Is CF booting faster?

Mr Green · 2008-02-16 14:52:33

Hi,

I am thinking of using a CF card [via ide connector!] to try to improve boot time

Could /boot go on card then kernel would load from there?

As its read only read write issue would not be a problem

MrG

jacko · 2008-02-16 15:08:01

would not the transfer speed be the same for both IDE devices, HD and CF card?

sokkalf · 2008-02-16 15:13:17

Seek times won't matter much on /boot, it's just a couple of files anyway.

Where it will matter is where the kernel passes control to init, and all daemons starts loading etc.

You'd need to put the root filesystem on CF to notice the difference, I would think.

lilsirecho · 2008-02-16 15:51:05

Much ado here with CF/IDE.

In asus computer with a7v333 mobo and 3GB ram, the CF card Lexar displays 43MB/s in hdparm. It is 2GB 300x.

I haven't as yet had a boot up using that device.

I would assume that using the flash device in IDE without boot capability will give 43MB/sec performance in r/w.

I further see it as a good --cachedir for packages, loading at 43MB/sec and reading at same speed on installs via pacman.

As stated in other posts, boot time is probably only minimally faster but haven't had the pleasure yet.......

In a Live system such as Faunos, it would serve well for package management by keeping the Live flash drive independent from cache and providing an improved interface at boot time(no cache load to boot).

Some of my thoughts on the subject...--cachedir in this manner could fit any system using pacman including archlinux.

It reduces the power requirements and the heat load on the computer as well.

lilsirecho · 2008-02-16 15:54:19

One further observation...if booting a Live system into ram, the last elements of the boot are very fast...earlier boot segments are slower which probably reflects the previous postings remarks.

Mr Green · 2008-02-16 16:14:49

Ahhh ok.... kernel loading time would not be much quicker... would only free up partition space on hard drive.

toram well I not tried faunos in ram on my new system so may be worth a shot!

thanks

MrG

lilsirecho · 2008-02-16 16:28:22

Mr. Green;
To ram is slower than normal boot due to loading the contents of the flash drive and the ram install of parameters.

In my machine, the ram install of 1GB of Faunos results in full capacity of a 2GB ram . So boot time is longer and the ram in use is about four times that of normal Live boot.

Forget using ram install for boot time...only the last elements of the boot are visually faster.

Reducing the size of the normal boot of a Live system should improve boot time...thus use the cache flash for adding packages as needed which is faster installing than HDD IDE due to seek time elimination.

Just my approach....

Mr Green · 2008-02-16 16:43:06

Ok ... running 4gb of ram here so ... no loading to ram would of course take time but running speed would be quicker

lilsirecho · 2008-02-16 16:55:58

Mr Green;

I have booted into an intel 2GB ram 2.8ghz cpu mobo with an Adata 266x flash drive Compact/IDE install which installs the faunos live system from the point "starting faunos" to desktop sound in 13 seconds.

The Lexar 300x flash device is not recognized as udma 5 due to problems with libata-acpi in the kernels used in Faunos. The error in dmesg reports that "40-wire cable detected" and udma 2 is enabled.

The full use of UDMA 5 is as I described in previous post in an asus computer using hdx ID's. The Lexar 300x does not boot in that asus computer due to xorg fbsplash problems.(Frustration..frustration.!!!!)

I am hoping that the latest 2.6.24.2-1 (yes .2-1) will have a fix for this difficulty.

Faunos rc3 is coming out late today for testing and downloading takes six hours...maybe tomorrow will have more to report.

lilsirecho · 2008-02-16 17:00:24

Mr Green;

With CF/IDE the speed of the flash drive produces very acceptable performance versus install to ram.

lilsirecho · 2008-02-20 05:18:37

Mr.Green:

The following URL describes a patch that is supposed to allow UDMA in sata booted systems.

Since sata doesn't use 80-wire cables no detection of 80-wire cables is made. The system forces the HDD devices with udma capability to the udma2 mode.

The kernel patch in the URL below provides a forced 80-wire decision in sata based systems.

http://pixca.net/2008/02/03/limited-to- … ire-cable/

I invite you to peruse this data and decide for yourself if a kernel patch will be helpful for both CF/IDE and normal HDD IDE with 80-wire cables.

My CF/IDE runs at UDMA 5 in secondary master if not used as the boot device with Faunos in it. Boot in this case was primary master into archlinux which shows UDMA 6 in hdparm.

The 80-wire force in sata boots is badly needed since any install of Faunos into a HDD will be limited to 16MB/S=udma2. It doesn't only apply to CF/IDE devices but all devices needing UDMA sensing of 80-wire cable.

It seems we are stumbling along as usual!!!!

lilsirecho · 2008-02-22 04:54:31

Shadow release rc3 did not give any better performance...still has the 40-wire message in dmesg.

I have recommended that the patch be installed in Faunos because it reduces the spped of all IDE devices, not just the CF/IDE device. At least, it is something to test on Faun OS which just works!!!(except for udma probs).

Mr Green · 2008-02-22 06:22:00

Just thought running from CF would have helped boot times... also to ram option would have been quicker?

Never thought about ide vs sata, would you notice any real speed difference

While sitting here RAID popped in my head, would a live raid system increase performance [read only of course!] ?

Would like to have a lighter version of Faunos which of course would load even faster

MrG

lilsirecho · 2008-02-22 17:10:33

Haven't tried raid but it has the potential.

My adapter for the CF is master only so two cables would be necessary on the buss. I don
't know if raid works on a single cable interface master/slave but such adapters may not exist.

Another version of mine has either master or slave but not both.

I have used tmpfs for video files of 1GB and placed the player module in ram as well so all performs at ram speed. Vlc is the least load for the ram, mplayer with all depends is much bigger. With vlc scrolling through the picture is smooth and no loss of sync.

I am urging Raymano to include a patch fix for the UDMA problems of the ide-scsi-sata variety. I feel I have presented a good assessment of the fix which would be optional at boot time.

I find that the kernel params limit all IDE HDD's which exist on any buss to UDMA 2 when Faunos is booted. This isn't avoidable by any method other than a patch(can't easily change the Faunos kernel as a user).

In using my CF/IDE adapter, it must be master on the buss. If installed in slave position with an IDE in master position, the CF operates and is recognized as master and boots.

I note that CF/SATA adapters exist but I believe they operate in IDE mode and include chips and require power to convert to IDE.

I have generated a bug 9386 which tpowa rejected on grounds it was older kernel. Now the latest kernel in Faunos is later than the archlinux variety . I have added more info on the problem anyway because I cannot change the kernel in Faunos because I don't have the limitations and workarounds that Raymano has included, if any.

I am convinced everyone using IDE interface with Faunos has the same udma problem.

My computers both reject higher udma enables.

I suspect most computer users have no idea that such is occurring since bios info verifies the capability of their drives but it isn't recognized by the kernel.

As to boot to ram, it takes a great cut of the ram..I intend to use a flash cachedir and load from there into ram overlay thusly reducing the packages in the boot flash device. As a side note, loading direct to ram via pacman/aufs loads the program uncompressed in ram so no uncompression of squashfs is required.

Hope I haven't bored you to death!!!

lilsirecho · 2008-02-27 19:13:54

Mr. Green;

I have received data from Gradgrind which permitted the change of Faunos from sdx related to hdx related booting.

This enabled the CF/IDE interface to be recognized as udma 5 while booted into Faunos. It also recognized a hard drive as hd as well.

The hd designation is necessary to allow the system to accept the 80-wire interface and connect as UDMA devices greater than udma2. Hdparm for the booted CD/IDE in faunos was 42mb/s.

If you have further interest let me know.....

Mr Green · 2008-02-27 20:20:45

emmm live raid [software!] will read up [one drive/CF may not work!]

CF will check it out soon ... only would have to run it in slave as DVD is on same ide cable [but I could hack my grub config to get around it!]

You are not boring me, this stuff is a little over my head hehe

lilsirecho · 2008-02-27 22:05:14

Cannot achieve full udma speed if on same cable as DVD. Must be on 80-wire cable for UDMA 4,5,6 and the CF must be true IDE UDMA type.

Best to you....

Arch Linux

#1 2008-02-16 14:52:33

Is CF booting faster?

#2 2008-02-16 15:08:01

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#3 2008-02-16 15:13:17

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#4 2008-02-16 15:51:05

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#5 2008-02-16 15:54:19

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#6 2008-02-16 16:14:49

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#7 2008-02-16 16:28:22

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#8 2008-02-16 16:43:06

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#9 2008-02-16 16:55:58

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#10 2008-02-16 17:00:24

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#11 2008-02-20 05:18:37

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#12 2008-02-22 04:54:31

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#13 2008-02-22 06:22:00

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#14 2008-02-22 17:10:33

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#15 2008-02-27 19:13:54

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#16 2008-02-27 20:20:45

Re: Is CF booting faster?

#17 2008-02-27 22:05:14

Re: Is CF booting faster?

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