If you don't use, you lose it?

Xs1t0ry · 2008-03-06 03:22:59

Hi

As programmers, do you feel that you tend to forget a language if you haven't used it in a while? I'm learning Python right now and I'm kind of concerned about this because my job entails that I have to travel and have no access to a computer on my trips (or even time to read). I remember I took a course two years ago that was flash-based and basically taught ActionScript and how to make flash apps. I forgot it almost instantly. Granted, I had a horrible teacher and work environment and basically copied code from a book. But still. If you don't use it, do ya lose it?

Allan · 2008-03-06 03:49:39

Not necessarily... I tend to find that as long as you remember the general concepts, you can come back to a language that you haven't used in a while and pick it up fairly quickly. Sure, you will forget some of the more subtle tricks but they are often a lot easier to find having once known they existed.

Dusty · 2008-03-06 04:19:28

I tend to carry things over from one language to another. Sometimes after coding Java I start inserting semi-colons in my python code and that's just embarrassing.

But mostly programming is more about design than syntax and most of the practical/applicable languages these days require you to have similar ideas about program design. Some people contest this, but even when you code C, its a good idea to have OO practices in mind, even though you won't be coding using objects, for example.

Dusty

peets · 2008-03-06 05:54:33

I find it depends on the language and the conditions in which it was learned. The first ever programming language that I learned was C++, and I had a hard time, a bad book, no objectives, no teachers, etc.: I had a bad experience, and today I've forgotten the subtleties of C++ (and somehow thinking of it makes me feel bitter).

I learned Perl at the same time as I discovered Linux/Unix. I am very fond of Perl, and I tend to remember a lot of details about it; maybe that's because I use linux daily at home, and Perl is very Unix-ish.

The important thing is finding out if you'll be able to remember quickly when you must resume making use of the language.

Xs1t0ry · 2008-03-06 06:20:20

But if I can't just recall it at will, am I SOL?

pauldonnelly · 2008-03-06 17:18:31

Xs1t0ry wrote:

But if I can't just recall it at will, am I SOL?

I wouldn't worry about it. It's easy to forget the names of keywords in a language, but it's easy enough to skim through cheat sheet and refresh your memory. You're not going to forget how to think like a programmer. OTOH, if you haven't learned that yet, this may not be the easiest time in your life to do so.

But I'm curious about what kind of job makes you travel a lot but doesn't pay you well enough to get even a second hand laptop that you can spend 45 minutes playing with before you go to bed.

phrakture · 2008-03-06 19:37:46

I think, maybe once a day, I do the "uhh, is if print?... no echo?.... ummm put?.... puts? wtf!"

Xs1t0ry · 2008-03-06 20:46:24

pauldonnelly wrote:

Xs1t0ry wrote:
But if I can't just recall it at will, am I SOL?
I wouldn't worry about it. It's easy to forget the names of keywords in a language, but it's easy enough to skim through cheat sheet and refresh your memory. You're not going to forget how to think like a programmer. OTOH, if you haven't learned that yet, this may not be the easiest time in your life to do so.
But I'm curious about what kind of job makes you travel a lot but doesn't pay you well enough to get even a second hand laptop that you can spend 45 minutes playing with before you go to bed.

Military Basic Training. I need to go to the "base" 6 times a month for about 1-3 days each time and they treat us like shit with zero luxuries (so no laptop or even books). It will be over in June (thank God).

You might be wondering why I am doing this and it is because it is mandatory as a part of my agreement with the government--they are paying me 60k and paying my tuition (so in reality app. 100k) for a software engineering degree in exchange for coding defence software and stuff. It seems like a good deal to me. (I am in my final year of high school and I have good marks and military experience.) I am just learning Python because I want to get a leg up and I enjoy doing it.

coarseSand · 2008-03-06 22:04:39

Xs1t0ry wrote:

Military Basic Training. I need to go to the "base" 6 times a month for about 1-3 days each time and they treat us like shit with zero luxuries (so no laptop or even books). It will be over in June (thank God).
You might be wondering why I am doing this and it is because it is mandatory as a part of my agreement with the government--they are paying me 60k and paying my tuition (so in reality app. 100k) for a software engineering degree in exchange for coding defence software and stuff. It seems like a good deal to me. (I am in my final year of high school and I have good marks and military experience.) I am just learning Python because I want to get a leg up and I enjoy doing it.

Ahhhh yes, the good old ROTP is it? One of my friends did basic last summer. It's absolute hell, but you'll enjoy the rest of your time. I'd say wait on Python until June, then start studying, but that's because I find it really hard to study a language piecemeal myself. If you won't have the time to think about the language during your downtime, don't focus on it for the moment, study something you already know and try to improve that instead of learning something new.

Xs1t0ry · 2008-03-06 22:27:56

I may just focus more on my usage and manipulation of Linux and dabble a bit in general programming concepts, using Python as a medium. On a semi-related note, are books good assets for learning a language or are you better sticking to online--and free!--tuts?

ssjlegendx · 2008-03-07 00:56:15

Xs1t0ry wrote:

On a semi-related note, are books good assets for learning a language or are you better sticking to online--and free!--tuts?

I personally enjoy purchasing and "collecting" books on Linux, programming languages, etc. Unfortunately, however, I seldom read the books I have.

Overall, I have probably gained much more computer-related knowledge from online sources than I have from "real" books. Many things can be learned just by looking around a language's API documentation. Forums (such as these) are also a good source of information.

Take any programming language, think of some keywords related to tasks you'd like to accomplish, and see what Google can do for you.

Last edited by ssjlegendx (2008-03-07 02:18:32)

SiC · 2008-03-07 22:38:32

Re-using a language you haven't used in a while is like riding a bike, it takes you a little bit to get your stride back but its not difficult. I hadn't used pascal for years until just before the holidays, took me about an half hour skimming a reference book to get my bearings again... Good books are like gold-dust, find them and hang on to them.

I regularly code in C/C++ but I still keep a quick reference on hand because I regularly forget function arguments, anyway, what i'm saying is get a couple of good reference books for each language and you are set.

coarseSand · 2008-03-08 03:32:45

ssjlegendx wrote:

Xs1t0ry wrote:
On a semi-related note, are books good assets for learning a language or are you better sticking to online--and free!--tuts?
I personally enjoy purchasing and "collecting" books on Linux, programming languages, etc. Unfortunately, however, I seldom read the books I have.

I have an O'Reilly addiction. They really do put out some of the best technical material I've ever read, so I have Learning Python, Learning PHP, Running Linux, four of their Headfirst series (XHTML & CSS, JavaScript, SQL, AJAX, my college program is a lot of web development) and a very illegitimate copy of Learning Vi, at least until I buy it in my next round of book purchasing.

So, um, yeah. Give O'Reilly a try. Most of those I bought in anticipation of getting through this summer, as I never have time to study with my workload at school.

pauldonnelly · 2008-03-08 05:47:41

Xs1t0ry wrote:

pauldonnelly wrote:
But I'm curious about what kind of job makes you travel a lot but doesn't pay you well enough to get even a second hand laptop that you can spend 45 minutes playing with before you go to bed.
Military Basic Training.

Ah, that will do it. I was thinking of business trips or something.

Xs1t0ry · 2008-03-08 20:05:52

coarseSand wrote:

ssjlegendx wrote:
Xs1t0ry wrote:
On a semi-related note, are books good assets for learning a language or are you better sticking to online--and free!--tuts?
I personally enjoy purchasing and "collecting" books on Linux, programming languages, etc. Unfortunately, however, I seldom read the books I have.
I have an O'Reilly addiction. They really do put out some of the best technical material I've ever read, so I have Learning Python, Learning PHP, Running Linux, four of their Headfirst series (XHTML & CSS, JavaScript, SQL, AJAX, my college program is a lot of web development) and a very illegitimate copy of Learning Vi, at least until I buy it in my next round of book purchasing.
So, um, yeah. Give O'Reilly a try. Most of those I bought in anticipation of getting through this summer, as I never have time to study with my workload at school.

Sounds good. I'm thinking of getting:

To learn: Beginning Python by Hetland
To reference: Python in a Nutshell (O'Reilly) - Is this what I'm looking for?

That should do it for Python, for Linux using I think I'll stick to the online documentation since there is so much of it (or maybe print out some reference .txts and make a nice little book ). Thanks for all the help so far!

coarseSand · 2008-03-09 00:11:53

I have the Apress book for GIMP 2.4 and I'm not terribly impressed with it. Make sure you scour the review sections of sites before you buy any books from a company you don't know, otherwise you may waste your money.

SiC · 2008-03-09 00:41:24

coarseSand wrote:

I have the Apress book for GIMP 2.4 and I'm not terribly impressed with it. Make sure you scour the review sections of sites before you buy any books from a company you don't know, otherwise you may waste your money.

Either that or head down to your local bookstore and see if they have it in stock.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-03-06 03:22:59

If you don't use, you lose it?

#2 2008-03-06 03:49:39

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#3 2008-03-06 04:19:28

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#4 2008-03-06 05:54:33

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#5 2008-03-06 06:20:20

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#6 2008-03-06 17:18:31

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#7 2008-03-06 19:37:46

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#8 2008-03-06 20:46:24

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#9 2008-03-06 22:04:39

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#10 2008-03-06 22:27:56

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#11 2008-03-07 00:56:15

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#12 2008-03-07 22:38:32

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#13 2008-03-08 03:32:45

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#14 2008-03-08 05:47:41

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#15 2008-03-08 20:05:52

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#16 2008-03-09 00:11:53

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

#17 2008-03-09 00:41:24

Re: If you don't use, you lose it?

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