Noob question concerning rolling releases

new2arch · 2008-02-27 10:15:53

Hi,
I'm little confused on how the rolling release /snapshot iso downloads that are available, works.
For instance, if I look into 'Don't panic 2007.08', it comes with the latest kernel found in 'Don't panic 2007.08-2'.
What are then the differences between 2007.08 and 2007.08-2?

Also, the core ISO available for download point to the latest kernel - ftp://ftp.free.fr/mirrors/ftp.archlinux … 07.08/i686
but the date indicates it was uploaded: 2007-10-04 06:26:00. Does it still mean that if I download an ISO *now* from 'core', I will get the latest packages = same as the ones I would get if I chose to do a FTP-installation?

Last edited by new2arch (2008-02-27 10:18:47)

Allan · 2008-02-27 10:31:27

2007.08-2 was released when the repo structure changed (see http://www.archlinux.org/news/352/)

The iso's are a snapshot of the (core) packages available when they were released. If you just install of the disks then you will get some old packages. These can then be updated to the latest versions. Ftp install just downloads the latest versions immediately. So you have a choice about which method to use. If you have a slow connection then using the iso install method is probably best.

dyscoria · 2008-02-27 10:32:59

new2arch wrote:

What are then the differences between 2007.08 and 2007.08-2?

I think this is just a revision to remove bugs in the actual installer program.

new2arch wrote:

Does it still mean that if I download an ISO *now* from 'core', I will get the latest packages = same as the ones I would get if I chose to do a FTP-installation?

No, but as long as you have a good internet connection without a download limit, then it shouldn't matter. With rolling release, you simply upgrade the system with the 'pacman -Syu' command and everything suddenly becomes up to date (well, by suddenly i mean a few hundred megabytes later. this is only for the first update after an install though. updating regularly will mean each update will be usually no more than 15MB)

From the arch wiki

Arch Linux releases coincide with each major kernel version, but are merely a snapshot of the /core repository, combined with various features or modifications to the installer script itself. The rolling release model keeps every Arch Linux system current and on the bleeding edge by issuing one command.
For this reason, releases are not terribly important in Arch, because the rolling-release system makes new releases out of date as soon as a package has been updated. If you are looking to obtain the latest Arch Linux release, you do not need to reinstall. You simply run the pacman -Syu command and your system will be identical to what you would get with a brand-new install.
For this same reason, new Arch Linux releases are not typically full of new and exciting features. New and exciting features are released as needed with the packages that are updated, and can be obtained immediately via pacman -Syu.

new2arch · 2008-02-27 13:40:48

@Allan - I see. So for example, the kernel version marked in red in Duke simply warns that since Duke, the kernel has been upgraded to 2.6.24.1-2? http://www.archlinux.org/packages/?repo=Core

During an installation via the latest core iso I got multiple messages that I had to perform quite a few manual adjustment to the system in order for it to work properly. I didn't pay attention to these questions too well because at that point I opted to do an ftp-installation instead, but it had something to do with different locations of several files in the snapshot version that needed to be corrected...
So I figured I'd get the latest and most bleeding packages by downloading the latest iso but I guess was wrong.

@Alan and dyscoria - Yes, I find ftp-installations to be pretty neat since there's no need to do any upgrades post-installation but I'm little concerned about the security. How secure is it to download and install via ftp if I'm directly connected to the internet, e.g., no router/FW hardware?
I noticed there was a Secure Shell daemon active during installation that didn't come back when the installation was finished. If this somehow improves the security, I don't know? Portmap was also active which I normally prefer having removed.
While very few services are active (I think 3-4 tops), I don't feel 100% confident by installing via ftp/http.
A local nmap scan reveals all ports are closed though.

However, I found out that it is possible to download and install Iptables + Quicktables (very nice!) right after the required post-installation reboot, and before installing stuff like graphic drivers. So in total the "open window" of being connected to the internet without any protection is around 15 minutes, compared to perhaps 1 hour if you choose to install the iptables and firewall only after installing the desktop manager.

Last edited by new2arch (2008-02-27 13:45:01)

Allan · 2008-02-27 14:04:20

The red means that it is currently flagged out of date. E.g for the kernel 2.6.24.3 was released recently. The link you gave is the current core repo contents. You will learn that with the rolling release system, labels like "Duke" are of very little meaning once you system is installed. A simple "pacman -Syu" and the packages you have installed will be the same as everyone else who is using Arch, no matter what iso they used to originally install the packages. When using Arch, your are expected to be keeping reasonably up to date with all package updates.

I suppose I have never really thought about security while installing as I have always been behind a router of some kind and tend to install from the iso and not ftp. Given most services are not enabled by default in Arch, I would not be too concerned... As your scan showed, when nothing is enabled, your system is quite closed anyway.

new2arch · 2008-02-27 14:57:08

Allan wrote:

The red means that it is currently flagged out of date. E.g for the kernel 2.6.24.3 was released recently. The link you gave is the current core repo contents. You will learn that with the rolling release system, labels like "Duke" are of very little meaning once you system is installed. A simple "pacman -Syu" and the packages you have installed will be the same as everyone else who is using Arch, no matter what iso they used to originally install the packages. When using Arch, your are expected to be keeping reasonably up to date with all package updates.
I suppose I have never really thought about security while installing as I have always been behind a router of some kind and tend to install from the iso and not ftp. Given most services are not enabled by default in Arch, I would not be too concerned... As your scan showed, when nothing is enabled, your system is quite closed anyway.

Thanks Alan, I think I understand how the release system works.
So if a user would like to download less updates after an installation, he could wait for the next iso release instead.

Security: yeah, I probably should invest in a router with firewalling capabilities!
But I know many users don't use any firewall saying that closed ports are closed - there's really no need to stealth them. But having a firewall and very few services going is basic security IMO.

I especially appreciate distros such as Arch and Zenwalk because there aren't many daemons active compared to others that can have 20 or more services running.

Last edited by new2arch (2008-02-27 14:57:58)

eerok · 2008-02-27 15:47:38

new2arch wrote:

Thanks Alan, I think I understand how the release system works.
So if a user would like to download less updates after an installation, he could wait for the next iso release instead.
Security: yeah, I probably should invest in a router with firewalling capabilities!
But I know many users don't use any firewall saying that closed ports are closed - there's really no need to stealth them. But having a firewall and very few services going is basic security IMO.

Although you've already installed, I think you might've liked this wiki guide. This way you get everything fresh -- and you can run a firewall on the host, if you're concerned about that. Of course a NAT router is a good idea.

new2arch · 2008-02-27 19:01:48

eerok wrote:

Although you've already installed, I think you might've liked this wiki guide. This way you get everything fresh -- and you can run a firewall on the host, if you're concerned about that. Of course a NAT router is a good idea.

Thanks for the tip eerok. Very cool and geeky indeed! :-D
It's been bookmarked for future use!

Arch Linux

#1 2008-02-27 10:15:53

Noob question concerning rolling releases

#2 2008-02-27 10:31:27

Re: Noob question concerning rolling releases

#3 2008-02-27 10:32:59

Re: Noob question concerning rolling releases

#4 2008-02-27 13:40:48

Re: Noob question concerning rolling releases

#5 2008-02-27 14:04:20

Re: Noob question concerning rolling releases

#6 2008-02-27 14:57:08

Re: Noob question concerning rolling releases

#7 2008-02-27 15:47:38

Re: Noob question concerning rolling releases

#8 2008-02-27 19:01:48

Re: Noob question concerning rolling releases

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