What is the plan with TeXLive?

bender02 · 2008-04-16 19:10:54

attila wrote:

@bender02 For me it does not matter that texlive is been for a live cd because now at the moment texlive replaces tetex because it is unmaintained and so it would be fine to have a easier way to create packages.

Of course it would be fine. But "texlive replaces tetex" is a statement from Thomas Esser, who has nothing to do with texlive. I was trying to explain why it's totally up to texlive developers whether they decide to 'support linux distros in the way you want it' or not. While it would be of course desirable for us, they might have totally different goals.

It's like if Linus Torvalds would say "I'm ditching the kernel, linux is obsolete, go and use FreeBSD", and we run to freebsd devs asking why the heck you do this and that differently than in linux?

attila wrote:

My personal great dream will be a core tex package in combination with that files from ctan can be downloaded and packaged i an easy way by everybody without searching hours to understand the organization of the file structure. But this is not the reality and i can accept that but i don't have to wish it or to be satisfied with this.

Well, your dream is also my dream, but I don't think it's going to happen in reasonable time, the way it's going now.

Stefan Husmann · 2008-04-16 20:01:10

Thomas Esser did not say "TeXLive replaces teTeX". All he suggested was that people interested in teTeX should join the TeXLive team.

BTW. many of the scripts in TeXLive are taken from teTeX and (at least co-) written by Thomas (texdoc, texconfig, updmap, fmtutil, texhash).

bender02 · 2008-04-16 20:03:41

Stefan Husmann wrote:

Thomas Esser did not say "TeXLive replaces teTeX". All he suggested was that people interested in teTeX should join the TeXLive team.

Ooops, sorry. But my point remains valid

attila · 2008-04-17 04:29:57

Only for the stats the story starts with this statement on the tetex homepage:

I (Thomas Esser) have decided not to make new releases of teTeX any more (May 2006). The information below might get out of date as time goes by. I suggest anybody interested in teTeX to join the TeX Live project.

This is the reason why i don't see texlive "only" as live cd but i don't think we have to discuss this again.:)

Ramses de Norre · 2008-04-17 09:54:40

Sigi wrote:

Ramses de Norre wrote:
bender02 wrote:
EDIT: I just checked ('cd /var/abs/core; grep tetex */PKGBUILD'): no packages in core depend on tetex. From extra only these: kile, latex2html, lyx, texmacs; makedeps: evince, kdegraphics, yodl.
Mind makedepends, the only packages in extra really depending on tetex are texmacs, latex2html, lyx and kile.
I found this like this:
find /var/abs/extra/ -name PKGBUILD|xargs grep tetex|grep ":depends"
That's exactly what bender02 wrote.

He changed his post then..

bender02 · 2008-04-17 14:18:07

Ramses de Norre wrote:

Sigi wrote:
Ramses de Norre wrote:
Mind makedepends, the only packages in extra really depending on tetex are texmacs, latex2html, lyx and kile.
I found this like this:
find /var/abs/extra/ -name PKGBUILD|xargs grep tetex|grep ":depends"
That's exactly what bender02 wrote.
He changed his post then..

And changed also yours in the quote ...

Ramses de Norre · 2008-04-18 10:11:38

bender02 wrote:

Ramses de Norre wrote:
Sigi wrote:
That's exactly what bender02 wrote.
He changed his post then..
And changed also yours in the quote ...

Hmm, guess I totally misread his post then..:/

inXistant · 2008-04-21 04:22:25

If I may... This discussion is just going off.

a) teTeX is *obsolete* and has been for a year!
b) Arch is supposed to be *bleeding edge*.
c) The actual status of TeXLive works quite well for me for TeX (packaging), ConTeX (thesis) and LaTeX (papers) but still
d) Interest or not, I think it is quite annoying to have this contradiction between a) and b) and, for some, to handle dependency problems.

I just want to say that although I think Arch is the best distro there is (for me at least), my first tool is *TeX and I'm a bit disappointed about the current status of *TeX here.

This can be considered as a useless tentative to bring water to the mill on the 'interest' side.

No hard feelings anyway...

Cheers!

Last edited by inXistant (2008-04-21 04:23:38)

bender02 · 2008-04-21 04:43:51

inXistant wrote:

If I may... This discussion is just going off.

Unfortunately.

inXistant wrote:

c) The actual status of TeXLive works quite well for me for TeX (packaging), ConTeX (thesis) and LaTeX (papers) but still
...
I just want to say that although I think Arch is the best distro there is (for me at least), my first tool is *TeX and I'm a bit disappointed about the current status of *TeX here.

I also found that Arch is best linux for me, and I mainly use it for TeXing papers. But I'm not disappointed by the current status - although of course it could be improved, but that would require some attention of the devs, who don't use TeX much, so apparently it's not their priority. The thing is, as far as I understand, there are currently only two distributions in the *nix world that have TeXlive nicely and usefully packaged: debian and ... guess what else ... arch.

I'm just veeery happy that I don't have to install it manually. Thanks, Firmicus!

I'll try to bring the texlive issue up on the mailing list... hopefully devs will take some action at some point. My main hope is that they publicly announce that arch will be switching to texlive eventually. That should back us up when we start to nag people maintaining AUR and community packages depending on tetex to change the dependencies to texlive.

inXistant · 2008-04-21 04:53:52

bender02 wrote:

inXistant wrote:
If I may... This discussion is just going off.
Unfortunately.
inXistant wrote:
c) The actual status of TeXLive works quite well for me for TeX (packaging), ConTeX (thesis) and LaTeX (papers) but still
...
I just want to say that although I think Arch is the best distro there is (for me at least), my first tool is *TeX and I'm a bit disappointed about the current status of *TeX here.
I also found that Arch is best linux for me, and I mainly use it for TeXing papers. But I'm not disappointed by the current status - although of course it could be improved, but that would require some attention of the devs, who don't use TeX much, so apparently it's not their priority. The thing is, as far as I understand, there are currently only two distributions in the *nix world that have TeXlive nicely and usefully packaged: debian and ... guess what else ... arch.
I'm just veeery happy that I don't have to install it manually. Thanks, Firmicus!
I'll try to bring the texlive issue up on the mailing list... hopefully devs will take some action at some point. My main hope is that they publicly announce that arch will be switching to texlive eventually. That should back us up when we start to nag people maintaining AUR and community packages depending on tetex to change the dependencies to texlive.

[I feel list-y today]

i) About the distros: Right... Fedora is comming in about 22 days though.
ii) I've been rude: Thanks, indeed, Firmicus! As I said, I did not had any problems with TeXLive so far so great job indeed! My point was really about the 'status' of TeXLive.

Stefan Husmann · 2008-04-21 06:49:59

I am not sure but I think the Debian distribution relies on Texlive 2007 only, I do not think they have something comparable to the -svn-versions Firmicus maintaines.

If Fedora comes with Texlive packages in 22 days these probably are outdated when they com out. Texlive 2008 is expected for June, and there will be big changes.

BTW: Which versions do you use, the stable ones or th -svn-versions? I prefer the svn versions from community.

inXistant · 2008-04-21 07:16:27

Stable for me. I work on my thesis/papers and this is the place where I need to be sure *nothing* goes funny.

bender02 · 2008-04-21 14:52:43

I sent something to arch-general ML: http://archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-gen … 17441.html
Please contribute if you feel strongly about it.

*inXistant: the only way to be sure that nothing breaks is to *not upgrade* while the thesis is on the table (I need to submit my dissertation today
@stefan: i use core-svn, the rest no svn.

Stefan Husmann · 2008-04-21 16:06:49

Well formulated. So let's wait on reactions.

inXistant · 2008-04-21 18:30:25

bender02 wrote:

I sent something to arch-general ML: http://archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-gen … 17441.html
Please contribute if you feel strongly about it.

Thanks!

bender02 wrote:

(I need to submit my dissertation today

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!! Don't speak about submission!!!!! -- this being said. Congrats!

Last edited by inXistant (2008-04-21 18:31:25)

Stefan Husmann · 2008-04-21 19:23:20

Congrats from me too!

bender02 · 2008-04-22 15:39:39

Thanks guys. Submitted - now I need to defend

Anyway, the response in arch-general was pretty small (read: 3 emails); so it seems nobody really cares - it's true that using texlive is pretty painless once you know it's there.

What we need is more publicity for texlive: I'll contact the tetex maintainer with a request to add a message like "tetex is unmaintained upstream, there's texlive in community" to tetex install script.

Then we should maybe write an article about texlive to the newsletter - so that people know about it.
(So that they don't submit to AUR packages like latex-beamer depending on tetex

inXistant · 2008-04-22 15:51:04

Good luck for the defense!

Now I need to think about starting to think about the possibility of perhaps consider writing my thesis... Argh. I submit in two months...

I'm with you for TeXLive. Write me if you feel you need help in anyway.

bender02 · 2008-04-23 01:43:39

All right, Jason suggested to file a feature request on bugtracker (that's how he keeps track of things), so here it is: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/10256
Vote for it, if you think that it might help

Sigi · 2008-04-23 05:23:17

Voted. Using TeXLive here. Thanks to everyone who helps maintaining it and pushing it into the "Arch mainstream", I think firmicus deserves a thank you here for his great work.

Arch Linux

#26 2008-04-16 19:10:54

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#27 2008-04-16 20:01:10

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#28 2008-04-16 20:03:41

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#29 2008-04-17 04:29:57

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#30 2008-04-17 09:54:40

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#31 2008-04-17 14:18:07

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#32 2008-04-18 10:11:38

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#33 2008-04-21 04:22:25

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#34 2008-04-21 04:43:51

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#35 2008-04-21 04:53:52

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#36 2008-04-21 06:49:59

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#37 2008-04-21 07:16:27

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#38 2008-04-21 14:52:43

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#39 2008-04-21 16:06:49

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#40 2008-04-21 18:30:25

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#41 2008-04-21 19:23:20

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#42 2008-04-22 15:39:39

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#43 2008-04-22 15:51:04

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#44 2008-04-23 01:43:39

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

#45 2008-04-23 05:23:17

Re: What is the plan with TeXLive?

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