Arch Linux

indoultimate

Member

Registered: 2008-06-10

Posts: 9

yes...it is better than ubuntu

well...at last now i understand the simplicity of arch will have great experience in my desktop...its really fast compare to other distro i have tried....simple and fast....thanks for this community

finferflu

Forum Fellow

From: Manchester, UK

Registered: 2007-06-21

Posts: 1,899

Website

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

Better is quite a relative judgement, however I understand how good you can feel running Arch. I bet there will be many happy Ubuntu campers as well, though

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Bapman

Member

From: Ottawa, Canada

Registered: 2007-09-02

Posts: 140

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

Yeah, as many of the new people here, I come from Ubuntu and I will stick with Arch for a long time I think !

But I second finferflu, Arch is not better than Ubuntu, just different. It is really good for you if you are not afraid to use the command-line. It requires more knowledges concerning Linux but the good side of it is that it is easy to learn with our community (forum and wiki). Moreover, you have learned something by installing Arch and you are more able to fix your system after that.

Of course, what is really better is the bleeding edge concept of Arch. I was really bored to wait 6 month for a really important update, or refreshing getdeb every day !

Last edited by Bapman (2008-06-10 16:58:52)

hBd

Member

From: Romania - Cluj Napoca

Registered: 2008-06-08

Posts: 241

Website

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

I come from Zenwalk, i just come to Arch coz i like the pkg management, and the lightweight, and simplicity of Arch!!! Zenwalk is a good distro to, i used for 3 years ^^, but now hope that i gonna use Arch for a long time!

Shadowmeph

Member

From: West Coast Canada

Registered: 2008-05-19

Posts: 208

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

Well the only think that I like about Ubuntu is that all I need to do ( with Ubuntu Hardy) to get my HD ATI video card working is turn on the Hardware drivers. for some reason or other I haven't been able to get my Video card working properly, other then that I personally Love Arch I learn something everyday when using it .

underpenguin

Member

Registered: 2007-02-01

Posts: 116

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

One huge reason why I think arch > ubuntu is the community. Sure, ubuntu has a huge community, but most archers really know what they are doing and seem just generally more intelligent. Much higher signal to noise IMHO.

sniffles

Member

Registered: 2008-01-23

Posts: 275

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

Moreover, you have learned something by installing Arch

What have *you* learned? I'm just curious.

and you are more able to fix your system after that.

Hmm? Are you saying all Arch users can fix their systems on their own in case they break or what? This forum would have a lot less threads if that were the case, methinks.

I was really bored to wait 6 month for a really important update

If you had to wait 6 months for it, chances are it wasn't really that important. Perhaps the updates were important to you, but this couldn't have happened more than a few times and couldn't have concerned more than a few applications. Anyway, one of these days that "bleeding edge" love will byte you in the arse, take caution.

vogt

Member

From: Toronto, Canada

Registered: 2006-11-25

Posts: 389

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

... that "bleeding edge" love will byte you in the arse...

What a picture.

But it does happen sometimes. In other circles it's called masochism.

Misfit138

Misfit Emeritus

From: USA

Registered: 2006-11-27

Posts: 4,189

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

I learned a lot coming to Arch. Technically, the so-called "newbie distros" force one to learn their own methodology also. For instance, one has to learn how to use the PCLinuxOS control center. It's a GUI, but you still have to learn it. It also forces you to learn Synaptic. SuSE forces you to learn YaST.
Arch is command line oriented and taught me what a GNU/Linux system actually is. Before I came to Arch, I associated the GUI and branding of other distros with what GNU/Linux actually was. Since they were so GUI-driven, I did not know the command line; BASH, configuration files, coreutils, wireless-tools, ifconfig...etc.
I learned how to use CFdisk to partition drives, how to generate and configure an Xorg.conf. I learned what /etc/resolv.conf, /etc/locale.gen, and /etc/fstab were. I learned how to use GRUB. Simply getting my hands on these files from the installation onward was exactly what I needed and how I needed to learn it; from the ground up.
Of course, with ANY distro, I could have learned the same exact stuff. GUI-driven is really fine with me, as long as it works, and it usually did, or sometimes did.
Aside from the distro specific pacman, I could have slowly learned to associate my exposure to the command line on a newbie distro, and along with the dogshit poor documentation spread out across the web, I could have built up a spotty understanding of what was going on "under the hood", but it would have taken me a long time.
With Arch, you are given a Linux From Scratch system, precompiled, along with a few extra command line tools for convenience. The minimalism of the environment had me a little panicked at first, and when I installed it, there was no Beginner's Guide. Ironically, the minimal environment forced me to learn and become comfortable with what GNU/Linux actually is; the kernel and GNU. I think this "ground-up" approach was really the best way, at least for me, to get to know the OS.
I have been using Arch for 2 years now and I still love it and I am still learning. I have a lot to learn.

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Bapman

Member

From: Ottawa, Canada

Registered: 2007-09-02

Posts: 140

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

What have *you* learned? I'm just curious.

How Linux works... at least a little bit ! No seriously, the list of what I learned with Arch is too long (manage users, understand what daemons do as hal or dbus, manage wireless connexions, alsa....). You can learn it in Ubuntu but since everything is already installed I didn't. I only learn when something is broken or to be installed... And most people do that unfortunately
As Misfit said, I know understand a lot of .conf files that I couldn't bear under Ubuntu

Hmm? Are you saying all Arch users can fix their systems on their own in case they break or what? This forum would have a lot less threads if that were the case, methinks.

That is why the " *more* able " was for. I have made things working in Arch without help whereas I always had to ask before. Of course I need help sometimes but less than before. By the way I am stuck with Samba right now (yes, I put advertisement in my posts... what a poor Linux user) !

If you had to wait 6 months for it, chances are it wasn't really that important. Perhaps the updates were important to you, but this couldn't have happened more than a few times and couldn't have concerned more than a few applications. Anyway, one of these days that "bleeding edge" love will byte you in the arse, take caution.

I know bleeding edge can be dangerous, but I am ok with it and I can't blame Arch for it. Many bugs are from upstream and Arch developers can't do much about it. Anyway my Arch install has been really stable for a while and many people say so. My Ubuntu installs were always broken after a while since I was always trying to install new packages that required an enormous amount of libs to be updated...
I am the kind of people who like to have the latest version of an app. I updated major ones in Ubuntu but I really got bored since this process was quite difficult with it. Also I want to underline how easy it is to compile an app with Arch thanks to the simplicity of PKGBUILDs.

Nice avatar by the way

edit : while I was writing this post, Misfit described what you can learn in his better post. I second him when he say that you really learn with GNU/Linux configuration files and not GUI based configuration apps.

Last edited by Bapman (2008-06-10 20:38:30)

sniffles

Member

Registered: 2008-01-23

Posts: 275

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

OK SRSLY Misfit138 is your handle Bapman ? *waits* I THOUGHT NOT! Just kidding.. I knew all (or most, too tired to re-read) of those things before comming to Arch. (reasoning behind this line later in this post, don't change the channel)

Bapman: When I've read "How Linux works" I was getting ready to start my post, but then you ruined it for me and added "at least a little bit!" . Hmm.. so basically what you're saying is that under Ubuntu you didn't *have* to learn (except for those cases when your system got b0rked, as you say). I'm not sure what's actually -wrong- with that. Those who want to learn will learn without having to be forced to do it.

You make Ubuntu sound terribly buggy. I simply can not comprehend why so many Linux users would pick this particular distribution given its instability. I hear Windows is unstable and breaks a lot too (I don't know, I haven't used it in a while, and last time I used it I don't remember all that breakage, nor do I remember having BSODs, etc.) but the transition from Windows to Linux (or BSD, or whatever) is much more difficult than from Ubuntu to <some other linux distribution which is not as unstable>. Anyway, I'll take your word for it.

But then you say "this process was quite difficult with it". Hm, now you're saying upgrading stuff in Ubuntu is a difficult task? This distribution sounds harder to use than Slackware.

"Nice avatar by the way" -- Thanks, it's original. There's a guy around here ( http://bbs.archlinux.org/profile.php?id=14504 ) who's copying me but .. eh.

EDIT: Forgot the promise of a reason. The "teaching" argument is dropped alot.
If you use Linux you'll just know Linux but if you use FreeBSD you'll know UNIX
If you use Fedora you'll just know Fedora but if you use Slackware you'll know Linux
If you use Ubuntu you'll just know Ubuntu but if you use Arch you'll know Linux

blah blah. Using any Linux distribution does not imply you can handle any other distribution. Using Arch / Slackware / Gentoo / Debian / OpenBSD / whatever does not make you an expert. Be aware that there are probably many .. Many .. much .. Much more knowledgeable (when compared to  you) users running GUI-centric distributions such as Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE, etc.

Last edited by sniffles (2008-06-10 20:57:36)

Bapman

Member

From: Ottawa, Canada

Registered: 2007-09-02

Posts: 140

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

In my first answer I specified that Arch is not better than Ubuntu, just different. I am still sure that you learn more installing Arch than Ubuntu when you are quite a Linux Beginner like me.

Then I think there is a misunderstanding between us : I didn't want to say that Ubuntu was unstable or buggy. It is not. It is really stable, that's why my server runs Ubuntu (yes I know, Ubuntu is not suited for servers, but it is for my school, and people who will replace me have never used Linux before. So it is a good start).

But I am still sure that when you want to have the latest software on Ubuntu, it takes you a lot of time. You have to recompile from source and recompile also many libs. On Arch, libs are almost always up-to-date (or sufficient for your app) and with aur, you can find a lot updated apps...

I am really happy with Arch so stop ruining my moment of happiness sniffles , I was just answering a post and I was gentle with Ubuntu !

sniffles

Member

Registered: 2008-01-23

Posts: 275

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

HAHA Ok ok. Enjoy your Arch experience!

Bapman

Member

From: Ottawa, Canada

Registered: 2007-09-02

Posts: 140

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

Thanks ! Finally !

Misfit138

Misfit Emeritus

From: USA

Registered: 2006-11-27

Posts: 4,189

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

OK SRSLY Misfit138 is your handle Bapman ? *waits* I THOUGHT NOT!

Oh, I thought you were talking to me.
Sorry...
/me slithers away grumbling about abscesses........

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fuscia

Member

Registered: 2008-04-21

Posts: 398

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

i learned a lot more going from windows to ubuntu than i learned going from ubuntu to arch. i doubt i would have been able to go from windows to arch, just being an end user, though. i took a lot of the 'auto' choices when i installed arch, so i guess i ducked some of the learning others have gone through. comparing the two distros is a bit silly as they're really setting out to do different things. it's a little like saying "my dog is better than that orange" "well...yeah, at being a dog (duh!)".

Galdona

Member

Registered: 2006-03-15

Posts: 196

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

Yep, I think it is better too! However, I suppose Ubuntu helped ease me into Linux.

sniffles

Member

Registered: 2008-01-23

Posts: 275

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

My dog is better than that orange at being an orange!

Alas, fuscia: don't be so sure about you not having been able to go from Windows to Arch. Sure this 'new wave' of users is starting out with ubuntu but some 'middle-aged' users did not have the .. 'luxury'. I started out with Slackware myself (can't remember what version, it was many a years ago) and it eventually worked out nicely. I even found it easier to use than RedHat in those days. (probably it even -was- easier to use). So, have a bit of confidence.

Misfit138

Misfit Emeritus

From: USA

Registered: 2006-11-27

Posts: 4,189

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

Sniffles, I have been confusing Magrathea with Arimathea.
This whole time I had been associating your whereabouts with Biblical history...and not Douglas Adams' books.
Anyway, carry on, or you'll be late...as in the late Dent Arthur Dent..

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fuscia

Member

Registered: 2008-04-21

Posts: 398

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

My dog is better than that orange at being an orange!

Alas, fuscia: don't be so sure about you not having been able to go from Windows to Arch. Sure this 'new wave' of users is starting out with ubuntu but some 'middle-aged' users did not have the .. 'luxury'. I started out with Slackware myself (can't remember what version, it was many a years ago) and it eventually worked out nicely. I even found it easier to use than RedHat in those days. (probably it even -was- easier to use). So, have a bit of confidence.

i'm fully confident that i wouldn't have been able to go from windows to arch. i wouldn't have understood a word of the beginner's tutorial. i suppose i could have struggled with it, but i really just wouldn't have bothered. like learning a programming language, i suppose i could, but i've only made it to "hello, world" once and then i thought, "what tf am i doing this for?" and quit. i just didn't need it. i came to arch because it seemed like more of what i wanted from linux, but that was in the frame of having used ubuntu for two years.

sniffles

Member

Registered: 2008-01-23

Posts: 275

Re: yes...it is better than ubuntu

Yeah that's all fine and good but the point is you agree that my dog is a better orange right?