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#1 2004-08-18 01:20:36

punkrockguy318
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From: New Jersey
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Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

The wiki is pretty disorganized...  There are FAQs, HOWTOs and Guides.  When people need help, they usually don't know if they need a howto, a guide, or a FAQ.  The three should be merged into one, and organized by Hardware, Multimedia, Kernel, and stuff like that.   What do you think?


If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.   1 Corinthians 13:2

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#2 2004-08-18 03:46:24

dp
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From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

i think you are absolutely right!


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#3 2004-08-18 03:53:06

sarah31
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

i was thinking of making a wiki doc about organizing a wiki. but i am far too lazy to do that.


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#4 2004-08-18 03:54:15

hypermegachi
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Registered: 2004-07-25
Posts: 311

Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

yeah, when i go on, i just click view all wiki content or something like that which shows every article

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#5 2004-08-18 06:01:07

rasat
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

punkrockguy318 wrote:

The wiki is pretty disorganized...

This means Wiki is now ready for the next stage.... having enough docs for an organized Wkisite. The current doc structure was designed more for the contributors than a site for users to search.

How about keeping one place with a simple doc structure for contributors to post. One separate/organized place for the users? In the new place admin will link the contributed docs in pre-assigned categories, same how the WikiContent page has been managed.

Any suggestion how an organized doc strucsture should be?
Suggestions for the HomePage?

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#6 2004-08-18 06:56:59

campylobacter
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From: Austria
Registered: 2004-04-12
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

- Installation
- ArchLinux System (pacman,...)
- System Administration
- Development
- Frequently Asked Questions

And we should use the Guide XML Syntax. wink

campy

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#7 2004-08-18 12:57:04

Moo-Crumpus
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From: Hessen / Germany
Registered: 2003-12-01
Posts: 1,441

Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

I don't think it shall be sorted this way. It should be sorted by usage topics.

....

· Database
· MySQL
· Install
· Config
· PostGreSQL
· Install
· Config
· FAQ
· Media
· RIP
· AudioCD
· RipperX
· Install
· DVD
· DVD::RIP
· Install
· Config
· FAQ
· MIDI


Next to this, it should have an index! Links to mysql, f.e.  Got it?


Frumpus addict
[mu'.krum.pus], [frum.pus]

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#8 2004-08-18 17:16:37

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

rasat wrote:

How about keeping one place with a simple doc structure for contributors to post. One separate/organized place for the users?

Any suggestion how an organized doc strucsture should be?
Suggestions for the HomePage?

I don't think it is necessary to have these two sections. If the docs are well organized, then it should be easy for contributors to know where to post them. If they end up going in the wrong place, it's not hard to move them. I know that you (rasat) keep an eye on the recent changes to make sure things look good, so you can just move the occasional new doc as needed.

So basically, just organize it better and let the docs come to the users.

One thing discussing how it should be organized, categorizing things is good, but there should also be a sort of chronological order to the categories. For example, people will install first, then learn how to use pacman, then set up hardware, then set up basic software, then set up desktop software, then set up server software, then set up kernel, and finally create their own packages for the bit of software they don't have (ie: as in the desktop Arch wiki guide).

Dusty

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#9 2004-08-18 17:18:15

Dusty
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

campylobacter wrote:

And we should use the Guide XML Syntax. wink

Go back to Gentoo.  For unofficial docs, we use the wiki syntax, for official docs we use a standardized form of XHTML: http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/ … guide.html

Dusty

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#10 2004-08-18 20:54:25

xerxes2
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From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

I think the wiki is pretty good as it is.
Change it carefully......


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#11 2004-08-18 21:15:55

campylobacter
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From: Austria
Registered: 2004-04-12
Posts: 60
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

Dusty wrote:
campylobacter wrote:

And we should use the Guide XML Syntax. wink

Go back to Gentoo.  For unofficial docs, we use the wiki syntax, for official docs we use a standardized form of XHTML: http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/ … guide.html

Dusty

Yes, I know that the docs must be in XHTML.
I wrote a little german How-To in Guide XML, and the output is valid XHTML 1.0 Strict, with the ArchLinux docu style.

Demo

With an XML online editor, everyone is able to write a doku. But I know, nobody wan´t it, so I build it only for me. wink

campy

P.S.: I don´t use gentoo, ArchLinux is the only one!

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#12 2004-08-18 23:18:22

Dusty
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

campylobacter wrote:

I wrote a little german How-To in Guide XML, and the output is valid XHTML 1.0 Strict, with the ArchLinux docu style.

With an XML online editor, everyone is able to write a doku. But I know, nobody wan´t it, so I build it only for me. wink

I originally designed the Arch docstyles to be similar to guide-xml. I was thinking of making an XSLT for it, but it didn't seem worth the effort (a lot of things don't seem worth the effort to me these days...) However, if you've got one, feel free to share it. smile

Dusty

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#13 2004-08-19 04:40:26

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

I really like pink chick's suggested layout.


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#14 2004-08-19 05:36:01

punkrockguy318
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From: New Jersey
Registered: 2004-02-15
Posts: 705
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

sarah31 wrote:

I really like pink chick's suggested layout.

]

As do I.  Actually i really like anything but what we have now smile


If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.   1 Corinthians 13:2

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#15 2004-08-19 07:10:58

campylobacter
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From: Austria
Registered: 2004-04-12
Posts: 60
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

Dusty wrote:

I originally designed the Arch docstyles to be similar to guide-xml. I was thinking of making an XSLT for it, but it didn't seem worth the effort (a lot of things don't seem worth the effort to me these days...) However, if you've got one, feel free to share it. smile
Dusty

Yes, you can download the file here: XSL-File

campy

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#16 2004-08-19 16:06:46

Dusty
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

Thanks. I'll show it to Dennis and we'll probably add a copy to the docwriting guide for those that choose to use it, as long as you don't mind?

Dusty

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#17 2004-08-21 04:09:31

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

I also like Pink Chick's model. I have made one temporal page trying to apply the model. Any help would be appreciated:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NewWikiDocStructure

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#18 2004-08-21 04:30:08

Dusty
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

Hmmm... I'm not sure that's going to work; what do you do with combo pages (Apache PHP and MySQL or Kernel compile in ABS) -- list them in multiple places?

It looks like it's going to take a lot of space, visually. That means it will still be hard to locate stuff. On the one hand, everything should be within the "three click limit" of the home wiki page, but on the other hand, each page can't be too cluttered...

Dusty

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#19 2004-08-21 06:36:46

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

Dusty wrote:

It looks like it's going to take a lot of space, visually. That means it will still be hard to locate stuff.

That's true. The page is only a draft getting to know what docs we have and how to adjust the model. Now when it was brought up, we can also see if any multitopic docs need to be split.

How about splitting the structure into three pages:
1. Home Page
2. Topic Index Page (divided in topic categories)
3. Topic Content Pages

HOME ---> INDEX ---> CONTENT

Official Install Guide
Arch Linux WHERETO

WikiContent    ---> Sound      ---> Alsa
                                    FAQ
                    NetWork    ---> Apache, PHP & MySQL
                               ---> ppp, kppp, 2.6 kernel
                               ---> Static IP and DHCP
                                    FAQ
                    Kernel     ---> Kernel compile in ABS
                               ---> Ati Radeon & Kernel 2.6
                                    FAQ

Wiki Functions
Wiki Docs
Wiki Contacts

How the temporal "NewWikiDocStructure" page will be divided we can discuss. Lets first put all topic links in one page to get more ideas about the final structure and divition.

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#20 2004-08-21 16:22:46

Dusty
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

I think that will work well.  Another thing; how well does the search function in the wiki work? I've never used it since I'm pretty familiar with how the wiki is set up.  A good search function may be at least as important as a good overall layout; google thinks so for gmail.  Once the wiki gets too full, categories won't help anymore, searching will be the way to go.

More than one way to find a page is the best way to go... Is it possible to index a site-wide google search specific to the wiki?  google has the best search algorithms, of course, but I don't know if it can index on data stored in a database like that...

Dusty

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#21 2004-08-23 17:45:13

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

Dusty wrote:

Another thing; how well does the search function in the wiki work?

It seems quite efficient.... does both title and text search.
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/FindPage

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#22 2004-08-25 10:16:14

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

The new Wiki doc structure is ready. Still needs some fine-tuning and open for any changes.
http://wiki.archlinux.org/

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#23 2004-09-02 07:02:46

longhornxtreme
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Registered: 2004-07-10
Posts: 131

Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

I still believe that the Wiki needs to be laid out better...

The whereto, faq's and howto's should all be able to be seen on one page... or split apart into generic categories such as hardware, multimedia etc... There's just too much good information on a subject that a person has to check three different areas instead of just one general area. 

There is ALOT of GREAT information in the Wiki that i've made extensive use of in my migration to Arch about a month ago... Not only has it helped me get a stable desktop up and running it has really helped me learn alot about using *nix in general. 

It still needs to be better organized... I'd help but I don't know any wiki syntax... nor do I think I'd reorganize the Wiki into something that we all could reach a consensus on...

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#24 2004-09-09 08:49:18

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

longhornxtreme wrote:

I still believe that the Wiki needs to be laid out better...

Sorry for late reply. I suggest you post an example in wiki (or in this forum) what you have in mind. Its easier to discuss when there is something visual.

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#25 2004-09-09 19:25:54

Dusty
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Re: Wiki: disorganized / help finding new wiki

It is impossible to put all the information in one place.  That's why I suggest the search feature.

THe HOWTOs section is set up nicely now rasat, nice work.  I'd suggest that the 'Guides' section be renamed to something, maybe 'general info'. People should realize they don't have to look there for anything that is related to a problem; the guides section seems to contain just overviews and such.

I'm intrigued by the idea of including WHERETO links with the others... perhaps each category should have an 'external links' section instead of including these links in another doc.  Actually, this is a good idea. I'll start on it when I get home. in a week or so.

I'd say that the front page needs to have the "wikiindex" page more prominently linked. For some reason people seem to be overlooking it. They say "there's no way to have all the info in one spot", but all the info IS in one spot on the wiki index.

Its very frustrating to have people complaining about not being able to find information because they are too lazy to figure out where it is.  Suggestions are welcome, but complaints hinder more than help. Be glad you weren't here 9 months ago when I started using Arch. There wasn't any information at all.  Google knows all.

You can search the wiki using google instead of the local search engine, if you prefer by entering the search terms, followed by site:wiki.archlinux.org in the google search terms.

Dusty

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