KDE 4.1 Official Release

ozar · 2008-07-08 03:59:07

There was some talk here on the forums a few months ago that KDE 4.1 would be going into "extra" shortly after it is offically released toward the end of this month. With all the adversity that's been going on between the KDE developers, end-users, and various journalists, I was wondering if that's still the case, or if any of you have heard differently about its status within the Arch community?

Just kind of curious about what to expect.

Thanks!

kensai · 2008-07-08 04:11:03

The developer in charge of this might be more useful than I can be, but what I can tell you so far is that it is very unlikely it will be in extra _shortly_ after it is released. Maybe it will take a bit of time, but we guess this might be the version that will make it into extra.

ozar · 2008-07-09 16:22:28

Thanks for the reply, kensai.

Yeah, I don't blame the Arch KDE dev/packager at all for being reluctant to rush it to 'extra'. I've been running various versions of the KDE4.x svn builds and the beta builds that were released and while they are fun to play with, they all still seem to need lots of work when compared to the classic KDE 3.5.9 series.

Hey, I read elsewhere today that KDE 3.5.10 is due to come out in the near future, so maybe that will satisfy lots of folks for a bit longer.

Thanks again for the reply.

Last edited by ozar (2008-07-09 16:23:36)

funkyou · 2008-07-09 17:00:23

Well, 4.1 (4.0.85 exactly) runs very stable for me, apart from some very minor annoyances... We are currently building the first RC and i dont think that it will be worse, more the opposite The only real drawback in the 4.0 series was a missing kdepim and the state of plasma, but now these two issues have been solved. IMHO plasma now provides nearly all functionalities of a KDE3 desktop, except some minor stuff like hiding panels...

I am just asking myself about the "when" too, because our (KDEmod) packages depend on KDE in the Arch repos... And for us, KDE 4(.1) is definitely usable, we are building it every few days and it has evolved a _lot_ over the last weeks... It there wasnt this "packaging issue" we currently have, it would be my default desktop...

I have the slight impression that the devs are maybe a bit unsure about the "migration" etc from KDE3 to KDE4 (dont get me wrong here, no offence), and i think that much stuff could have been done in advance, like renaming all kde3 packages to kde$PKG3 for example...

So, what i would do in this particular situation is:

1. Move all KDE3 packages to kde$PKG3, e.g. kdelibs3, kdebase3 (just like with qt3 some time ago) and let it stay in /opt
2. This will work fine for KDE4 once its there, but not for KDE3 because it will interfer with KDE4 (we already experienced that issue). openSUSE has some patches for KDE3 to solve that, they basically make KDE3 "ignore" all stuff from KDE4...
2. Update dependencies and rebuild/repackage all packages that depend on KDE3
3. Provide KDE4, many people are waiting for it

Maybe the Arch devs could just do the KDE3 renaming as a start and take their time with KDE4, this step alone would help us a _lot_, as we could add proper provides and conflicts to our KDE3 and KDE4 packages again, and everyone would be happy for now...

I also dont think that a "full replacement strategy" will work out, because then we would have to wait another year or so, until everyone will be 100% satisfied with KDE4... These are also not the times of KDE2 -> KDE3, where KDE3 was a real (r)evolutionary step and everyone just wanted to have it, so i think that we cannot avoid providing both desktops instead of just doing the update from KDE3 to KDE4 and throw KDE3 away...

Of course i can be wrong here, so i am open for discussion And i would really like to see some "official statement" about this stuff...

kleverness · 2008-07-16 00:57:03

Hi! I'm new here. I'm willing to install Arch Linux on my EEE PC soon with a KDE 4.1 environment. I've been using KDE 4.1 svn in my Gentoo box and I found it very stable, so my plan was to use it on the mini-laptop with Arch Linux as soon as 4.1 final gets released.
So please, make 4.1 available in the repositories so I can do the migration as soon as posible.
Also, I'm a newbie on Arch so I don't want to mess with unofficial repositories.
Btw, 4.1 will be a GREAT release

Thanks!

dyscoria · 2008-07-16 07:45:46

Yer 4.1 is gonna be AMAZING! And I want it in the repos on the 29th when it comes out or i'm leaving arch! The world revolves around me!

ozar wrote:

There was some talk here on the forums a few months ago that KDE 4.1 would be going into "extra" shortly after it is offically released toward the end of this month. With all the adversity that's been going on between the KDE developers, end-users, and various journalists, I was wondering if that's still the case, or if any of you have heard differently about its status within the Arch community?

Ahem, well Pierre Schmitz's git repo is still up (http://archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev … 06368.html) but it hasn't been updated to more recent beta releases. I'm pretty certain though that 4.1 will make it to extra. The adversity you speak of is mostly unfounded. Bunch of lousy attention seeking journalists fueling talks of forking the project. According to http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Is_KDE_4.1_for_you%3F kde4.1 is basically usable for everybody that doesn't hate folderview, so basically everyone except the bloggers that are fueling the criticism.

Last edited by dyscoria (2008-07-16 07:54:45)

staple · 2008-07-16 15:04:21

i hope 4.1 is in the official repos soon after its release. why not let the user decide if they want to run the decidedly not-quite-ready software? arch has always had two things going for it: bleeding edge software and a KISS policy. give us vanilla kde 4.1!

attila · 2008-07-16 18:11:50

I can understand if no one want to hear this But i hope kde 4.x goes in the official repos until all is ready because i don't want to use a 4.x/3.5 mix.

Rokixz · 2008-07-16 18:18:45

Svn debug version is quiet stable for me, I fakin love this DE

staple · 2008-07-16 18:21:47

attila wrote:

I can understand if no one want to hear this But i hope kde 4.x goes in the official repos until all is ready because i don't want to use a 4.x/3.5 mix.

why? i was quite fine using a gtk1/2 mix for awhile. maybe my little hp is just a supercomputer but it can handle the qt4/3 libs side by side with relative ease...

ozar · 2008-07-16 18:30:20

attila wrote:

I can understand if no one want to hear this But i hope kde 4.x goes in the official repos until all is ready because i don't want to use a 4.x/3.5 mix.

Yep, I agree and don't care to mix them, either. If KDE4 isn't developed enough and stable enough to stand on its own, I won't use it at all.

attila · 2008-07-16 19:36:04

First to everyone: I say only my opinion but i don't want to start a new flamewar about this. I start using kde with 1.x and still enjoy it now at the moment with the actual stable 3.5.9 release.

Second: This blog [1] is in some points very critically but it explains very well why at the moment kde4 should not replace kde 3.5 in any distribution from my view. And if you look at the "11 Myths About KDE 4" [2] than you can see that a very often used thing as putting files or urls from the web browser anywhere on the desktop will not work before 4.2.

[1] http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/07 … tions.html
[2] http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?stor … 0131440951

staple wrote:
why? i was quite fine using a gtk1/2 mix for awhile. maybe my little hp is just a supercomputer but it can handle the qt4/3 libs side by side with relative ease...

You be right with what you say but my problem is that the most apps of kdepim be not ready at this moment and will be shipped as kde 3.5 apps.

My personal conclusion: Sorry to say but i take a look at kde4 on my arch64 test partition, in kvm with opensuse 11 and with the kde live cd but i never see the same stable and configurable level as at the moment with kde 3.5. I will have no problem with a separate repo but i don't want that a developer release (so calls very much kde devs their own work at the moment) will replace the stable release in extra.

funkyou · 2008-07-16 20:37:15

dyscoria wrote:

... kde4.1 is basically usable for everybody that doesn't hate folderview, so basically everyone except the bloggers that are fueling the criticism.

That brings it to the point, the best comment of the day for me

attila wrote:

... than you can see that a very often used thing as putting files or urls from the web browser anywhere on the desktop will not work before 4.2.

The emphasis lies on anywhere. Its possible, just not anywhere on the desktop But you can move the folderview applet anywhere on the desktop, isnt that enough for now

attila · 2008-07-16 20:56:21

funkyou wrote:

The emphasis lies on anywhere. Its possible, just not anywhere on the desktop But you can move the folderview applet anywhere on the desktop, isnt that enough for now

I know why i say "anywhere". This is one of the "little" reasons why i can live until 4.2 or later where the folderview sould can be the whole background. It sounds for me little bit crazy that i have to move the browser so long that i can see the only place where i can drag the url.

But because you be an expert for KDE: Do you really suggest to replace kde 3.5 before it get desupported with this version of KDE4? This is really only a question from me as an user to an expert as you without any plans to start a flame war. I ask it because i take a look at some kde4 versions but i never see it in the same way stable and/or configurable as 3.5.

And before anyone can misunderstood me, wich is even possible by my way to talk in english: At the moment i'm not a fan of a new KDE without a (transparent) kicker as in 3.5 and some little other things too but i'm only against replacing 3.5 in extra before it get desupported not against kde4.

staple · 2008-07-16 22:26:11

no one is saying to replace kde3 with kde4. that would be a disaster! how about just having both?

funkyou · 2008-07-16 23:53:11

attila wrote:

I know why i say "anywhere". This is one of the "little" reasons why i can live until 4.2 or later where the folderview sould can be the whole background. It sounds for me little bit crazy that i have to move the browser so long that i can see the only place where i can drag the url.

Well, to say it simple: KDE4 is new stuff with a different philosophy, so just learn how to use new features Of course the "classic" Desktop will be back, with 4.2... But for now, i dont think its something fatal or unusable...

attila wrote:

But because you be an expert for KDE: Do you really suggest to replace kde 3.5 before it get desupported with this version of KDE4? This is really only a question from me as an user to an expert as you without any plans to start a flame war. I ask it because i take a look at some kde4 versions but i never see it in the same way stable and/or configurable as 3.5.

The most obvious things missing from this release are imho:

- panel hiding
- extra apps (like amarok2) that havent seen a release until now, but will do relatively shortly

I have tested the RC quite extensively for a longer time, and yes, there are some small things missing, but i would definitely use it... Its absolutely stable for me, and so far i noticed only 3 minor bugs: 1. the buttons in the panel config thingie have some small refresh problems, 2. the systray and clock applets seem to take much more space than they should when they are alone in a panel, and 3. the logout dialog seems to have some redraw issues when not using composite... And i can live with that, compared to all the new stuff...

In terms of configurability: Please stop thinking like this would be KDE 3.5... As said, its new stuff with a different paradigm (that works out very well imho), and all the "old" features from KDE 3 will be there in time... KDE 4.1 is pretty much on par (and in many ways superior) to KDE 3.5, except some minor features...

And yes, i would replace it and keep some KDE3 apps in the repos until their KDE4 counterparts have been released, like amarok or kdesvn for example... Also notice that KDE4 is _much_ easier to build and maintain than KDE3, which would also be a factor for me...

attila wrote:

... At the moment i'm not a fan of a new KDE without a (transparent) kicker as in 3.5 and some little other things too ...

Well, we all have our small "missing pet features", mine was panel configurability which is perfect for me now... But these are no showstoppers imho, just small features which will be back, as said

staple wrote:

no one is saying to replace kde3 with kde4. that would be a disaster! how about just having both?

Having both would be possible, but maybe it would be too much work... I dont know how much Arch devs are using KDE, but i guess they have already a lot of other things to do with keeping our beloved distro rolling and rocking The only thing i can tell you about that, is that we will try to keep KDEmod3 alive as long as possible - especially when some people would step up and want to help us as this is a community effort - and that its not a big problem to make KDE3 and KDE4 working side-by-side, as you can already experience with KDEmod ...

And now i am just asking myself what the disaster would be...

mindfall · 2008-07-17 00:06:32

attila wrote:

funkyou wrote:
The emphasis lies on anywhere. Its possible, just not anywhere on the desktop But you can move the folderview applet anywhere on the desktop, isnt that enough for now
I know why i say "anywhere". This is one of the "little" reasons why i can live until 4.2 or later where the folderview sould can be the whole background. It sounds for me little bit crazy that i have to move the browser so long that i can see the only place where i can drag the url.

AFAIK it is already possible to run folderview "full screen"; A config file has to be edited for now. Problem is that then there is no wallpaper anymore for now. Only Kde 4.2 will make it possible to have fullscreen folderview + wallpaper.

ozar · 2008-07-17 00:16:51

I do enjoy playing with KDE4, but to me it still feels like beta (and sometimes alpha) software. I'm also really beginning to think that KDE4 might not be able to stand on its own at least until version 4.2 comes out, and maybe even later than that. I'll try 4.1 official when it's released though, before making any final judgment.

In the interim, I'll probably keep playing around with it. Bring it on!

mindfall · 2008-07-17 00:25:27

I think people really have high standards due to Kde 3's polishedness. Kde 4 is already as functional as Gnome, so from that point of view I'd say it's usable

kleverness · 2008-07-17 02:58:39

I had been using 4.1 from svn since early days and now I can asure that 4.1 rc1 is quite ready. There are a few minor bugs but it's perfectly usable. Indeed it's much better than many other desktop environments and on same aspects is far better than the 3.5.x.
Also, I don't get the folder view complain. For me, the folder view concept (and it's current implementation) is FAR better that old paradigm. I can have quick access to any file I want from any directory and many folders at the same time. Also, the file functionality is there. There isn't anything missing compared to normal files on desktop. You can drag files to and from the view and do any file operation you want.
So please, 4.1 may be not perfect but it's perfectly usable, a great release! The devs have clearly stated that this will be the first version ready for normal users

ozar · 2008-07-17 03:21:34

kleverness wrote:

The devs have clearly stated that this will be the first version ready for normal users

That's really very good news to hear.

I'm guessing then that means that all the various apps that have been working in KDE3 will also finally be available and working in KDE4.1?

For instance, I've not been able to get K3b to work properly in any of the svn builds or beta builds that I've tried over the last few months (I've not tried any rc builds, as of yet). The last time I checked, Konversation wasn't even ported to KDE4, yet. Of course, there are lots of other apps that would need to be available and working for KDE4 before it's "truly ready" for normal users, in my own opinion, anyway.

If it's really ready, I say bring it on!

tanis · 2008-07-17 03:43:43

@ozar: I don't think all the apps from KDE 3.5 are going to work fine in KDE 4.1. Things like amarok, k3b, digikam, ktorrent, yakuake, and a few more are in kde-extragear, and are not part of KDE 4.1 RC1, so probably won't be part of final 4.1 release.

ozar · 2008-07-17 04:13:44

Hi, tanis!

Thanks for that information.

If it's missing those apps and others, it's not really ready for the normal user in my own opinion. Of course, that doesn't mean that the normal user can't use it. In my 8 years of using Linux, I've always personally favored KDE over Gnome, but sadly that feeling has been slipping lately.

Hopefully it will all work out and truly be ready sooner rather than later.

tanis · 2008-07-17 04:20:52

Well, you could probably use those missing apps in versions from 3.5...
Or try SVN version of KDE 4, it's getting better too.

Plus, even without all those apps, KDE 4.1 has similar functionality to Gnome ;P

ozar · 2008-07-17 04:39:44

Hi, tanis... no, I'm not at all likely to mix 3.5 with 4.1 because it gets under my skin that I would need two different versions of KDE just to have a fully functioning desktop environment. However, I might return to the 3.5.x series and stick with that until KDE4 is truly able to stand on its own.

I really am looking forward to it hitting the 'extra' repo once it's really ready.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-07-08 03:59:07

KDE 4.1 Official Release

#2 2008-07-08 04:11:03

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

#3 2008-07-09 16:22:28

Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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Re: KDE 4.1 Official Release

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