:14:08

Maybe not so fair to put it this way but to me sabayon is gentoo trying to look like ubuntu. This means more GUI, eye-candy, out-of-box configuration and support for binary packages; but under the hood it's gentoo. It sounds good and obviously (distrowatch) many people seem to like it. A downside for example is that the binary-support means upgrading becomes a pain in the ass, wolfden can tell all about this, he wrote an unofficial 'update world'-sabayon-guide. All due respect but following that guide you might as well consider to install gentoo all the way.
In my opinion and experience Arch does a better job providing a bleeding edge, fast and highly configurable system while using binaries, the way Arch keeps (advanced) things 'simple' appeals to me very much, I like rc.conf and prefer choosing my own packages to install.
At first sight I was blown away with sabayon's out-of-the-box performance... but in Arch I finally found what I was looking for.

smitty · 2008-01-25 00:55:26

wolfden wrote:

Sabayon Linux runs out of the testing branch by default, hence it's "bleeding edge" slogan. 3.4f packages are from last June, so if you compare that to portage today, it's outdated and many big changes have happened since than, like new KDE 3.5.8, gnome, python, etc... World updating the 3.4f is a nightmare and really isn't worth it when 3.5 is in public beta testing. Loop 2 is expected Mid-February and should include the new GUI binary package manager Spritz. Presently the CLI one is working for the binary package manager. SVN is the one you want to run if you plan on updating to KDE4 and world updating. Keep in mind, a world update through the binary side is only going to take you as current as the binary repo is. It's updated, but not as updated as portage. The repo isn't as large as portage either, but it is growing every day, over 2700+ packages as of today. Community repos is a goal of the project and we are waiting for more information on that.
The binary side is compatible with gentoo portage, but if you change your USE flags, equo has a flag check built in so it won't fubar your system, it will rebuild all your packages to the default make.conf. I run a custom make.conf so equo doesn't work for me. I go to install kde 4.0.0 and it wants to rebuild 900+ packages and remove 400+ packages while it add the KDE 4.0.0 packages. So you kinda have to decide which method to use, entropy(binary system) or portage. If you go binary, leave your make.conf file alone and you shouldn't run into any problems. The whole entropy(binary system) is early beta yet so expect bugs. SVN equo is the best route to go.
There is a mini edition of Sabayon Linux, it includes all the eye candy but lesser packages. It uses the testing branch of gentoo.
There is also a Professional Edition, which is built on the stable branch of gentoo. It's only a 2GB dvd and does not include the eye candy of compiz-fusion or games. That does not mean you can't install them tho. Read about mixing the branches on the gentoo site.
I ran Gentoo before Sabayon so I was use to having my own config files and things like that. So I always edit the config files and rebuild the entire operating system to them. The results are a very stable system. It just knocks me out of using the binary system, which to me is no big deal. Turning Gentoo into binary really defeats the purpose of it if you ask me. For some it's a dream come true and especially for laptop owners.
BTW I help with Sabayon, I'm not a dev. but I am one of the core beta testers, forum admin for the site, irc op, and contributer to the wiki. It consumes a lot of time and that's why I am hoping arch linux will be my escape for peace when I need it. If you have questions I can gladly answer them. The sabayon linux team is a small group of people. It officially only has 2 devs and as of recent, Daniel Robbins has also joined our internal dev mailing list and that is all I can say about that.
I hope that clarifys some of your interest. I'm not here to promote it in any way, but will answer any question that anyone has.

Wow, that's a good synopsis / description if I heard one. The thing I have heard on this forum is that Gentoo is in "testing" phase. That means to me it may have many bugs in it. The reason I like / wanted to install Gentoo compared to any other distro (not knocking distros in particular, including Arch) is that you can learn more how things work and also customize it even further. Sabayon is supposed to make this process easier (i.e. more automation), but I felt it had the same problems relating to packages with it. Don't get me wrong, I want distros like these to flourish for what they are. Even ArchLinux has it's own place in the market.
Since you are a beta tester, perhaps you can tell me why it is that software "stays" (or seem to stay) in testing phase with Gentoo? And, finally, I have one other question. I've heard people say that sometimes Beta software can be better than Stable versions (perhaps because they say it is more bleeding edge). I don't remember where I read this. Is this, however, true?

P.S. I heard the president of Gentoo, Daniel Robbins, didn't agree with some things with the Gentoo trustees and forked off his own website: http://www.funtoo.org How would this affect Gentoo / Sabayon, in general?

wolfden · 2008-01-25 00:58:34

No offense taken.

A comparison to "Ubuntu Gentoo" is a good one, but the problem new people run into is the fact that gentoo is under the hood. They hose their system over and over again thinking they have to do this world update. They get mad and walk away from it. I tried to write that guide in as many steps possible so the new guy wouldn't be dealing with everything at one time. I want them to build it in small steps to help them get through the process. When that guide was written back in the 3.25 days, Sabayon was not designed for a world update at all and as time has past it has gotten better. The longer you wait from release date the harder it is going to get tho. It attracts a lot of ubuntu users and everyone knows how an ubuntu user thinks, they have no idea that linux can be different and expect a GUI for everything. This causes great frustration as they have to spend hours reading wikis and handbook. RTFM runs rampant and honestly the documentation is bountiful, but than they come whining that they have read it and still don't understand it. I despise ubuntu for that. I understand not every ubuntu user is like that, we just hear from the ones that are. Where is my GUI? Where is the Update Notification? What is konsole? Zomg sudo don't work, now what? Where is the easy button?

Spritz will be the GUI for binary package system. An update notification is on the todo list through entropy. Sudo should be working in latest releases. So yea, "Ubuntu Gentoo" fits the subject. It's innovation compared to the stale Gentoo project that is nothing but devs and users fighting. Have you seen the gentoo forum lately? It's a riot to read. Users vs. Devs, Devs vs. Users, Portage vs. Paludis, Paludis vs. pkgcore -- It's ridiculous.

wolfden · 2008-01-25 01:05:57

smitty wrote:

wolfden wrote:
Sabayon Linux runs out of the testing branch by default, hence it's "bleeding edge" slogan. 3.4f packages are from last June, so if you compare that to portage today, it's outdated and many big changes have happened since than, like new KDE 3.5.8, gnome, python, etc... World updating the 3.4f is a nightmare and really isn't worth it when 3.5 is in public beta testing. Loop 2 is expected Mid-February and should include the new GUI binary package manager Spritz. Presently the CLI one is working for the binary package manager. SVN is the one you want to run if you plan on updating to KDE4 and world updating. Keep in mind, a world update through the binary side is only going to take you as current as the binary repo is. It's updated, but not as updated as portage. The repo isn't as large as portage either, but it is growing every day, over 2700+ packages as of today. Community repos is a goal of the project and we are waiting for more information on that.
The binary side is compatible with gentoo portage, but if you change your USE flags, equo has a flag check built in so it won't fubar your system, it will rebuild all your packages to the default make.conf. I run a custom make.conf so equo doesn't work for me. I go to install kde 4.0.0 and it wants to rebuild 900+ packages and remove 400+ packages while it add the KDE 4.0.0 packages. So you kinda have to decide which method to use, entropy(binary system) or portage. If you go binary, leave your make.conf file alone and you shouldn't run into any problems. The whole entropy(binary system) is early beta yet so expect bugs. SVN equo is the best route to go.
There is a mini edition of Sabayon Linux, it includes all the eye candy but lesser packages. It uses the testing branch of gentoo.
There is also a Professional Edition, which is built on the stable branch of gentoo. It's only a 2GB dvd and does not include the eye candy of compiz-fusion or games. That does not mean you can't install them tho. Read about mixing the branches on the gentoo site.
I ran Gentoo before Sabayon so I was use to having my own config files and things like that. So I always edit the config files and rebuild the entire operating system to them. The results are a very stable system. It just knocks me out of using the binary system, which to me is no big deal. Turning Gentoo into binary really defeats the purpose of it if you ask me. For some it's a dream come true and especially for laptop owners.
BTW I help with Sabayon, I'm not a dev. but I am one of the core beta testers, forum admin for the site, irc op, and contributer to the wiki. It consumes a lot of time and that's why I am hoping arch linux will be my escape for peace when I need it. If you have questions I can gladly answer them. The sabayon linux team is a small group of people. It officially only has 2 devs and as of recent, Daniel Robbins has also joined our internal dev mailing list and that is all I can say about that.
I hope that clarifys some of your interest. I'm not here to promote it in any way, but will answer any question that anyone has.
Wow, that's a good synopsis / description if I heard one. The thing I have heard on this forum is that Gentoo is in "testing" phase. That means to me it may have many bugs in it. The reason I like / wanted to install Gentoo compared to any other distro (not knocking distros in particular, including Arch) is that you can learn more how things work and also customize it even further. Sabayon is supposed to make this process easier (i.e. more automation), but I felt it had the same problems relating to packages with it. Don't get me wrong, I want distros like these to flourish for what they are. Even ArchLinux has it's own place in the market.
Since you are a beta tester, perhaps you can tell me why it is that software "stays" (or seem to stay) in testing phase with Gentoo? And, finally, I have one other question. I've heard people say that sometimes Beta software can be better than Stable versions (perhaps because they say it is more bleeding edge). I don't remember where I read this. Is this, however, true?
P.S. I heard the president of Gentoo, Daniel Robbins, didn't agree with some things with the Gentoo trustees and forked off his own website: http://www.funtoo.org How would this affect Gentoo / Sabayon, in general?

Portage is controlled by the gentoo devs so when they get time to deal with packages is when the packages get moved from one branch to another. Sabayon Linux has nothing to do with that process, that is all Gentoo runned.

The Gentoo community is a rough one, always has been. What Daniel's plans are, I don't know. Like I said, he has just joined our internal dev mailing list at Sabayon Linux. It was his idea to use the Sabayon Profession Edition name on the stable branch. How much involvement he will have is unknown to me, but him and Fabio share a lot of the same ideas.

I have no doubt in my mind that Gentoo will continue on as it always does. Sabayon will continue building in all possible ways that it can. Entropy is just another option along side all the other package managers out there.

ibendiben · 2008-01-25 10:52:21

wolfden wrote:

No offense taken.
A comparison to "Ubuntu Gentoo" is a good one, but the problem new people run into is the fact that gentoo is under the hood. They hose their system over and over again thinking they have to do this world update. They get mad and walk away from it. I tried to write that guide in as many steps possible so the new guy wouldn't be dealing with everything at one time. I want them to build it in small steps to help them get through the process. When that guide was written back in the 3.25 days, Sabayon was not designed for a world update at all and as time has past it has gotten better. The longer you wait from release date the harder it is going to get tho. It attracts a lot of ubuntu users and everyone knows how an ubuntu user thinks, they have no idea that linux can be different and expect a GUI for everything. This causes great frustration as they have to spend hours reading wikis and handbook. RTFM runs rampant and honestly the documentation is bountiful, but than they come whining that they have read it and still don't understand it. I despise ubuntu for that. I understand not every ubuntu user is like that, we just hear from the ones that are. Where is my GUI? Where is the Update Notification? What is konsole? Zomg sudo don't work, now what? Where is the easy button?
Spritz will be the GUI for binary package system. An update notification is on the todo list through entropy. Sudo should be working in latest releases. So yea, "Ubuntu Gentoo" fits the subject. It's innovation compared to the stale Gentoo project that is nothing but devs and users fighting. Have you seen the gentoo forum lately? It's a riot to read. Users vs. Devs, Devs vs. Users, Portage vs. Paludis, Paludis vs. pkgcore -- It's ridiculous.

Well said.
I'll definatally have a look at 3.5 ones it's released

lloeki · 2008-01-25 14:05:08

Have you seen the gentoo forum lately? It's a riot to read. Users vs. Devs, Devs vs. Users, Portage vs. Paludis, Paludis vs. pkgcore -- It's ridiculous.

wow. I sort of 'expected' it would turn out so when I was coming to arch.

The Gentoo community is a rough one, always has been

well, sorta, but the ambient noise was much more loud when I left than when I arrived, and occasionally reading what happens (by hearsay, or planet.g.o, or glancing at the forums) just reinforce the awkward feeling I have (partly explained by what I read at blog.funtoo.org).

that said, I never tried sabayon (and will not, as my distro hopping needs have stopped here)... but had I not found Arch beforehand, this was one of the specific distros I had targeted.

Last edited by lloeki (2008-01-25 14:06:50)

schivmeister · 2008-01-25 19:45:46

take wolfden's word for it, a seasoned Sabayonist and emerge -uvDN'er

Drobbins did have an eye for Sabayon since quite some time. He mentioned it in one of the depressed times.

With that said, I began learning Gentoo from Sabayon. And that's what got me going to a stage1 install of my now-working (gasp) Gentoo DAW. Once binary package management becomes a viable option (it was still at its infancy before 3.3(b), my last install of the distro), it will be yet another great addition to the ultimate-Linux-on-desktops, or whatever that is. !give me doughnut

genisis300 · 2008-01-26 20:25:09

I Tried Sabayon last night and was impressed i wouldn't move from arch now as I've got to stop hopping around,

However it did get me to thinking, Imagine if someone did that with Arch take the best from all the other version out there, I know the KISS is what Arch is about,. But it would make one hell of a main line distro.
i have seen the Faun OS and that looks pretty good... (just not for me)

anyhow that my 2 cents

koch · 2008-01-26 23:17:19

hello arch-community and especially to wolfden.
i use sabayon for about 8 months now and i like it very much. had some problems the last few weeks, most of them because of things like nvidia-driver, stupidness or similar things.
IMHO the future will be very interesting for/with sabayon because interesting things happen. perhaps gentoo itself will, oh i do not know the english word, gain profit (?) from sabayon.

why i am here?
i wanted a second OS which is a bit more, ermm, smaller than sabayon so i installed arch 3 days ago just for fun and, hey, i like it.

@wolden: nice to see you. never saw you writing so many words;) you know what i mean...

CuleX · 2008-01-27 15:05:59

What i like at gentoo is, that you can build a bunch of packages at one time. For example, you can just emerge your whole base system.

Under Arch, it would be nice to do that in a similar way. I like to have self the control over my base system. But for me it's not really interesting to recompile the whole fat libraries and apps like OOo, Xorg, qt, GTK etc.

I was a gentoo user and got tired of compiling. Really, Gentoo is an own concept, but it can be annoying.

wolfden · 2008-01-27 23:02:59

hey koch, you will like ArchLinux

I can relax over here on the arch side of things. ;-)

I agree CuleX - I would like to rebuild and I have started using AUR and yaurt and I even did the PKGBUILD to get 2.6.24-ARCH installed. I would love a way to yaurt system or something so it will recompile all current packages.

koch · 2008-01-28 00:09:16

wolfden wrote:

I can relax over here on the arch side of things. ;-)

it seems to be a bit more...(sorry, no native speaker)... quiete or, no, not relaxed but...easier( sorry again, ihave the german meaning in my mind, perhaps you understand what i mean)?

but i need a similar thing to your CF-howto for arch .

no, not at the moment. i will reinstall it this week with partitions changed, etc. this was just a "testing"-install.

see you "over there"...

wolfden · 2008-01-28 00:34:11

This works pretty slick
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Compiz-Fusion

I'm using my SL xorg, so it was all setup for C-F stuff. Installed, restarted X and was instantly working in about 3 minutes total time.

Also take a look at:
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=25718&p=1

It's a nice installer, a pacman on steroids

Last edited by wolfden (2008-01-28 00:36:45)

Zibi1981 · 2008-02-15 16:49:10

smitty wrote:

Any person here who have had a similar experience and could comment / give some perspectives?

I once tried Sabayon on my computer, I think it was 3.4e. Looks very nice and it did impress me that time. Although it relies on Gentoo, Sabayon is a user-friendly distribution and I was looking for something more challenging, if you know what I mean Sabayon is no match to Arch when it comes to flexibility and speed.
Sabayon is a good choice for Linux newbies, at least lazy newbies, who don't want to learn how to configure ones system from a text editor level. I think it's quite similar approach to that seen in Mandriva, Ubuntu or openSuSE. Good for a start, but not necessarily when you're enough ambitious and have the time to learn how it all works

cactus · 2008-02-15 17:12:01

wolfden wrote:

I would love a way to yaurt system or something so it will recompile all current packages.

take a look at srcpac.

wolfden · 2008-04-15 02:11:33

cactus wrote:

wolfden wrote:
I would love a way to yaurt system or something so it will recompile all current packages.
take a look at srcpac.

Thanks and Bookmarked! Sorry for the late reply but been busy with other things in the Sabayon world.

I plan on doing a new install on a much bigger partition so Arch Linux can have a permanent home. Now that the Professional Edition of Sabayon has been dropped it frees up a larger partition for Arch Linux.

trusktr · 2010-07-24 00:34:13

With Arch's package system, someone could easily set up a system like sabayon if they like.

fsckd · 2010-07-24 00:38:41

May I ask you trusktr, why you continue necrobumping despite the mods telling you it's against the forum rules to do so?

skottish · 2010-07-24 00:45:16

Yeah, and since nothing new has been added to this thread in years, I'm closing it.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-01-24 23:08:35

I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#2 2008-01-24 23:43:41

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#3 2008-01-24 23:52:55

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#4 2008-01-25 00:14:08

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#5 2008-01-25 00:55:26

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#6 2008-01-25 00:58:34

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#7 2008-01-25 01:05:57

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#8 2008-01-25 10:52:21

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#9 2008-01-25 14:05:08

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#10 2008-01-25 19:45:46

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#11 2008-01-26 20:25:09

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#12 2008-01-26 23:17:19

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#13 2008-01-27 15:05:59

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#14 2008-01-27 23:02:59

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#15 2008-01-28 00:09:16

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#16 2008-01-28 00:34:11

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#17 2008-02-15 16:49:10

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#18 2008-02-15 17:12:01

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#19 2008-04-15 02:11:33

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#20 2010-07-24 00:34:13

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#21 2010-07-24 00:38:41

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

#22 2010-07-24 00:45:16

Re: I just tried out Sabayon... any perspectives?

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